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What's It Worth To You?

post #1 of 48
Thread Starter 
The recent posts in the thread for the exclusive release of the Egyptian Bd got me thinking,
If Twilight Time can license a title from one of the big studios, and put it out in a limited edition of 3000 units at $40 per,
and turn a profit on it, then there is hope that other films that lack mass appeal can make it out as well.
So as an adjunct to Ron's recent thread asking for your want-lists based on studio- I'm asking what your want lists are based on buy-in cost. I.e. just how badly do you want those movies that you want?

So since Twilight Times release is the model for this, here's the game:
name 5 titles from any studios you would absolutely be willing to purchase for $40 each. These would be limited to 3000 units or less, would all be first class a/v presentations with basic extras limited to an isolated score/ trailer/ or less. And no fudging on that last point- all you can get are basic, near bare bones releases- but with exceptional A/V quality as the source allows. And limited enough in quantity, that you can't afford to fence sit waiting for a bargain which will never come.

And for people, like me, who still remember what it was like to collect Laserdiscs, the buy-in price is an even slightly heftier $50 (which sadly is still a bargain compared to the rate of inflation since that era).

Again, this thread is dedicated to seeing just how bad you want it.

Here's mine

1) Jean de Florette/ Manon Des Sources w/ English subs (I consider it one collection, but I would still likely pay $50 for each film under the circumstances...especially if it were a strictly limited edition)

2) Prophecy - I know this will never get a release, and I can't explain my love for this goofy film- but seeing it in HD on my screen would be a rare joy that would easily be worth the buy-in to me.

3) Love With The Proper Stranger- I've waited so long for even a standard def release of this, a limited edition HD release would be worth the premium to finally be scratch this itch

4) The Wind- This become a very treasured Ld back in the day for me, and the wait for Warner to get this out on sd has been extremely disheartening. They alluded to it years ago and it's still nowhere on the horizon. Assuming the end result could look exceptional with some digital restoration work done if needed, I would pony up the cash for this one.

5) Goldengirl- for one thing, I've seen the film and, yes, I do like it quite a bit. It also has a lot of nostalgic appeal for me, and I like LWTPS it still hasn't seen even a sd release.

Honestly, I could go on all day. $20 may be a sticking point for DVD-Rs for me, but $50 for a pressed Bd release is much less of a problem. I would love to just at least have the chance to buy so many titles that I realize will never, ever see the light of day on this format- unless a new viable business model can come into play. I would happily, fundamentally, alter my buying habits, foregoing cheaper causal purchases, to fund a few less, more expensive but more highly valued ones.

Maybe after The Egyptian, this isn't as far fetched as it seems?
Edited by Paul_Scott - 7/24/11 at 5:50pm
post #2 of 48

I'd drop $100 if I could get a full length version of "Until the End of the World" in Bluray.   Maybe more.

 

I'd easily spend $40/$50 on Little Shop of Horrors restored with alternate ending in place as an extra

 

 

post #3 of 48
I will try to avoid duplicating my titles from the studio thread, and stick to titles that have less of a chance of being released (I believe.) For me this list is basically a variation on the obscure film's threads that exist from time to time on the HTF. Titles that I (as a former LD collector) would gladly pay $50.00 for include:

Colossus: The Forbin Project - Still miffed about the 1.33:1 DVD release.

Bedazzled (1967) - Happy to have the SD DVD release but this is a favorite that I'd love to see in HD.

Je vous salue, mafia! aka Hail, Mafia - I have to confess that I've never seen this film, but have read of it in several books dealing with world cinema and I've always been intrigued by descriptions of the plot, style, cinematography, and soundtrack. A true blind buy that I would not hesitate to purchase.

Inferno (1953) - Still fondly remember viewing this on cable at a friend's house almost 30 years ago. Still wish it would get a release on home video. Great performance by Robert Ryan in this one. I've always been a fan of survival films and I would gladly pay for the chance to re-experience this title.

Finally a made for television film that I'd love to see again. Tribes - I recall seeing this during its original broadcast and liking everything about the film, especially the battle of wills between Darren McGavin and Jan Michael Vincent's characters. Solid performances from both actors. Once again a film that I'd really love to re-experience.

- Walter.
post #4 of 48
The one film that sprang straight to mind for me is Don Siegel's Invasion of the Body Snatchers. One of my all-time favourite movies, the current ropey old Republic DVD is from 1998, and there is no sign of a BD release anywhere on the horizon. I'd gladly pay $40 to see this classic in HD.
post #5 of 48
I see what you're going for Paul but isn't this just another, "what I wish was on blu ray" topic?
post #6 of 48
I think he's thrown a new wrinkle into the topic. "Hey studios, we're willing to pay big bucks for these movies!" So I think it's a valid difference.

Frankly, I'm not sure I'd pay $40 or $50 for any movie. I wasn't a laser disc owner, I didn't jump on the bandwagon immediately for DVDs or HD, instead waiting for prices to be reasonable. Still, if I were to walk by a display for 3D blu rays of Creature from the Black Lagoon, It Came from Outer Space, or Dial M for Murder, I know it would stop me in my tracks.

However, at that price, before I'd reach for my wallet, I'd want these discs to at least have the extras that currently exist (for Creature and Space anyway). Even then, I'm not sure I could do it. I'm part of the "money is tight" crowd. You know, the crowd that's gotten a lot bigger lately.
post #7 of 48

I think the concept is very different.  "Not on bluray" generally talks about a mass release, a remaster, etc.   A lot of us are saying here:  I will pay a price premium for a release that I know will have limited sales because I want it in HD...

 

I think that's the one thing that is missing.   I paid $129 for my Toy Story 1 Laserdisc CAV Box Set from Ken Cranes.   So, would I be willing to spend money on the right title?  Yep.

post #8 of 48
I think I paid $75 for The Empire Strikes Back laserdisc in 1991. I'd pay that much for it and Star Wars in its original, unenhanced, un-DNR'd form on blu-ray.
post #9 of 48
Ok I'm in with the spirit of it, I just half expect the usual type of posts that offer up nothing special.

I would pay a premium for a few.

The Abyss extended version To start.
post #10 of 48

I found another title I paid a real premium for I'd do again:   Kids in the Hall: Brain Candy

 

If this came out in Bluray, I'd pay a premium for it.

post #11 of 48
The Thing. The original 1951 version. This has been my all time favorite sci-fi film since I first saw it as a kid in the late fifties.
The Uninvited. 1944 Ray Milland. Same as above but ghost story instead of sci-fi.
To Have And Have Not and Key Largo. Two of my favorite four Bogart films (Casablanca and The Maltese Falcon are the other two, which I of course already own on Blu).
post #12 of 48

In the laserdisc days, it was rather routine to spend $40 or more on a film that one really wanted in widescreen (and sometimes with no extras in the package). Sure, we paid really premium prices for something like THE ULTIMATE OZ or the CAV box of FANTASIA or for Criterion's releases, but if you wanted what was then the very best quality available for a cherished film, one found the money and gladly paid it.

 

Did I gulp hard when my Paypal for $44 rang up for The Egyptian on Blu-ray. You bet I did, but I was afraid I'd never get it in that high quality any other way, and I was determined to have it.

 

Sometimes, sacrifices just HAVE to be made.

post #13 of 48
I think this is a great idea, because the studios seem to all be hung up on volume that they don't understand collector's pay a premium for things that they really want. There are many titles that I would be willing to pay a premium for. I paid a fortune for several laseridiscs ($200-$300).

1. The Quiet Man (Give me a Blu-Ray of this from the latest restoration and I would gladly pay $50....include some nice extras and the price goes up from there!)
2. Tex Avery Cartoon collection (I keep my laserdisc player around primarily for this set and I would gladly pay $100 and up for a re-mastered Blu-Ray)
3. All remaining Billy Wilder Films (Five Graves to Cairo, A Foreign Affair, & Buddy Buddy)...Fedora is supposedly coming out soon. I would pay $40 for each of these adn $50+ for extras.
4. MGM Silents (Greed, The Wind, The Big Parade, The Crowd, etc...) Provide these all in a nice set and I would happily pay $150-$200 if presented properly.
post #14 of 48
Okay, I'll play.

VERTIGO, with the original mono soundtrack. This is probably coming from Universal at some point, but I have a feeling they'll f**k it up somehow.

PORTRAIT OF JENNIE.

INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS (1956). The existing DVD is crap.

THE OUTER LIMITS (1963-65). Okay, this isn't a movie, but this my TV-on-DVD holy grail.

BENEATH THE 12-MILE REEF. Isolated Bernard Herrmann score, please!
post #15 of 48
If these were only released by Twilight Time at $40 a pop, I'd just have to buy this little lot - They would all be remastered & look stonking:

She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
The Quiet Man - every transfer I've seen of this in the last 10-20 years has looked beyond dire.
Beneath The 12-Mile Reef
The Last Valley
One-Eyed Jacks
The Curse Of Frankenstein
The Horror Of Dracula
The Vikings
Helen Of Troy
Land Of The Pharaohs
post #16 of 48
I might have $40 to spend on a box-set now and then. I just might. But I don't have $40 to spend on a single DVD. Forget it. No matter how badly I want it. No way. Out of the question.
post #17 of 48
Here's the thing: Twilight Time is actually a Fox label. Personally, I think that the idea of paying a premium for obscure titles in a limited edition is nothing new, but it might boost the studios' bottom lines in their digital media sales, if only temporarily. At best, it's a band-aid solution.
post #18 of 48
Thread Starter 
Well, I guess that answers that.

Apart from only a few of us, not many people on this forum (which I've always taken as skewing to an older, more passionate film buff crowd) would seem to value any film high enough to pay a premium for it. I Don't know if I got the concept across as well as possible, but the key distinction I was trying to emphasize is the price is based on exclusivity. A limited number of units.
There is a huge difference between something like an MOD DVD which can be reproduced endlessly, and something that has a fixed and finite supply.
post #19 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Scott View Post

the key distinction I was trying to emphasize is the price is based on exclusivity. A limited number of units.
There is a huge difference between something like an MOD DVD which can be reproduced endlessly, and something that has a fixed and finite supply.
Does the fact there are only a few of the discs pressed make it more valuable to you? Pressing fewer discs doesn't make the movie better or worse.
post #20 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Scott View Post

Well, I guess that answers that.

Apart from only a few of us, not many people on this forum (which I've always taken as skewing to an older, more passionate film buff crowd) would seem to value any film high enough to pay a premium for it. I Don't know if I got the concept across as well as possible, but the key distinction I was trying to emphasize is the price is based on exclusivity. A limited number of units.
There is a huge difference between something like an MOD DVD which can be reproduced endlessly, and something that has a fixed and finite supply.

I'm guessing threre may be more people here that care about old movies and would pay big bucks for them,, but maybe they consider a waste of time to write this 5 movie list. They know nobody with power will actually listen to this, or maybe they can't choose just 5 movies...

If you wanted to know how many people like you are, you should just get your hands on the numbers for "The egyptian". I figure a big percentage of buyer's of this release (me included) would do the same for a number of other movies. So there you have it. Last I heard from a trustworthy source, they had sold close to 1500 units. Some people bought 2 units and others bought for profit (later sell on ebay), but still that figure shoul tell you something. No need to get discouraged about the lack of answers in this thread.

Whether selling 1500 units is enough for TT to make a profit and encourage more releases is another story though...
post #21 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaaguir View Post


I'm guessing threre may be more people here that care about old movies and would pay big bucks for them,, but maybe they consider a waste of time to write this 5 movie list. They know nobody with power will actually listen to this, or maybe they can't choose just 5 movies...

If you wanted to know how many people like you are, you should just get your hands on the numbers for "The egyptian".

I don't think you can extrapolate anything from the sales numbers of a single title. There are a number of older films I'd be willing to spend a fair bit of money on, but I have no interest in The Egyptian.
post #22 of 48
Basically what you are asking is there any movie that I want to rewatch so badly that I am willing to pay a premium to have a copy at all. While I have some movies I enjoy watching over and over, the short answer is no. I enjoy lots of movies and great movies come along every now and then that I could rewatch over and over for a reasonable price. Also the new digital download frontier should make this choice moot.

Now if the choice was for a version on a format that had 12-bit 4:4:4 color, lossless video compression, lossless sound, and 4K resolution (and somehow I had a project that could display it and the movie would benefit from such a format), then yes there would be a few movies for which I would be willing to pay a premium on a premium format that was designed to not be a mass-market format but a specialized collector's format, similar to something like collecting 35mm prints of movies.

Forbidden Planet
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
The Fifth Element
The Chronicles of Riddick (I really enjoy this movie)

to name a few.
post #23 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Angell View Post

Does the fact there are only a few of the discs pressed make it more valuable to you? Pressing fewer discs doesn't make the movie better or worse.

It's not about making a film better or worse- it's about making the ownership of a high grade copy of it a more exclusive proposition.

It's also about finding some kind of business model that can support the release of deeper and more esoteric catalog titles on a format that can barely support the release of heavily discounted, major catalog releases.

It's also not about making every catalog release an expensive, exclusive option.
post #24 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Scott View Post


It's not about making a film better or worse- it's about making the ownership of a high grade copy of it a more exclusive proposition.

It's also about finding some kind of business model that can support the release of deeper and more esoteric catalog titles on a format that can barely support the release of heavily discounted, major catalog releases.

It's also not about making every catalog release an expensive, exclusive option.

I can dig item two. If it takes a certain business model to get a movie on disc that otherwise wouldn't make it, ok. I will still be one of the people for whom that business model doesn't work. There's a limit to what I will pay.

If there's no mass audience for the film and the only way to distribute it is in small amounts, which will require a higher price, so be it. But please don't tell me there is value in an "exclusive proposition" just for the sake of exclusivity. That's just silly.
post #25 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Angell View Post



If there's no mass audience for the film and the only way to distribute it is in small amounts, which will require a higher price, so be it. But please don't tell me there is value in an "exclusive proposition" just for the sake of exclusivity. That's just silly.

The exclusivity thing is primarily tied into viability of the business model. It would be the trigger to make someone, who is already inclined to want to own that particular title, purchase immediately- as opposed to biding their time, waiting for the kind of deal that can really only occur with a more mass market release available at a variety of retailers all competing with each other.

But there is also the collector mentality at play. And I don't doubt that a small segment (probably very small) of enthusiasts with more means would be motivated to purchase more exclusives partly because of the fact that very few other people will have them. I see this kind of behavior in other (even more expensive) hobbies, so I have little doubt that mentality would find an in here as well.
Some people are passionate about the whole spectrum of films. Some are passionate about a few favorite films. And some people are passionate about the gear and value the media more for the opportunity it provides to see and hear their gear in action, than as works of art meriting deep analytical musing. It takes all kinds...
post #26 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Scott View Post


But there is also the collector mentality at play. And I don't doubt that a small segment (probably very small) of enthusiasts with more means would be motivated to purchase more exclusives partly because of the fact that very few other people will have them. I see this kind of behavior in other (even more expensive) hobbies, so I have little doubt that mentality would find an in here as well.

Many years ago I wandered into a specialist second hand record store. (I had never been there before and I was looking for an out-of-print album) The owner was very sociable and clearly loved to chat with customers. When I told him I had no records I had never played, he said I wasn't a true collector and went on to explain what a real collector was. I replied "Yes, a collector is someone who will buy a record just for the sake of owning it". He disagreed: "A real collector will buy a record he already has just to prevent anyone else from owning it!"
post #27 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Scott View Post


The exclusivity thing is primarily tied into viability of the business model. It would be the trigger to make someone, who is already inclined to want to own that particular title, purchase immediately- as opposed to biding their time, waiting for the kind of deal that can really only occur with a more mass market release available at a variety of retailers all competing with each other.

But there is also the collector mentality at play. And I don't doubt that a small segment (probably very small) of enthusiasts with more means would be motivated to purchase more exclusives partly because of the fact that very few other people will have them. I see this kind of behavior in other (even more expensive) hobbies, so I have little doubt that mentality would find an in here as well.
Some people are passionate about the whole spectrum of films. Some are passionate about a few favorite films. And some people are passionate about the gear and value the media more for the opportunity it provides to see and hear their gear in action, than as works of art meriting deep analytical musing. It takes all kinds...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin9 View Post


Many years ago I wandered into a specialist second hand record store. (I had never been there before and I was looking for an out-of-print album) The owner was very sociable and clearly loved to chat with customers. When I told him I had no records I had never played, he said I wasn't a true collector and went on to explain what a real collector was. I replied "Yes, a collector is someone who will buy a record just for the sake of owning it". He disagreed: "A real collector will buy a record he already has just to prevent anyone else from owning it!"
Sadly, I have to agree with both of you.
post #28 of 48

That's what I hate about this business model.  It is (cynically) designed to appeal to that collector's mind and the "omg remember Scarecrow of Romney Marsh! Buy it fast" crowd.  Listen, I don't mind paying higher than average prices for things I know won't sell a lot (that's been a successful model for Criterion for years) but even THOSE can be had on Amazon with applicable discounts

 

But, if limited profitability is the deciding factor for price, then why limit THE EGYPTIAN to a 3,000 copy run?  Why then cap themselves at a MAXIMUM combined gross of $180,000 for the BD and DVD?  Once the initial master is made, isn't the manufacture of the discs themselves as easy as popping out corn muffins?  

 

Did Fox REALLY sell Twilight Time the rights for a one time fee (hence the "pay us this much money and you can sell this many discs" pressing cap?)  or is Twilight Time, as a previous poster says, a boutique label with Fox hiding behind it?  

 

If it is a Fox label, then I hate this business model even more!

 

Everything about it (from the inflated "twice as much as the dvd" price to the "OMG its going its going you better grab it" cap) is artificial and cynical (IMO)

 

 

post #29 of 48
There are a lot of false assumptions being made about Twilight Time and THE EGYPTIAN, so I thought I'd try to clarify some of the points that have been raised here.

Twilight Time is NOT a "Fox label." They are an independent company that is licensing these titles from Fox. Big difference. They are a little company putting their own money on the line.

The 3,000 copy, limited edition is not simply a cynical marketing strategy. It has to do with the costs of licensing and the royalties due the film's participants. Soundtrack collectors are already familiar with this scenario. When releasing a soundtrack CD in such a limited number, the CD producers get a break on the licensing fees and royalties that would make an open-ended run cost-prohibitive. The same thing applies here. If Twilight Time thought they could still turn a reasonable profit by paying the higher fees and royalties for an unlimited pressing, I'm sure they would. But since Fox itself obviously found such a proposition unlikely, it's hard to blame Twilight Time for going the limited-edition route.

If you don't like the price, don't buy. It's your choice. But realistically, this is probably the only way we are going to get discs with such limited appeal. Personally, I think Twilight Time should be praised, not condemned, for taking the financial risk to bring these titles to the public.

There is a good interview with Twilight Time's Nick Redman over at Blu-ray.com that covers a lot of these issues. I think some of the posters here might find it enlightening.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=6728

- Mark

EDIT: I just want to re-emphasize the financial risk these boutique labels are taking. When they license a title for a 3,000 unit run, they pay the fees upfront. There is no guarantee that they will break even or turn a profit. A title may sell-out in days, or they may be sitting on thousands of copies years later. There is no such thing as a sure-thing, otherwise the studio would never let the title go in the first place.
Edited by Mark_TB - 8/7/11 at 3:59pm
post #30 of 48
I'd pay top dollar for the fullest available restoration of the silent epic Napoleon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_TB View Post

There is a good interview with Twilight Time's Nick Redman over at Blu-ray.com that covers a lot of these issues. I think some of the posters here might find it enlightening.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=6728

- Mark

Thanks for that, it was rather informative. While I was fairly sure of most of the issues with SAE's business model and DVD's, this answers most questions I had about them. I look forward to seeing how their business model evolves.
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