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The Good Wife Season 3 - Page 3

post #61 of 177
Thread Starter 

Adam, I agree with you on the horror of evil people.  Alicia and the Minister had both agreed earlier that they opposed the death penalty - a noble stance that I know she believes in.  And, they've had cases where overturning the death penalty really meant something to Alicia.   But this was a real test of her beliefs.   The person being executed was unapologetically evil..   He had murdered several girls and had an ideal upbringing.  He liked torturing his family and those around him because it amused him.

 

It's what she said was "a struggle".   While she doesn't believe in the death penalty, I doubt she will mourn the loss of that criminal.   And it pointed out the problems with the death penalty for Alicia.. if THIS guy was the poster child for the Death Penalty instead of someone with a questionable conviction or lack of competence, would she be as stern in her anti-death penalty view?

 

I also loved the politician story, who thought the photos taken in college were "funny" and then they became a big deal.  I admit, I laughed at the photos too.  But I realize that this is what we're into in the future.. politicians or people who may want to be politicians who are going to have to live super-guarded life just to make sure a photo of them in the wrong place never pops up, because it all lives on in facebook.  

 

Eli's wife still persuing a run is going to crush her.  They didn't go through it in the meeting, but he has to pull her aside and say "the fact that you had an extra marital affair with someone in the Bin Laden family while you were married to a jewish-American is POISON.."   That storyline is a bit silly, but you know it has to come up.

post #62 of 177

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt View Post
Pursuing Zach has the advantage of irritating Eli without the hard work of dating a communist or some other equally self-righteous schmuck.


And also still getting a monosyllabic first name!

 

 

Ooh...that grandma! Jackie is written like a great villain: Vile to an outsider but based on not on being mustache-twirling evil, but wholly sensible from her own Peter-centric perspective.

 

 

Great episode through and through. And I really like the new ASA..who may or may not be a match for Kalinda's manipulatins.

post #63 of 177
After the speech by Linda Emond's terrific judge character at the end, I went back and watched the drone sequence at the beginning. We clearly see the intel guys at Langley circle the minor and ID the mosque a block away. But then it cuts to the Sgt's screen, and none of that made it through on time. Essentially, from what I can tell, the defense's case was dead on and simply wasn't believed by the jury. It happens plenty in civilian court too, but it does make the judge's speech ring hollow. There's something deeply wrong about the fact that a private consultant's computer algorithm determines what is legal death and what is murder. Not just for the innocents on the ground who are sentenced to death by a mathematical formula, but for the operatives carrying out their orders in good faith who will spend years in a jail cell because the math didn't quite add up right. Acceptable casualties have always been a part of war, but soldiers in battle didn't have a PhD from Lockheed or some other contractor second guessing their every move.

And the return of Wendy Scott-Carr, the woman I love to hate. She's very Dolores Umbridge-like. There's a sadistic element to her; she knows the charges against Will Gardner aren't true. And she knows that everybody knows that they aren't true. It gives her a certain pleasure, the thought that she can probably bring a successful prosecution anyway. She's so perfectly amoral it makes my skin crawl. She has nothing against Will Gardner. But she knows Peter Florrick does. So instead of doing what she was hired to do, she does what she knows Peter really wanted to do but couldn't get away with. And she's confident he will reward her for it.

Which isn't to say Jackie is any better. Her intentions may be, but every time she stepped into that apartment after Alicia kicked Peter out, she was looking for evidence to justify her new found opinion of Alicia. She'd be sad, if she weren't so dangerous.
post #64 of 177

Beautifully written, Adam. And you're spot-on with every point you make. When you've got a series this rich in character and substance, it's something worth writing about.

post #65 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH. View Post

Beautifully written, Adam. And you're spot-on with every point you make. When you've got a series this rich in character and substance, it's something worth writing about.
Yes, I agree as well. When Wendy Scott-Carr appeared, I could feel my skin crawl.

This was a rare episode where our protagonists lost in two of the plots during the episode, though Alicia appears to have won against Jackie for the moment, with her son getting a nice benefit in that battle.
post #66 of 177
Eli's subplot was the funniest to me.

Did Grace refer to Jackie was a beyotch? Hah.
post #67 of 177
Thread Starter 

I don't know if Alicia will win in that battle or not.. earlier in the season it was pointed out to her to avoid those kind of expenses because it would allow Peter to potentially claim he needed spousal support in a divorce.   That's what I love about this show, it's so tightly written that small moments from before can come back and play out in my head as it moves on.

 

What I think about most, though, is the confrontation between Alicia and Jackie.    I think I liked it on two different levels.  First, Alicia finally was pushed into breaking it to the kids that Jackie was NOT on their side, and she did it in the most straightforward and honest way:  "I believe Jackie wants your father to have sole custody".    Now, Jackie isn't just the annoying grandmother, but the children view her as a further fracture in their household; Jackie isn't working to try and fix the relationship between their parents, she's working to change their family permanently.   That can't sit well with the daughter who has been hoping for reconciliation.   I think that's a big part of what led to the "what a bitch" comment.   But Second, the moment at the doorway was a bitter sword for Alicia: she basically announced to Jackie that the kids were old enough, that she trusted them.   They are both high schoolers, both of them are on their way to being adults, and she has to put some faith in them.   When Jackie announces the "crimes of the children"  "You're son is dating a jew!" "She locks herself in her room with her tutor!" it smacked of Jackie's desperation and her faked up morals; she can be outraged at the silly, but the real moral lapses of her son are forgiven with a shrug - and they might be forgiven in part because she desires to be in the spotlight, and partly because she just never liked Alicia.

 

As to the storyline of the soldier.. you're right Adam.. it made me go back and watch the beginning again.   What that storyline really showed us though was the power of one witness who was willing to lie to destroy someone.   It was fairly obvious to me that the person she worked with - the one who didn't like women - used this as a way to get rid of her.   The change in her world be damned.   While we the audience knew the "TRUTH" the Jury only knew the "truth" as provided by a witness who was unscrupulous.  For us, the audience, we know that to be true.   But if I were on a jury, and the only witnesses present say "there was no lag, she knew.."   I think that's what made that case brilliantly written.  It was a loss.   But it highlighted an issue that is before the Supreme Court right now.. why we put so much stock in eyewitnesses.   And why was there no other way to check or establish these things as fact?

 

I understand we as an audience disliked the results because we knew the truth; but if we were on the jury, knowing only what they knew.. and that's justice.  Wendy Scott Carr is trying to make political hay with Peter, because she sees him as someone who would like to leap to another office.   The DA is a stepping stone - he has a goal as a senator, governor.. somewhere.   She has no problem jumping on his coattails.. and to do that, she has to crush Wil Gardner along the way, so be it.   How that all shakes out is going to be.. interesting.    She's one of those characters who they give such a positive backstory with but she's played so effectively as a real bruiser who gets away with it with a nice smile.   It's a great, juicy role and it's played very well.

 

I also like the back and forth between Kalinda and Cary.. and all those in between.

post #68 of 177
Quote:
she can be outraged at the silly, but the real moral lapses of her son are forgiven with a shrug - and they might be forgiven in part because she desires to be in the spotlight, and partly because she just never liked Alicia.
I don't think Jackie's actions come from a selfish place, at least not directly. The thing about her is that her entire world revolves around Peter. He was her Golden Child. The sun has always shone where his feet step and his shit smells like roses. When Peter's world started crumbling, Jackie denied everything she could as a conspiracy, and simply refused to process everything that she couldn't deny. Peter is simply incapable of doing any wrong in her eyes.

Jackie's also of the old school generation that blames the wife for the husband's infidelity. Obviously, Peter wouldn't have strayed if Alicia had been doing her wifely duties and satisfying him. The understanding of what sex addiction is and how it manifests is completely beyond Jackie; if she thinks it exists at all, it's certainly only for the little people and not something her son would be afflicted with.

So in that context, Jackie blames Alicia for the scandal that forced Peter from office and blames Alicia for the disintegration of the marriage. The first is an irrational result of an old woman's prejudices and her blinding loyalty to her son. The second is perfectly logical, given that she doesn't know about Peter's affair with Kalinda. She thinks Alicia's affair with Will triggered the split, rather than being a byproduct of the split.
post #69 of 177

Indeed. Alicia is putting Peter's career in jeopardy with her separation. Jackie cares only for her son -- and so for her own self image -- and Alicia be (is) damned for interfering with that.

 

I do not understand the power play between Kalinda and the ASA. Who's got the upper hand in this relationship? To what end?

post #70 of 177
No comments on Diane’s ultimatum to Will? It had to be done, the relationship is unethical and needs to end and in the long run it can only harm Alicia’s career.

I really enjoyed that Alicia put Jackie in her place but really, the whole Jackie character is so clichéd it’s sad the writers took that track to develop the character. It’s just lazy boiler plate character creation.
post #71 of 177
Let's hope they drop the Jackie character, waste of time, but they'll probably just keep her around to continue meddling in things.

I for one am finding this season much easier to follow. Still great writing, but last season was so deep and complicated it was hard to keep up. Had to watch episodes several times to hear dialogue and truly under stand what had happened.

Had a feeling the Wil/Alicia romance would come out, those things are virtually impossible to hide, especially with the higher ups in the company.
post #72 of 177
Thread Starter 

I think the question that's going to sit with us until next week is:  does she stay with the firm?  Or did Will let her go?  

post #73 of 177

I'd be very surprised if she was let go. I do think if Canning hadn't snooped in her bag, she might seriously have entertained his offer.

post #74 of 177
I think she definitely stays with the firm. The show follows Alicia, and while picking up Fox as a regular would be a hell of a win, shedding all of the Lockhart/Gardner people as regulars wouldn't be a worthwhile exchange. Josh Charles and Christine Baranski are nearly as essential to the DNA of the show as Julianna Margulies is.

The promo for this episode did exactly what the best promos do: entice the viewer to watch while heightening the audience's expectation rather than confining the audience's expectation. With that shot of Alicia embracing Peter lingering in my mind, I thought for sure Grace was going to be either kidnapped or dead. What a tense bit of television. It was also great to see Alicia and Peter stripped of themselves, operating totally in parent mode. Their own issues and problems and rivalries just disappeared off the table until Grace was found. And Peter is, strangely enough, exactly the kind of man you want around in that situation. He'll get it done.

It was wonderful that Kalinda was the one to track Grace down. She remains loyal to Alicia even though Alicia still seethes at her very presence. It was interesting that she told Grace not to tell Alicia that she was the one who found her. She had an easy in to get back in Alicia's good graces, but she chose to preserve the selflessness of the act. It was uncharacteristic of Kalinda, which made it good television. (I also never realized how small Archie Panjabi is; Makenzie Vega isn't a particularly tall girl, and Grace was about the same height in flats as Kalinda was in those stiletto heels of hers.)

Grace Rex, who plays the slighted Martha, reminds way too much of a younger Melanie Lynskey. Every time she's on screen I have "Two and a Half Men" flashbacks.

I would look for Wendy Scott-Carr's overzealous prosecution to recoil back on her. Just can't stand the woman. It would be really easy to go over-the-top villainous with the role, but Anika Noni Rose is pitch perfect and never colors outside the lines. The malice is subtle, and just peeks out from the corners from time to time. When Cary was listing the faults of his P.I. buddy, all of which also apply to Wendy Scott-Carr, you could tell she was savoring the comparison. I think she actively enjoys being resented.

And John Michael Higgins plays a self-satisfied genial douche bag better than anybody.
post #75 of 177
It was just weird seeing "Deb" from Dexter on a Sunday night on a different show.
post #76 of 177

Wow. Fantastic episode.

 

For once, I got a prediction right (to my wife). When we learned Grace had left with a man, I figured it was with her Christian group (and that the phone was 'butt dialed' and it was fundamentally lack of communication). But the process...that was some masterful TV.

 

My life's experience, my understanding of history, is that baptism is generally a public affair. There are other ways to read the event, but that baptism played as creepy to me. But it can also be understood as Grace realizing she had - is -- accepting Christ as savior and from that an immediate desire for believer's baptism. In some faith traditions baptism is necessary for salvation. And even if not seen as necessary, it's *the* physical signifier in many (most?) Protestant lines. I said before I was wasn't crazy about Grace's faith storyline. This new thread is deeply interesting to me.


Edited by DaveF - 12/5/11 at 6:47pm
post #77 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF 
My life's experience, my understanding of history, is that baptism is generally a public affair.
You have to factor in who her parents are. Most Christian parents have their children baptized. Depending on the denomination, that can either be fairly soon after birth or it can be years later. Either way, it's coming from the parents' faith rather than the child's. I'm actually surprised that Zach and Grace weren't baptized, if only because I thought it would be obligatory for a WASP politician even in Chicago.

But now Grace has a father who may or may not still be devout to his Christian rebirth, but whose behavior she strongly disapproves of. I can certainly understand why she wouldn't want him to be there. And Alicia's leery about the whole idea of religious devotion from her children. While she's giving Grace the room to figure it out herself, it clearly makes her uncomfortable. I can certainly understand why she didn't feel comfortable inviting mom, either. And her Jewish tutor probably wouldn't get anything out of tagging along. I would have figured Grace's evangelical friend would have gone, the one who proselytized Miranda Cosgrove's character last season. But then there wouldn't have been a story.
post #78 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt View Post

You have to factor in who her parents are. Most Christian parents have their children baptized. Depending on the denomination, that can either be fairly soon after birth or it can be years later. Either way, it's coming from the parents' faith rather than the child's. I'm actually surprised that Zach and Grace weren't baptized, if only because I thought it would be obligatory for a WASP politician even in Chicago.
But now Grace has a father who may or may not still be devout to his Christian rebirth, but whose behavior she strongly disapproves of. I can certainly understand why she wouldn't want him to be there. And Alicia's leery about the whole idea of religious devotion from her children. While she's giving Grace the room to figure it out herself, it clearly makes her uncomfortable. I can certainly understand why she didn't feel comfortable inviting mom, either. And her Jewish tutor probably wouldn't get anything out of tagging along. I would have figured Grace's evangelical friend would have gone, the one who proselytized Miranda Cosgrove's character last season. But then there wouldn't have been a story.


Even within a youth-oriented decision, and sometimes particularly, it's a thing. People are there to witness, rejoice, celebrate. Not necessarily family-and-church event, but the friends and fellow believers from the new "family" (be it summer camp, or high school youth group, etc.).

 

I agree with your insights; they color all of this. Grace has pressures around faith many mid-westerners don't. And, especially following her last conversation with her mom about "worries" and bad things happening -- and cutting out distractions. Being baptized could be Grace's way of cutting out the distraction of being unsettled in her faith and committing to a direction, with the resultant peace of purpose.

 

But still, the image of the charismatic leader individually baptizing a young woman without anyone knowing...sets off my creep alarms until I understand it better. And that scene allowed for a lot of interpretation. There was a distance to it, a quiet. It was a brief event, we understood; a quick hour Grace thought know one who notice. A personal action of sincere faith by a teen caught in her family's maelstrom. Of the teacher that could be guiding her to peace, forgiveness. But also of the man tending to a young, underage vulnerable woman without anyone knowing.  I'm very looking forward to this story developing.

post #79 of 177
The reason for the mistrial was so silly, but that's the social networking world we live in now. Thanks, Zuckerberg!

Would someone please bitch-slap that Wendy Scott-Carr woman, I really hate every second she's on the screen.
post #80 of 177
Thread Starter 

It was a technicality.   But it was obvious to the lawyers that something very wrong happened in that jury room.. and you use whatever means (legally) to get to the right conclusion from their viewpoint.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun View Post

The reason for the mistrial was so silly, but that's the social networking world we live in now. Thanks, Zuckerberg!
Would someone please bitch-slap that Wendy Scott-Carr woman, I really hate every second she's on the screen.


 

post #81 of 177
I've never liked Will more than I did in that final scene on the basketball court. He is being offered a deal that takes substantial heat off himself in exchange for tattling on a man he hates-borderline-loathes. At the same time, he knows the investigation against Peter is merely sour grapes on the part of the special prosecutor, who's seeking to dredge up anything she can to overturn the decision of the voters who weighed her candidacy against a convicted felon and decided they were better off with the felon. He had every reason in the world to take that deal, except it wasn't the right thing to do. He took a moral stand. Dan Rydell would have been proud.

I love Kurt Fuller in just about everything, but I really loved him as the judge in tonight's episode. Here is a smart, honest, unbiased judge of the sort you want. And everything about this case basically highlights the ugly side of the legal profession. The dance between him and Wendy Scott-Carr was a thing of beauty. She's used to intimidating through implication. He didn't let her get away with it. Cards on the table. It definitely put him on guard, but he refused to play her game.

Loved Alicia going to bat for Kalinda after finding out that Kalinda was the one who found Grace. The scene in Cary's office was executed perfectly.

Interesting that Diane's trying to keep Alicia closer to home. Is it just about keeping her away from Will, or does she have something more up her sleeve?

I wonder if Peter threatening the prep school headmistress is going to come back and bite him on the ass. Growing up, I had an uncle in local politics. It got some family members off some speeding tickets when the officer saw the last name on the driver's license. But none of us ever name dropped, because that would have hurt him and not us if it got around. There are certain unwritten privileges to public office, whether there should be or not. But the noisier you have to be about exercising them, the less valuable they are. Setting aside the honest politicians who wouldn't play that game in the first place, the smart ones know that sometimes it's better to take the loss and move on.
post #82 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun View Post

Would someone please bitch-slap that Wendy Scott-Carr woman, I really hate every second she's on the screen.
I'm am really hoping she gets her just rewards before the end of the season. Hating her so much now will make it ever so sweet.
post #83 of 177

So many smart, interesting confrontations in last night's episode, and every one of them was executed faultlessly.

 

Could someone refresh my memory? Why do Alicia and Peter want to put their kids in private school? I thought they had adjusted to going to public school.

post #84 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH. View Post

Could someone refresh my memory? Why do Alicia and Peter want to put their kids in private school? I thought they had adjusted to going to public school.
I think it's a reaction to Grace disappearing with the Christian guy in the previous episode. It make the public schools feel too exposed for their tastes.
post #85 of 177
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt View Post

I think it's a reaction to Grace disappearing with the Christian guy in the previous episode. It make the public schools feel too exposed for their tastes.


It's more then that.   Remember, Alicia was concerned because her firm is party to a case where a witness was murdered, and where the client (who I assume lost) blames a lot of people.. so when she first called Peter last week, she asked him point blank if this was mixed up with that case.. and he told her no, no it couldn't be.   Now that Peter is putting people away and alicia is ont he defense, there is more chance they will have 'upset' people at them at some point.. and that was the fear that got to Alicia, not the Christian kid, was the fact her kid was abducted by that crazy.   While it worked out, it was the sign to them that there was too much risk in them at public schools

post #86 of 177

Thanks for the explanations. It does make complete sense.

post #87 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattCR View Post

It's more then that.   Remember, Alicia was concerned because her firm is party to a case where a witness was murdered, and where the client (who I assume lost) blames a lot of people.. so when she first called Peter last week, she asked him point blank if this was mixed up with that case.. and he told her no, no it couldn't be.
Good point, I completely forgot about that facet to it. I think the guy in question was the one that Colin Sweeney (Dylan Baker's psychopath character) caught on the wire admitting to arranging a hit. And you're definitely right the Alicia and Peter aren't exactly kindergarten teachers. They deal will some really nasty people in very confrontational ways regularly.
post #88 of 177

Another superb episode.

 

Wendy Scott Carr -- is so deliciously loathsome. She is an exceptional villain, because her actions make complete sense from her perspective. She's smart, friendly, and talks like quicksilver. She reminds me of Magneto: deeply dangerous, yet so reasonable about it.

 

 

If I understand Alicia, she's forbade Grace from being a Christian. There is a lot of potentially interesting story here. This sub-thread has the potential for its own series (and would certainly die a quick death under the weight of a million ignorant, if heartfelt, protests by those that can't bear the notion of a smart show about flawed people with imperfect faith.)

 

 

It's also impressive how The Good Wife is pivoting to being less of Alicia and Peter, and also less about Alica, and more about the ensemble. And pulling it off. I like Alicia, and her centerpiece, but I really enjoy every other story about Wil, Dianne, Cary, and the kids.

post #89 of 177
Terrific episode. Just a celebration of the show's supporting cast and excellent day players from beginning to end. I loved the genteel older process server, loved the David Lee/Eli Gold duel that wasn't, Cary being given the perfect opportunity to tank Alicia's career as well as Lockhart/Gardner and being the better man, and (as always) loved every Elsbeth Tascioni moment. The contrast between the complete and utter chaos that genuinely surrounds her day-to-day life and her sly but vicious attack strategies is endlessly fascinating to me. Having her be Will's lawyer is genius, because it means we'll get her recurring for a whole stretch of episodes. It didn't hurt that she took Wendy Scott-Carr down a peg, even if it backfired a bit by forcing Wendy Scott-Carr's hand and speeding up the indictment. At least she's reacting to Will now, instead of vice-versa.

The ringing phones under the painters' sheets was laugh out loud funny. Eyes dart from side to side: "I think that was a different one."
post #90 of 177

I wondered halfway through the episode why we hadn't seen nor heard from Cary at all, but they slyly saved his appearance as the episode's crowning moment, and it was magnificent. The little talk between Cary and Alicia at the elevators was also very special: Cary happily secure in his job and Alicia looking a little cowed and unsteady; maybe he wasn't the loser in their battle for the job two years ago after all.

 

The confrontation with Wendy Scott-Carr was also memorable. Elspeth's "ditziness" negating Wendy's intimidating tactics like a deflating balloon.

 

What a great episode.

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