What is UltraViolet™ and why should you care? (1 Viewer)

Towergrove · Jun 2, 2011

Interesting Article about Ultraviolet...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/01/ultraviolet_wtf/

I wonder how this will effect Apples Icloud?

Sam Posten · Jun 2, 2011

Failed from the start IMO. No Apple support, no Disney support, dead in the water.

mattCR · Jun 2, 2011

Originally Posted by Sam Posten

Failed from the start IMO. No Apple support, no Disney support, dead in the water.

Little harsh. That would be a bit like saying Bluray is dead because Apple doesn't support it

Disney and Apple are the two hold outs. They are coming out with their own standard to compete. But the important point really isn't the standard. It's that everyone is coming out with a digital locker system that says to the consumer that their previous purchases, even those without a "digital copy" entitle them to a digital copy. It's how you get at them.

Still, Towergrove, this is basically the fourth or fifth discussion you've made an effort to start about Ultraviolet, and you discuss nothing else. I wonder if you're just a shill to pimp the product

Sam Posten · Jun 2, 2011

Perhaps. I have to say this strategy seems more sustainable than their "No way no how" strategy that preceded it =0

And I have to admit I thought the same thing about Towergrove this morning too, no offense ma'am =p I wonder what you guys are seeing about Ultraviolet that makes it so compelling based on so very few details.

MomOfTwins · Jun 2, 2011

To me Ultraviolet is a long overdue attempt at a solution to let me watch the movies I have purchased where, when and how I want to. Its long overdue.

Chuck Anstey · Jun 2, 2011

I don't know but this sounds like a huge Pay-Per View system. Combine the two statements from above:

So what's special about UV, then? Unlike most grand plans that emanate from the music business, this one is punter-friendly ... and very ambitious indeed. It's really a wholesale platform, designed so that if you have a (free) UV account, you'll pay once and then watch a movie anywhere.

You pay only for what you use, and you'll never lose anything.

It seems like the other shoe still to drop is that you first have to pay for the right to view the movie, handled by UV, and then you are going to have to pay a fee for each viewing on those devices since providing streaming/download isn't free. What exactly am I only "paying for what I use" since I theoretically only have to buy the movie once? It seems like the whole "unlimited copies" allowed will work because you will have to pay each time a copy is played anywhere under a "service provided fee" and not a rights fee. Sort of an extreme example of going to the movies where you first pay a fee to the studios for the right to watch the movie and then you pay the theater a separate fee for the service of actually showing the movie on the big screen in an auditorium. So for a big fee to the studios you could watch the movie in any theater you wanted as many times as you like, provided you pay the theater itself their "presentation fee" each time. Basically it simplifies things for 3rd party service providers to deliver movies for a fee without having to worry about copyright infringement or studio fees.

Sam Posten · Jun 2, 2011

Originally Posted by MomOfTwins

To me Ultraviolet is a long overdue attempt at a solution to let me watch the movies I have purchased where, when and how I want to. Its long overdue.

Reallllly. You say this based on what details? What will this give you that you can't get now from a disk that contains a digital copy or by ripping your own, and remember in exchange you are giving up your anonymity to the studios and are going to be tracked based on purchase and viewing habits (hellllllo Divx!)

Remember that when something on the internet is free, it's YOU that is being sold.

mattCR · Jun 2, 2011

Originally Posted by MomOfTwins

To me Ultraviolet is a long overdue attempt at a solution to let me watch the movies I have purchased where, when and how I want to. Its long overdue.

Long overdue in comparison to what? I can't believe most of the audience finds this as true. Digital Copy as a competing standard has been around for years. The only difference UltraViolet really makes is that for Microsoft and Sony, both with next generation consoles on the way, it allows for them to share universal network stored media and both be able to read and use them. It clears the ground for users to do some of this on their own to, thanks to the rules changes.

But for most end users, if they used UltraViolet tools, it means an added expense to re-buy in a digital format all of the stuff they already own. I can't believe there is a giant clamor to pay the studios an extra $2 to $3 to be able to re-download your movies you've already bought.
UltraViolet in the end is a lot like Steam. You buy a game, register it with Steam.. oops, lost the disc or it's destroyed? Fine. Redownload it. It's a nice benefit - I don't think anyone is denying that, but I'm surprised in a forum that is dominated heavily by guys (yes, we welcome you gals though!) we have two women who their first responses are about a digital archiving format change and the subsequent changes to digital copy control as related to an FCC decision from 2009. I mean, lots of topics get me going, but I'm surprised this is the one that stirs an influx of women to the forum.

MomOfTwins · Jun 2, 2011

Originally Posted by Sam Posten

Reallllly. You say this based on what details? What will this give you that you can't get now from a disk that contains a digital copy or by ripping your own, and remember in exchange you are giving up your anonymity to the studios and are going to be tracked based on purchase and viewing habits (hellllllo Divx!)

Remember that when something on the internet is free, it's YOU that is being sold.

First of all I said it is an attempt, its not a final solution. My personal belief is that if I purchase a movie (say Blu-ray in this example) I should be able to watch that however I choose: On a BD player, on a media server, on my phone, etc. As long as I (or my immediate family) is watching that and not sharing it with someone else, torrenting it, selling the BD once its ripped etc, that should be fine and legal. Unfortunately its not. Digital copy for me is a joke because by the time I want to watch on of the titles it has expired. The PC I set most of them up on finally died so I lost them. At least the studios are recognizing that they need to do something for people who want to play by the rules they have set up that are driving people to illegal options, that's my point.

MomOfTwins · Jun 2, 2011

Originally Posted by mattCR Still, Towergrove, this is basically the fourth or fifth discussion you've made an effort to start about Ultraviolet, and you discuss nothing else. I wonder if you're just a shill to pimp the product

4 out of 77 posts doesn't equal a shill. I've read and enjoyed a lot of Sarah's posts here (most not about UV). I think there will be a lot of questions about UV and the more info and discussions we have (regardless if you like it or not) the better.

Sam Posten · Jun 2, 2011

Originally Posted by MomOfTwins

First of all I said it is an attempt, its not a final solution. My personal belief is that if I purchase a movie (say Blu-ray in this example) I should be able to watch that however I choose: On a BD player, on a media server, on my phone, etc. As long as I (or my immediate family) is watching that and not sharing it with someone else, torrenting it, selling the BD once its ripped etc, that should be fine and legal. Unfortunately its not. Digital copy for me is a joke because by the time I want to watch on of the titles it has expired. The PC I set most of them up on finally died so I lost them. At least the studios are recognizing that they need to do something for people who want to play by the rules they have set up that are driving people to illegal options, that's my point.

OK, I disagree with your assessment of Digital Copy but let's get back to my question: What details have they provided about how all this works that makes you think that this is going to be any better than Digital Copy, or without the privacy complications of DIVX.

I get where Matt says this is a lot like Steam, and if you wanted to take the wind out of my sails on my being down on UV he could hardly have picked a better comparison. I -LOVE- Steam. I have steam on 3 OSes and on 6 boxes total, with literally over 200 games purchased (most at radical discounts). So if UV could match everything I like about Steam it would be a big win in my book. But so far I think that comparison is wayyyyyyy premature.

Plus you know what? I don't think people care too much about how their stats are tracked with games. In fact XBL made that a Meta-Game and Steam is refining even that. But movies? There is just something that makes me feel entirely creeped out knowing that some suit is tracking how often I watch Ernest goes to Jail!

mattCR · Jun 2, 2011

Thou doth protest too much

I did not imply she was a shill. I said, when you keep advocating something, that's how people view you. It applies to several really good posters here. I'm sure several people would call me a Windows MC shill. Or Sam an iPhone Shill. etc. It doesn't mean we are actually being paid by those entities, it's just that we are advocates of them.

But the question that a lot of us have is at the core of what Ultraviolet really signals. Let's be honest, Ultraviolet really is about providing Sony, Microsoft and a few others a chance to integrate multiple video services into their products and say: no matter where or how you bought it, it's yours and it will play on our box. That's the whole goal. And it's a valid one. The reason why Apple won't get on board is because they make a ton of money on iTunes, why would they ever get onboard?

Because of the way it works, it does allow for a lot of things I like - like it pretty well insulates the end user who archives their own media. But there are other parts of it that are not so good - like if you can't figure out how to do that on your own, you "pay" for an Ultraviolet download of content you already own.. which is kind of stupid. Even steam doesn't do that. It also allows them to keep it in proprietary system level formats if they want.

There are some things I Like about the core of Ultraviolet - that is, what it really means to the consumer. But the making sausage part of it has a lot to be determined.

Originally Posted by MomOfTwins

4 out of 77 posts doesn't equal a shill. I've read and enjoyed a lot of Sarah's posts here (most not about UV). I think there will be a lot of questions about UV and the more info and discussions we have (regardless if you like it or not) the better.

Sam Posten · Jun 2, 2011

I wish Apple paid me for pimping their products. =p

I use everything, good and bad, cross platforms/os/whatevs.

But I -prefer- elegant, consumer focused and consumer friendly tech. Sometimes that's Apple, for gaming it rarely is... For HT Apple still hasn't hit it right either in my book. But they are soooo close. I trust them to do it right and I trust my info with them a hellllll of a lot more than I do a mega industry conglomeration that's going to pimp my data and usage statistics all over their member groups. I trust Amazon even more than either of them right now.

Towergrove · Jun 2, 2011

Originally Posted by mattCR /forum/thread/311881/what-is-ultraviolet-and-why-should-you-care#post_3817636

Towergrove · Jun 2, 2011

Sam Posten Wrote:

Perhaps. I have to say this strategy seems more sustainable than their "No way no how" strategy that preceded it =0

And I have to admit I thought the same thing about Towergrove this morning too, no offense ma'am =p I wonder what you guys are seeing about Ultraviolet that makes it so compelling based on so very few details.

Please see my post #14.

Towergrove · Jun 2, 2011

Originally Posted by Sam Posten

I wish Apple paid me for pimping their products. =p

I use everything, good and bad, cross platforms/os/whatevs.

But I -prefer- elegant, consumer focused and consumer friendly tech. Sometimes that's Apple, for gaming it rarely is... For HT Apple still hasn't hit it right either in my book. But they are soooo close. I trust them to do it right and I trust my info with them a hellllll of a lot more than I do a mega industry conglomeration that's going to pimp my data and usage statistics all over their member groups. I trust Amazon even more than either of them right now.

I do so love my new iPad. I agree Apple still has some work to do on the home theater side of things but my husband loves his AppleTV in the den.

Sam Posten · Jun 2, 2011

You have to understand that it's happened here before. DIVX HDDVD/Blu Anamorphic Heck people were pushing DVD before we had ever seen one. Some were enthusiastic and hopeful fans, some were industry reps in disguise. HTF handled both better than the competition in all cases and I'm sorry if it seemed accusatory or worse, sexist. I'm approaching it with caution and mistrust but also with an open mind. People who push any new tech before we know all the facts raise my spider sense. So, we'll see.

Towergrove · Jun 2, 2011

Originally Posted by Sam Posten /forum/thread/311881/what-is-ultraviolet-and-why-should-you-care#post_3817905

JohnRice · Jun 4, 2011

Since the question regarding how proper this thread is to begin with was brought up, I believe the initial post is in violation of forum rules anyway. As I recall, it is not permitted to either post a complete article or to then say nothing. I suspect this is specifically to avoid shill-like behavior.

mattCR · Jun 4, 2011

Towergrove said:
Your joking right?? Calling a lady a shill and a pimp because I post articles about streaming and downloads in the streaming and download section??? Odd very odd and a little harsh, I'm hurt. I do believe I am right to post what I want here in the streaming section so long as it is related to streaming?, No? OR better yet should I have just stayed on the Betty Crocker website? If you look at my list of posts here I am also a fan of Hanna-Barbara, 3D and Warner Archives so I must be a quad pimper

I think sometimes we take things the wrong way; first nothing was intended as ill as that. As I pointed out in this thread, lots of us pimp the things we like and promote them, nothing wrong with that. And yes, I'm aware of your other posts. I think this is a good discussion to have, but you're quoting entire articles which as another poster points out, is not generally the way things are done. You also keep making repeated threads rather then develop one thread. I think if we had an established "UltraViolet Discussion" thread and you wanted to have it go to 200+ posts or whatever, that'd be great. But seemingly you start a new thread and just begin with a press release. So, to some users it appears a bit like spamming. It also makes it difficult to follow the subject line. You'll find repeatedly in posts I've advocated that I believe in the core concept of UltraViolet, and that I am a major proponent of what it actually means for the end user. It signals a monumental shift in how things get from A to B and it closes the door on some draconian policies I disagree with. But I think you'd find a lot more people following along if you didn't repeatedly start a thread to just lead off with no content but a giant quote. I think there are a lot of advocates here who would discuss this. All I think anyone is saying is: we don't need every press release in a new thread

Let's have one consolidated "All things Ultraviolet" thread. Because other things in the streaming area aren't popping up to the same extent.

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