Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › Official HTF Blu-ray Reviews › HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Tron Legacy/Tron: 2-Movie Collection (3D Blu-ray Combo Pack)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Tron Legacy/Tron: 2-Movie Collection (3D Blu-ray Combo Pack)

post #1 of 51
Thread Starter 

tron5.jpg

 

Tron Legacy/Tron: 2-Movie Collection (3D Blu-ray Combo Pack)

Directed by  Joseph Kosinski, Steven Lisberger

Studio: Disney
Year: 2010/1982
Aspect Ratio: 2.35:1/1.78:1; 2.20:1   1080p   AVC codec  
Running Time: 125/96 minutes
Rating: PG
Audio: DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1/5.1 English; Dolby Digital 5.1 French, Spanish, others
Subtitles:  SDH, Spanish, French, others

Region:  A-B-C
MSRP:  $ 79.99


Release Date: April 5, 2011

Review Date: March 25, 2011

 

 

The Films

 

In today’s cinematic universe, showing the insides of a computer or game program is mere child’s play. Even the most complex graphics and the most fanciful flights of the imagination can be brought to the screen if one has enough patience, creativity, and money. The two Tron films produced almost three decades apart represent the birth of computer graphics as a creative medium and a mature CGI world where anything is possible. No matter their lapses as narratives, the two films are fascinating examples of what the movies are capable of when thoughts can be processed by artists and rendered in images heretofore unseen and unimagined.

 

 

Tron Legacy – 3/5

 

In 1989, software developer and CEO of Encom Corporation Kevin Flynn (Jeff Bridges) went missing leaving behind a seven year old son. Twenty years later, his business partner Alan Bradley (Bruce Boxleitner) receives a page from Kevin to come to his old arcade office, but Alan sends Kevin’s rebellious son Sam (Garrett Hedlund) who, once there, finds himself sucked into the Grid vortex in much the same way his father had been decades before. Inside the Grid, he learns that his father’s program Clu (a computer generated younger version of  Jeff Bridges) has taken over control of this universal domain and is mounting an army to reenter the real world and take it over. With Sam reunited with his imprisoned father and his father’s sidekick, an isomorphic algorithm named Quorra (Olivia Wilde), working together, their combined computer knowledge and expertise with computer gaming are all mankind has to prevent the programs of the Grid from escaping and consequently taking over the world.

 

Though the special effects are far more massive and the world of the Grid is eons more advanced than what was offered in the 1982 original film, Tron Legacy really has very little new to offer from a story point of view (despite four writers credited with story and screenplay including Lost's Edward Kitsis and Adam Horowitz). We still have humans fighting against game programs for control of the Grid universe. We still have the impressively generated disc contest (akin to racquetball with lit and lethal Frisbees) and the light cycle competition (on multiple planes and with much more impressive CGI), and they’ve added a dogfight in computer generated fighter planes, not very original but a kick to see nevertheless. But the film is a half hour too long especially since there is little time given over to the father-son dynamic that had it been developed beyond a rudimentary scene or two could have given the movie some real heart to go with its massive technology, and the story of Tron himself is sketchily drawn and tremendously unsatisfying especially since Tron was such an important hero figure in the first film.

 

Jeff Bridges does double duty in the movie playing his present-day character of Flynn and also the computer program Clu (Bridges circa 1989). The digital technology that allows Bridges to play his younger self is pretty smoothly pulled off (only a couple of shots betray the technology behind the miraculous transformation), and the actor has a field day playing both noble and ignoble personas (he’s especially impressive addressing his thousands of minions as an almost Hitler-like martinet). Garrett Hedlund plays the somewhat embittered son without an audience-distancing cockiness that retains our rooting interests for him. It’s great to see Bruce Boxleitner in a couple of nice scenes playing present-day incarnations of his characters from the original movie. Olivia Wilde has a little more to do in this movie than her predecessor Cindy Morgan had in the first Tron, and she does well enough with a generally underwritten character. Michael Sheen is channeling the spirit of Tim Curry in his campiest over-the-top fashion as Zuse, the program who holds some answers for the heroes. James Frain is almost unrecognizable as Clu’s right hand-program Jarvis but also gets the job done with ease.

 

 

 Tron – 3/5

 

Game programmer Kevin Flynn (Jeff Bridges) found himself fired from his job at computer firm Encom when his ideas were stolen and claimed to be his by Ed Dillinger (David Warner). Dillinger has created a Master Control Program which has been systematically absorbing the other company programs and has now become powerful enough to dominate even its creator who must carry out its bidding. In an effort to overthrow the MCP, company programmer Alan Bradley (Bruce Boxleitner) and his girl friend Lora (Cindy Morgan) have created programs that are trying to overpower the Master, but they need help. Flynn convinces them to let him hack the MCP and retrieve proof that he invented those game programs and not Dillinger (and thus get his job back), but in order to get those files, he’ll have to assist in bringing down the MCP completely. As he’s working, the MCP digitizes Flynn and sucks him into the system where he meets the digital program counterparts to his friends: Alan is called Tron and Lora is called Yori. They’re battling to the death against Dillinger’s master program called Sark in a fight to the finish for ultimate survival.

 

The script by director Steven Lisberger may be rudimentary, but the concept is pretty fascinating. If only he could have come up with more involving combat sequences pitting the good programs against Sark’s squadron of evil henchmen and had more engrossing characters for his actors to play. They really are one dimensional embodiments of good and evil both inside and outside the computer, and while the visuals are impressive for their time (it’s easy to understand why fan boys latched on to this film; it looks like nothing else of its period and the visuals are still pretty dazzling more than a quarter century later), even they get tiresome after an hour when there isn’t anything more complex at its core than the flashing colors and impressively differing shapes of this first attempt at pictorializing computer circuitry.

 

Casting is interesting here as you have two nominal leading men not vying for the hand of a fair lady (she’s already made her choice) but working together for a common purpose. Jeff Bridges has been given the quirkier character while Bruce Boxleitner gets the standard firm-jawed hero part; both are excellent in their dramatically limited roles as good guys. David Warner, at the time the go-to guy for evil charlatans, plays another one here to good if not great effect. The welcome presence of Barnard Hughes is very much in evidence as an older programmer being put out to pasture while Dan Shor makes a nice impression as the third program inside the system assisting in the efforts to defeat the MCP. Not much is asked of Cindy Morgan except to look fetching inside and outside the computer, and she does this with no effort whatsoever.

 

 

Video Quality

 

Tron Legacy – 5/5

3D quality – 3.5/5

 

The film has been framed at 2.35:1 with select sequences inside the grid framed at 1.78:1. (The switching back and forth between aspect ratios is handled quite subtly and more smoothly than was accomplished in The Dark Knight.) For the most part, color has been desaturated throughout with only key colors on the uniforms of the programs or the colors generated by the light cycles pumped up to near-blooming proportions. Sharpness is superb both in real world moments and inside the Grid, and black levels are everything one would wish for in both areas. The film has been divided into 20 chapters.

 

In terms of 3D effectiveness, the opening sequences before entry into the Grid are in 2D (a screen prompt advises viewers to keep their 3D glasses on throughout the film), but once inside the Grid, the 3D is quite noticeable and very effective in giving the viewer a sense of total immersion into this peculiar gaming universe. There are plenty of moments where objects and people exist on different planes separated sometimes by what seems to be vast areas of space, and ghosting seems to be nonexistent. Those wanting lots of external 3D projections from the screen are going to be disappointed since those few examples have been saved for the dogfight sequence where laser bullets occasionally fly out beyond the screen along with pieces of exploding airships, none of which is exploited for its maximum effectiveness.

 

Tron – 4/5

 

The film has been framed at 2.20:1 and is presented in 1080p using the AVC codec. The live action scenes in the real world are stunning in their clarity with sharpness superb and no evidence of the age of the film. Color saturation is terrific and flesh tones are attractively realized. Black levels can vary from good to great at any given time but are almost always pleasingly inky. The animated sequences, however, cause some problems for the transfer. The matte lines sometimes flash a bit and there are some crawling pixels along those thin lines in the suits and backgrounds. The fluorescent colors that are prominent in the computer world sometimes bloom as if they’re out of control. And there is definite banding to be seen in darker colored backgrounds on occasion. The film has been divided into 19 chapters.

 

 

Audio Quality

 

Tron Legacy – 5/5

 

The DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 sound mix is reference quality in every respect, and it’s to the filmmakers’ credit that they didn’t just make the Grid world aurally immersive but the real world, too, has plenty of examples of pans across and through the soundstage. The depth of the bass in the LFE channel makes for window-shaking impressiveness, and Daft Punk’s unusually effective music score gets the full treatment throughout the soundfield. Dialogue comes through clearly in the center channel.

 

 

Tron – 4.5/5

 

The DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 sound mix is a very impressive effort taking sound stems from this period and fashioning such an imposing enhanced lossless soundtrack. While some of the real world scenes lack thorough surround enhancement, the computer world is alive with all manner of surround activity, and the depth of the LFE channel will likely impress all but the most hardcore audiophiles. While there are numerous examples of directionalized dialogue, most of the speaking comes from the center channel and is excellently presented.

 

 

Special Features

 

Tron Legacy – 3/5

 

The only bonus features on the 3D Blu-ray disc are 3D trailers for Cars 2 and Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides.

 

All of the bonus featurettes on the 2D Blu-ray disc are presented in 1080p.

 

“The Next Day: Flynn Lives Revealed” is a 10 minute featurette offering both backstory on the Kevin Flynn saga but also covers the years from 1989-2009 offering a taste of the story after the final credits roll.

 

Disney Second Screen allows a user to synch his iPad or computer up to the Blu-ray presentation where interactive models and other bonus material is introduced at various times during the movie.

 

“Launching the Legacy” is a 10 ¼-minute background piece featuring interviews with original director Steven Lisberger and current director Joseph Kosinski discussing their interests in the project and the five minute speculation reel Kosinski made and presented at Comic Con to see if there was any interest in a Tron sequel.

 

“Visualizing Tron Legacy” features interviews with the film’s two costume designers and its production designer discussing the look of the new film as paying homage to the original but with its own unique look and feel. It runs 11 ¾ minutes.

 

“Installing the Cast” discusses the return of the two stars of the original film and the casting process for this film’s new characters and features brief interviews with Jeff Bridges, Bruce Boxleitner, Garrett Hedlund, Olivia Wilde, and Michael Sheen. It runs 12 minutes.

 

“Disc Roars” details how the seven thousand member audience at Comic Con was recruited to provide some soundtrack cheers and chants which were used in the film. This runs 3 minutes.

 

“First Look at Tron: Uprising is a very brief (1 ¼-minute) peep at the graphics for the upcoming Disney animated series.

 

The music video “Derezzed” is performed by Daft Punk in this 3-minute vignette.

 

The disc contains promo trailers for Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides, Prom, Tron: Uprising, Tron: Evolution, Cars 2, and African Cats.

 

 

Tron – 5/5

 

The audio commentary is contributed by director-writer Steven Lisberger, producer Donald Kushner, and special effects directors Harrison Ellenshaw and Richard Taylor. The quartet is proud of their accomplishments and find plenty to talk about in a rather laidback style during the film’s running time without any of them talking over the other one. Fans will enjoy listening to their discussions of the filmmaking process with this unusual-for-its-time film.

 

“The Tron Phenomenon” features cast and crew of the sequel (along with the producer and director of the original) discussing their high opinions of the film in this 9 ¾-minute featurette presented in 1080p.

 

“Photo Tronology” finds director Steven Lisberger and his son Carl taking a visit to the Disney archives and looking at and discussing production photographs of Tron. The younger Lisberger asks intelligent questions of his father and makes some astute assessments in this 16 ½-minute father and son featurette. It’s in 1080p.

 

All of the DVD featurettes below are presented in 480i.

 

Development features five vignettes about the film’s preproduction period:

 

  • “Early Development” features director Steven Lisberger and producer Donald Kushner speaking of the beginnings of the story conferences. (2 ½ minutes)
  • “Early Animation” is some test shots. (½  minute)
  • “Computers Are People, Too” explains his story as if one were inside a Pac-Man game. (4 ½ minutes)
  • “Early Video Tests” is a silent section of animation. (½ minute)
  • “Gallery” is an interactive section featuring hundreds of photos and drawings which the user can flip through and mark for later reference.

 

Digital Imagery also features five sections on the computer animation to be used.

 

  • “Backlight Animation” shows the stages of matting. (1 ¾ minutes)
  • “Digital Imagery in Tron” has Richard Taylor explaining the four companies who combined efforts to render the images in the film. (3 ¾ minutes)
  • “Beyond Tron” discusses the special effects work the Magi company did on the film. (4 minutes)
  • “The Role of Triple I” features the other major effects house on the movie.; (¼ minute)
  • Triple I demo (2 ¼ minutes)

 

“The Making of Tron is an 88 ¼-minute documentary going from pre-production through release and looking back on the film’s influences.

 

Music features two sections with discarded music: the light cycle race (2 ¾ minutes) and the end credits (3 ¼ minutes).

 

Publicity features the 5-minute reel presented at the NATO conference, a work-in-progress trailer (1 ½ minutes), four theatrical trailers (1-2 minutes each) and the same interactive art gallery named above.

 

There are three deleted scenes introduced by the director and running 2, ¾, and 1 ¼ minutes respectively. They must be chosen individually.

 

Design is also introduced by the director and features two vignettes on the light cycles and two vignettes on the recognizers. They must be chosen individually.

 

Storyboarding features five vignettes introduced by Bill Kroyer. He discusses the storyboarding process, the layout of the main titles, the light cycles storyboard, and the light cycle sequence from the finished film.

 

Galleries once again offers the interactive four-part gallery section offering hundreds of drawings and photographs from the archives on the movie.

 

The disc offers promo trailers for Tron Legacy, Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides, Prom, Cars 2, Tron Evolution, and African Cats.

 

The next disc in the set is the DVD version of Tron Legacy.

 

The final disc in the set is the DisneyFile digital copy of Tron Legacy. There are instructions for installation on Mac and PC devices.

 

 

In Conclusion

3.5/5 (not an average)

 

Tron and its sequel are not great narrative adventures. Their good versus evil scenarios seem undernourished by today’s dramatic standards but just right if one is looking for undemanding special effects-laden joyrides. The high definition renderings are impressive captures of the theatrical experiences which fans will no doubt welcome.

 

 

 

Matt Hough

Charlotte, NC

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #2 of 51

I don't get the review marks for the "3D" in this film. 3.5 out of 5 and yet the review states the 3D was effective. What rates a 5 out of 5 in terms of 3D? A lot of cheesy "poke out" effects? The 3D should be rated strictly on its intended use within the context of the film and in this case the intent was to create an added differentiation between the external "real world" and the internal "computer world". As you stated in the review, the 3D was effective in doing what it was intended to do. Rating 3D should be dropped if it can't be rated based on anything more than whether it provides enough "jab" effects to suit those people who have a need to have things poked in their faces during a movie.

post #3 of 51

Thanks cannot wait to see Tron & the Grid in BD

post #4 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S View Post

I don't get the review marks for the "3D" in this film. 3.5 out of 5 and yet the review states the 3D was effective. What rates a 5 out of 5 in terms of 3D? A lot of cheesy "poke out" effects? The 3D should be rated strictly on its intended use within the context of the film and in this case the intent was to create an added differentiation between the external "real world" and the internal "computer world". As you stated in the review, the 3D was effective in doing what it was intended to do. Rating 3D should be dropped if it can't be rated based on anything more than whether it provides enough "jab" effects to suit those people who have a need to have things poked in their faces during a movie.



If I think there were effects in the film which would have benefitted from a more demonstrative use of projectile objects, I will take marks off from the perfect score of 5. They don't have to be "cheesy" to be integral to the 3D and more effective than what is offered. A 3.5/5 is indicative of a B in another rating system, I think a fair estimation of the way I saw the 3D used in the film:good but not great.

 

post #5 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S View Post

I don't get the review marks for the "3D" in this film. 3.5 out of 5 and yet the review states the 3D was effective.

 

This was my reaction as well.  If there is no ghosting and the 3D is authored from the source, mirroring without artifacts, and duplicating the films directorial intent, IMHO, that should give the Blu-ray 3D a perfect score.  confused.gif

 

However, trying to be open minded here, there maybe other issues that are not clarified and as Matt stated:

 

Quote:
effects in the film which would have benefitted from a more demonstrative use of projectile objects, I will take marks off from the perfect score of 5.

 

 

What first made me nervous about the Tron Legacy Blu-ray 3D was Ron Epsteins's post on 3-23/11: Link  

 

Quote:
Personally, I wasn't bowled away with the 3D on the upcoming Blu-ray release of Tron Legacy.

 

It's an expensive disc, especially when purchased as a package with the first Tron movie.crazy.gif

 

Paul


Edited by Paul Hillenbrand - 3/26/11 at 9:54am
post #6 of 51

Paul,

 

Everyone has their own individual tastes towards

what they like or dislike when it comes to 3D.

 

I believe in the repeated description provided

for THE HTF 3D ADDICT, I talk about liking the

novelty of the technology.  In other words, I like

my 3D to be exploited.  Lots of things coming out

of the screen (within reason). 

 

I do understand that there are many that don't like

their 3D to be full of gimmicks.  They just want a

simple sense of definition in their picture.

 

I found the 3D in Tron to be effective -- meaning

there is a sense of separation.  Many people will

be happy with that.

 

However, the best 3D I seen (even without the

gimmicks) is where a picture window has been

created where the separation is so well defined

that there is a cardboard cutout feel of characters

and objects being on two different levels.  For me,

that is the kind of 3D you look at and say, "WOW!"

 

Tron doesn't have that look or feel.  And you know

what?  There may be many that are happy that it

doesn't.  However, as someone who has watched

and reviewed well over 30 3D titles over the course

of a few short months, I think I have a good feel for

what I consider to be exceptionally well done 3D.

Frankly, I thought Tron could have looked better here.

 

....but again, it's all subjective and nobody is going

to agree across the board about how good or bad

it looks.   I thought "effective" was a good term. 

post #7 of 51

Ron,

 

Essentially, I agree with what both you and MattH are trying to convey. My problem is that I'm having a hard time figuring out if both of you are talking about the Tron Legacy 3D film that was projected in the theater, which I viewed in RealD digital 3D, or if it was further flawed when reproduced as a Blu-ray 3D reproduction.

 

IOW, the movie was a 3D disappointment to me in the theater, but I can't fault the Blu-ray 3D for that if it is a faithful reproduction of the source.

 

Paul

post #8 of 51

Paul,

 

It sounds like we are on common ground here.

 

If you were disappointed in the theatrical 3D of tron then

I would say that Matt and my opinion kind of comes in

alongside yours.

 

I am guessing if you thought the 3D was lackluster in

the theater, it won't look any better in the home.

 

I know someone on this forum who is claiming that

theatrically, TRON was the best 3D he has ever seen.

So, again, this is a subjective technology.

 

However,  I think its safe to assume by all our three

opinions alone that there is much better 3D to be seen

elsewhere.

 

I would like to know when ghosting is introduced.

I believe it has everything to do with disc authoring and

the quality of the display to handle such problems. I am

no expert on this,so take that as my best guess.

post #9 of 51

Since you think 3D is most effective with a lot of "jab" effects, I'm not sure I can take your idea of what constitutes "good" 3D seriously. I mean Yogi Bear is "good" 3D because a lot of junk gets thrown at the camera, but the Tron:Legacy 3D is not so good because it mainly maintains most of the 3D effects behind the plane of the screen.  

post #10 of 51

Edwin, you don't have to take it seriously and you

don't have to agree with me.

 

Read what I said again.  It is a subjective opinion.

 

However, I bet you can show a group of people both

YOGI BEAR and TRON side-by-side and most would

pick YOGI BEAR as having the superior 3D image. 

 

....and it's not based on what gets thrown at the

screen.  YOGI BEAR has that reach-in, picture window,

cardboard cutout 3D look in just about every scene.

TRON looks much more flat throughout.

 

 

 

 

post #11 of 51

Okay, I guess I can see what you are getting at. You are talking more about the, for lack of better words, deep field effect similar to those IMAX films. I have to admit that I like the flatter look of films like Tron:L because they are not so hard on the eyes. I watched a bit of one of the IMAX films on a 3D set and the depth of field was huge, but after a few minutes I felt like my head was going to explode. It felt like I was seeing double and my eyes felt like they couldn't find a focal point. They were all over the place. However, I can also see the appeal of that effect to a lot of people because the depth of field is impressive. At least, I think I now have a better idea of what you might consider "reference" 3D to be. 

post #12 of 51

Edwin,

 

You got my point perfectly.

 

My idea of WOW factor my not be your idea of WOW factor.

 

However, when I review 3D films and rate them high to low,

I take into consideration  what I think audiences are going

to be most impressed with. 

 

I think those films with the "deep field effect" have more of

a WOW factor than those that do not. 

 

I don't feel TRON needed any 3D gimmickry, but I was

disappointed that with all its beautiful computer visuals, there

wasn't more depth of field present.  You look at the final 20

minutes of the film and you wonder why the 100 minutes that

preceded it didn't look quite as good.

 

 

post #13 of 51
Thread Starter 

I've been pondering all evening a possible change in nomenclature from "3D quality" to something else. a "3D proficiency" score or a "3D versatility" score. I'll keep thinking aout it.

post #14 of 51

With Tron, Yogi Bear and Tangled coming over the next 3 weeks Im in 3D heaven!  Thanks guys for the reviews!

post #15 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

 

I would like to know when ghosting is introduced.

I believe it has everything to do with disc authoring and

the quality of the display to handle such problems.

Same here!

If the stereo picture source is pristine and there is no ghosting on either the left or right picture elements then only the 3D-eyewear, disc-authoring, or display-limits can remain as possibilities for producing ghosting artifacts.   If the particular 3D disc is not the problem, then artifacts have to come from either the eyewear, display performance or both.

After my display setup choices have been optionally implemented for decreasing 3D ghosting artifacts on my two fast-phosphor plasma displays, it has become a minor concern for me at this point in time and IMO, I find viewing 3D Blu-ray's very close to what I experience at the theater.

Paul

 

 

post #16 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S View Post

Okay, I guess I can see what you are getting at. You are talking more about the, for lack of better words, deep field effect similar to those IMAX films. I have to admit that I like the flatter look of films like Tron:L because they are not so hard on the eyes. I watched a bit of one of the IMAX films on a 3D set and the depth of field was huge, but after a few minutes I felt like my head was going to explode. It felt like I was seeing double and my eyes felt like they couldn't find a focal point. They were all over the place. However, I can also see the appeal of that effect to a lot of people because the depth of field is impressive. At least, I think I now have a better idea of what you might consider "reference" 3D to be. 


I would think that "impressive depth of field" is the point of 3D.  If you don't have that, then it might as well be flat 2D.  I saw TRON: LEGACY in an Imax 3D screening, and it was the most useless, lackluster 3D I've ever seen in the theater; it would have been much better as a 2D screening, because then I wouldn't have had to wear glasses throughout the whole damned thing and I would have saved money too.

post #17 of 51

Jeffrey,

 

I am sort of relieved to hear that.

 

I knew writing a negative review about Tron's 3D

quality would garner backlash.

 

I didn't see the film theatrically.  I almost could

not trust what I was seeing on Blu-ray.  When I

hear comments like yours, at least I feel better

about my review, knowing I am not alone in my opinion.

 

post #18 of 51

I saw TRON: LEGACY in 3D in a regular multiplex, and there was nothing going on, neither effects nor depth of field. Like ALICE IN WONDERLAND and CLASH OF THE TITANS it may as well have been in 2D. 

post #19 of 51

It's not a "throw stuff at the camera every five minutes" kind of movie, but what effects there were worked for me at the IMAX screen I saw, and when I saw it later at another screen in the same multiplex.

 

I have to wonder how many digital 3D venues haven't been calibrated/maintained properly, and are now undermining the whole experience. Just like bad projection once ruined many a 50's 3D film.

post #20 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Nelson View Post




I would think that "impressive depth of field" is the point of 3D.  If you don't have that, then it might as well be flat 2D.  I saw TRON: LEGACY in an Imax 3D screening, and it was the most useless, lackluster 3D I've ever seen in the theater; it would have been much better as a 2D screening, because then I wouldn't have had to wear glasses throughout the whole damned thing and I would have saved money too.

I will agree with this. I found Legacy's stereo to be beyond lackluster.
 

So much of the movie was FLAT. I found it so hugely disappointing. The world of Tron presents so many creative opportunities to make use of the 3D format, far more than just pop out, and yet director Joseph Kosinksi is barely able to even maintain a consistent perception of depth throughout the film.

 

Ultimately I found Legacy to be a disappointing film on all fronts, lackluster 3D, an incoherent and badly paced story, and uninspiring action.

 

post #21 of 51

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

I believe in the repeated description provided

for THE HTF 3D ADDICT, I talk about liking the

novelty of the technology.  In other words, I like

my 3D to be exploited.  

 

To me, this sounds exactly like the justifications we used to hear from people who complained about widescreen DVDs because they were more concerned about "getting the most from their TV" than about how images can be used to tell a story & how well the DVD reproduces those images.

post #22 of 51

From reading the review though the normal 2D is fantastic though?

 

Long time lurker finally back after a while.  Forum always good :)

post #23 of 51

I don't care about the 3D, I'll never watch it.

 

In your review, you mention some of the Matte effects flicking and such in the video section of the "TRON" review. If I'm remembering correctly, this was always the case with this film, even in the theater when I saw it back in the day sometimes the effects went from amazing to flicky and fake looking. Is this what you're seeing, or is there more of it on the Bluray? As in, Bluray is really peeling the luster off of this and showing flaws that weren't there in the original release?

 

not that it's going to effect my purchase, I never did buy the TRON dvd, only borrowed it from a friend and I can't resist that deluxe edition packaging on the expensive version. I'm just curious is all. :)

post #24 of 51
Thread Starter 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell G View Post

I don't care about the 3D, I'll never watch it.

 

In your review, you mention some of the Matte effects flicking and such in the video section of the "TRON" review. If I'm remembering correctly, this was always the case with this film, even in the theater when I saw it back in the day sometimes the effects went from amazing to flicky and fake looking. Is this what you're seeing, or is there more of it on the Bluray? As in, Bluray is really peeling the luster off of this and showing flaws that weren't there in the original release?

 

not that it's going to effect my purchase, I never did buy the TRON dvd, only borrowed it from a friend and I can't resist that deluxe edition packaging on the expensive version. I'm just curious is all. :)


I only saw the original Tron once in the theater when it was first released, and I never owned the DVD, so my memory is foggy at best remembering what I saw all those decades ago. It's likely not any worse than originally; the Blu-ray is likely a good replication of the visual theatrical experience, but that's just a guess. Unlike some folks I know,  I don't remember specifics in video or audio quality about films years after I see them. I seem to clear the memory banks and push onward with the next film.

 

Sorry I can't be more help about that. I'm sure once the Blu-ray is in general release, there will be plenty of fans who can answer your question.
 

 

post #25 of 51

Thank Matt! From your response, it doesn't sound all that bad or distracting. :)

post #26 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Nelson View Post




I would think that "impressive depth of field" is the point of 3D.  If you don't have that, then it might as well be flat 2D.  I saw TRON: LEGACY in an Imax 3D screening, and it was the most useless, lackluster 3D I've ever seen in the theater; it would have been much better as a 2D screening, because then I wouldn't have had to wear glasses throughout the whole damned thing and I would have saved money too.


To each their own. I found that the 3D in Tron:Legacy worked for me. It was quite apparent to me when the film switched to 3D from 2D. I found that there was enough depth of field to satisfy me, without causing any viewing discomfort. I for one do not really care for the cardboard cutout "viewmaster" effect, not only because it gets hard to watch for extended periods but also because the artificiality of 3D becomes more and more apparent with increasing depth of field. To me, Tron: Legacy had just enough 3D depth of field to create the desired effect without emphasizing the fakeness of the stereoscopic process. 
 

 

post #27 of 51

I had no problem with the 3D effect in the Imax theater, and it sounds like this 3D BD replicates it accurately.  I think what we are seeing here is a conflict of expectations.

 

Watching Tron Legacy in 3D was like viewing that world through a large window, and it was only occasionally that the picture broke out of the "windowpane."  This was intentional, and also James Cameron's philosophy when filming Avatar.  After a while, you forget that you're watching 3D -- it just seems natural, which to me is the most effective way to use 3D.  In the real world, you don't normally walk down the street oohing and ahhing at the immersive nature of what you're seeing, even though it's in genuine 3D.  smile.gif

 

Here's my suggestion for future reviews:  Use the section reviewing the film ("The Film") to give your opinion of the quality of the 3D design and execution, just like you would comment on the direction or cinematography.  Then in the Video Quality section you could give an objective appraisal of how accurately those effects have been translated to blu-ray.

 

I'm really looking forward to this release, and can't wait to try it out when I buy my new Panasonic 3D plasma display in May.

 

- Mark

 

 

post #28 of 51

I saw the film in IMAX 3D, and although the 3D aspect didn't seem to do much, I thought the changing aspect ratio was very effective on the giant IMAX screen. It could be that both these elements worked together to create the overall atmosphere, with the 3D doing more than we were conscious of. But I'm just speculating.

 

I only saw it once, though. For anyone who saw the movie in a regular 3D or even 2D theater, did the aspect ratio switch, or was it consistently 2.35:1?

post #29 of 51
Thread Starter 

I took part last week in a roundtable interview with the director of Tron Legacy Joe Kosinski. Below is a transcript of the Q&A session:

 

Q - In your own personal movies you've directed, where would "Tron: Legacy" rank/ stand?
A - Joseph Kosinski: #1, definitely.

Q - Were there any concepts you planned but weren't able to realize in TRON: Legacy?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Yes, there are always limitations. For instance, Sam was initially supposed to battle four sentries on his way to get his father's disc. Unfortunately we ran out of time and weren't able to shoot that sequence.

Q - What were the biggest challenges in directing this movie?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I think the biggest challenge on TL was the same as on any other film -- creating a compelling story and characters you care about.

Q - How much pressure did you feel in not only making a sequel to Tron, but also in continuing the story?
A - Joseph Kosinski: A lot. The first film was ambitious in so many ways -- visually, conceptually, and technologically. I wanted this film to be just as ambitious in all of those respects.

Q - There's a poster of TRON game in Flynn's house. Why is there no movie poster?
A - Joseph Kosinski: The Tron movie does not exist within the fiction of our story. ENCOM was a game developer in the 1980s and Kevin Flynn used the experiences he had in the first film as the foundation for the ENCOM Tron game that he created upon his return to the real world.

Q - How much of a burden was the "Legacy"-part in TRON?
A - Joseph Kosinski: The 28 years of backstory was certainly a challenge from a script writing point of view. However, it was important to me that our film did not require prior knowledge of the first film.

Q - Since the original TRON was not considered a hit, what do you think made the difference this time around?
A - Joseph Kosinski: The first film was conceptually decades ahead of its time. Now the notion of 'cyberspace' and a digital avatar is almost second nature. Also, our story is more than anything a father son (or sons) story, which hopefully appealed to those who normally wouldn't go see a 'sci-fi' film.

Q - Was Jeff flattered to see himself as a young man again?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I think he found it to be a bit strange as you would imagine. He described it as feeling like the first moment you ever hear your own voice on tape -- not exactly what you would expect.

Q - Before you started to shoot the movie, did you draw a story board?
A - Joseph Kosinski: My sketching abilities are pretty limited, but I did have a small team storyboard about 90% of the movie.

Q - How did it feel to work on a project for so long and then finally see it in all its glory on the big-screen?
A - Joseph Kosinski: It was a 3.5 year process so it took me awhile to realize it was actually finished. I am very proud of the film and particularly all of the thousands of people who worked on it.

Q - Was there ever any thought of setting the world of Tron in cyberspace instead of making it a place of its own?
A - Joseph Kosinski: From the beginning I was not interested in making a movie about the internet. I liked the idea that this world had been sealed off since 1989 and had evolved on its own, like the Galapagos Islands.

Q - How are you planning to expand the TRON Universe?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Disney is currently developing an animated series that takes place in the Tron universe before the events of Tron Legacy. I am currently brainstorming with my team of writers and producers on what the next chapter of our story would be.

Q - On the big screen Tron Legacy was visually pure magic. Do you think it works on normal TV?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I find that the quality of movie theaters out there can vary widely, particularly for a 3D movie. For me, seeing the movie on Blu-ray on a nice HD plasma screen is about as good as it gets.

Q - Can you tell us how it was working with Jeff Bridges?
A - Joseph Kosinski: A wonderful experience, everything you would hope for. I learned a lot from him.

Q - Few directors make their feature debut shooting in the new style 3D, was that a particularly daunting task?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I knew this film had to be shot in 3D from the very beginning. There certainly are a lot of challenges it presents. The cameras are more cumbersome and prone to more technical issues. They slow down the shooting process a bit. And they make the visual effects process much more difficult, particularly on a film like this. However, in the end I'm glad we went the way we did.

Q - Is it more challenging for a director to manage a sci-fi movie rather than the usual drama/comedy/thriller genres?
A - Joseph Kosinski: The biggest challenge of a movie like this is that there is no location you can go to shoot it. Everything has to be created from scratch. I spent a year designing this world with my team before we even began shooting.

Q - Cillian Murphy only briefly appears in TRON Legacy. Would it be fair to assume his appearance here is only a primer for possible involvement in a potential sequel?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Yes that would be fair to assume.

Q - What advice do you have for aspiring directors?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Go out and make something that reflects your interests, your taste, and your ideas. No one will pay you to make something until you have a few things you can show that you've directed. I got my start by making short films on my own.

Q - Can you tell us how much impact the Comic-Con presentation trailer made on the final movie?
A - Joseph Kosinski: That teaser test was designed to show the studio what the look and feel of the movie was going to be as well as a hint of the narrative. What the Comic-Con presentation showed was that there was still a strong interest in this property and it gave them the confidence to push forward with the production of the film.

Q - How much of Tron Legacy was computer animated?
A - Joseph Kosinski: The Light Cycle Battle and the Light Jet Battle are almost 100% computer animated. The rest of the movie is a blend of live action and digital backdrops.

Q - On the subject of things you weren't able to put into the movie, are there plans to release a director's cut?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Almost everything I shot is included in the movie, there is very little on the cutting room floor.

Q - What memories do you personally have of Tron 1?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I remember watching it on VHS sometime on the mid-80s and that it looked and sounded like nothing I had ever seen before.

Q - With a wardrobe budget of $13 million, you had some issues with the LED lights on the suits. Why the reliance on practical suits over digital?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Actually the suits used an illuminated fabric. It was important to me that the characters would illuminate their environment and each other. That would be something that would be incredibly difficult to simulate in post-production.

Q - 'Tron’ surprised us with groundbreaking special effects. ‘Tron: Legacy’ did the same and even added impressive 3D technology. What do you think will shock us in ‘Tron 3’, assuming it happens (we’re all rooting for it of course!)?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I think the final scene of TL leaves open some very interesting possibilities. If Quorra can cross over into our world, what other elements from the Grid could do the same?

Q - How specifically did you make Jeff Bridges look so younger?
A - Joseph Kosinski: We used Jeff's performance of Clu and remapped it onto a digital version of himself at 35 years old. I used the movie "Against All Odds" as a reference for Clu's appearance.

Q - Can you please talk about the transformation of Tron into Rinzler and back again? If he could return to being Tron then why did it take him so long to do it? Did he survive?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Only once Rinzler saw the face of Kevin Flynn again did he recall his true identity. As he sinks into the depths of the Sea of Simulation, you can see that his lights turn from orange to white -- back to the colors of Tron. He still remains there, alive but dormant.

Q - There are lots of fans of the 1982 Tron movie. Did you fear their opinion?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Since we decided to embrace the mythology set out by the first film, I felt that fans of the original would generally be supportive of this film. Of course there are always exceptions but opinions are not to be feared.

Q - People know Olivia Wilde from House M.D. TV series. Why did you choose her to play Quorra's part?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I felt that she embodied many of the qualities that I wanted Quorra to have -- she's smart, strong-willed and has a very striking look. She is actually the first actress I met for the part and I think she gave a fantastic performance.

Q - While you come from a visual background and have said the film was 90% storyboarded, what did cinematographer Claudio Miranda bring to the table?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Claudio and I had done over a dozen TV commercials together before I asked him to join me on TL. From the beginning I told him I wanted this to be an "uplit" world, light had to come from the floor whenever possible. That was a huge challenge for him in that he had to coordinate with the production designer in order to incorporate lighting into the architecture. We also pioneered a ceiling mounted motion control rig for the End Of Line club which was another "first" for our movie. The thing I love about Claudio is that he is not only an incredible artist, but a brilliant technician.

Q - From a special effects standpoint, what was the most challenging scene to create?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Probably the Light Cycle scene due to the complexity of the choreography. It was like 4 dimensional chess.

Q - What was key to making the story relate-able for young people today now that video games are so far removed from arcade games of the 80s?
A - Joseph Kosinski: At its core the movie is about a son trying to reconnect with his father which is something I think almost anyone can relate to, regardless of how old you are.

Q - How much input did Jeff Bridges add to the script or story?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Jeff was involved from the very beginning. The Buddhist qualities that Flynn has taken on since being trapped in the Grid was something that Jeff brought to the table. There are a quite a few lines in the film that Jeff came up with or adlibbed in the scene.

Q - Could you define what the “Tron Legacy” means to you in one sentence?
A - Joseph Kosinski: The film is about finding human connection in an increasingly digital world.

Q - What was your initial reaction when you were approached to direct Tron Legacy?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I was very flattered; I felt the project had so much potential. I knew I had a lot of work ahead of me to convince the studio that the movie was worth making and that I was the guy to do it, but I certainly was excited to have the opportunity.

Q - How did you make the professional transition from architecture to filmmaking?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Rather than getting a job as an architect after school, I started a small digital design studio with a friend of mine called KDLAB. I started making short films and eventually got a few small commercials to direct. I then moved to LA to work on larger projects and after a year or two met with Sean Bailey and started talking about doing a sequel to Tron.

Q - Many of the best video gamers are women. Did you consider the possibility of Flynn having a daughter instead of a son?
A - Joseph Kosinski: We did briefly, but in the end we felt that Quorra (the last of the remaining ISOs) would be a more interesting female character.

Q - If someone hasn't seen the original Tron, would you recommend they watch it or Tron Legacy first?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Although not required, I would recommend they watch the original Tron first as it will help them understand the backstory of Legacy.

Q - The marketing for this movie has been very intense all throughout production. How much influence did you have over the way Disney presented TRON Legacy to the masses outside of the actual viewing experience?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I was very involved, in fact Disney allowed me to cut the first two trailers.

Q - How open was original Tron creator Steve Lisberger to updating and adapting the TRON universe for the 21st Century?
A - Joseph Kosinski: He was very open and an essential part of the creative team. He thought of himself as the "spiritual advisor" to the project and helped us all keep an eye on the big picture.

Q - Were you always adamant that the movie would focus entirely on The Grid? Could future TRON adventures focus more on the Grid's relationship with reality?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Yes, the focus of TL had to be on the relationship between Sam, Flynn, and Clu in the world of the Grid. I think as the last scene of TL hints, the future lies in blurring that line between the Grid and our world.

Q - What aspect of the upcoming TL Blu-rays are you the happiest with?
A - Joseph Kosinski: After TL opened theatrically, I was able to go back to Skywalker Sound and fix approximately 100 different aspects of the sound mix that bothered me. So, the domestic Blu-ray contains that completely remixed and remastered 7.1 audio track.

Q - The IMAX presentation was flawless and amazing. Can you explain working in this format?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Because they are so precisely calibrated and maintained, I found the IMAX presentation to be the best reflection of the movie I wanted to make. I spent a lot of time working with the folks at IMAX to make sure we delivered that experience. I was happy to see that we were able to include the IMAX version on the Blu-ray.

Q - How's the Blu-ray presentation? Is there open matte scenes from the IMAX like The Dark Knight Blu-ray presentation?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Yes, all of the IMAX scenes are presented in full frame.

Q - Some viewers criticized CLU's face - they say it was unreal, a little bit fake - do you think there is some truth in this criticism?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Clu was certainly the most technically and conceptually ambitious aspect we chose to tackle on this film. There is nothing more difficult than creating a realistic human face, especially if it is someone we know like Jeff Bridges. I do hear the criticism, but I think I speak for the whole team when I say that we would rather be criticized for trying something new rather than for not trying at all.

Q - Why couldn't Flynn just reprogram Clu to accept a less than perfect existence? I'm not sure how Clu grew more powerful than the Creator. Can you explain?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Clu represents a copy of Kevin Flynn at an age when he was at his most ambitious and one could say most egotistical. Over the last 20 years, Kevin Flynn has wizened with age and learned the hard way that his priorities were out of balance. Unfortunately, Clu does not mature in the same way; he is essentially frozen in time. Flynn's battle with Clu is in a way a battle with the man he used to be and Sam is caught in the middle.

Q - What do you want people to remember from your film 20 years from now?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Hopefully it will be seen as an ambitious film for its time and inspire some young kid out there to dream, as the first one did for me.

Q - Do you think the world of Tron will be a very similar to the future of Humanity?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I hope not.

Q - Tron Legacy has an interesting digital relationship with real technology in our lives. Science-fiction can sometimes be an outline for our technological growth. Was there anything in Legacy that you modeled from real-life?
A - Joseph Kosinski: The idea of 'genetic algorithms' and 'quantum teleportation' are real concepts currently being researched right now. We met with scientists from CalTech and JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory) to make sure that the science in our film was accurate.

Q - Did you rework or re-edit any of the actual shots in the film? Maybe clean them up like the Star Wars Special Editions?
A - Joseph Kosinski: No, I just tweaked the soundtrack for the Blu-ray.

Q - How do you think 3D helps draw viewers further into the world of the movie?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I think when used correctly it can create a more immersive experience. It should never be a distraction.

Q - Who came up with the idea to name the barkeep "Zuse"?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I asked the writers to pull together a list of computer pioneers. Konrad Zuse created one of the first functional computers.

Q - I'm a big fan of your supporting cast from James Frain to Michael Sheen. They're such marvelous actors, were they a joy to direct?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Yes, they were both fantastic to work with. Both brought unexpected aspects to their characters which as a director is exactly what you hope for.

Q - After making TL, do you feel that society should be concerned about technology or should it be embraced?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Both. I think that technology can be an incredible tool. We wouldn't be able to create a movie like this without it. However it needs to be watched so that it doesn't interfere with our personal relationships.

Q - If Kevin Flynn's body was transported into Tron and he seemingly sacrificed himself at the end of TL, does that mean he is no longer alive, or has he transformed into something else?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Reintegration is a mysterious thing. Flynn's code is still in there, fragmented....

Q - Do you think that you were chosen to direct Tron Legacy because of your background in design and architecture?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Not solely, but to make a movie like this you have to be interested in creating a whole world and for me that was an exciting challenge.

Q - How much virtual time *did* Flynn spend on the Grid? I believe the writers mentioned something about 28,000 cycles...?
A - Joseph Kosinski: The ratio of Grid Time to Real World time is about 50:1. So 21 years would be over a thousand years on the Grid.

Q - What is your favorite shot in Tron Legacy?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I always liked the shot of Sam and Quorra in the dark hallway, illuminating each other only with the light coming from their suits. It's a shot you can only have in Tron.

Q - If it's up to you, would you want to helm Tron 3?
A - Joseph Kosinski: If we can come up with the right story, then absolutely.

Q - Could you talk a little bit about Daft Punk's participation? Their score was awesome, who had the idea to involve them with TL?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I have been a fan of theirs for a long time so I set up a meeting with them back in 2007, before I had even shot the test piece. I told them I wanted to create a classic film score that blended electronic and classical music in a way that hadn't been done before. They were amazing collaborators and I am very proud of the work they did.

Q - Are you working on the Tron animated series at all?
A - Joseph Kosinski: No, but a number of writers and producers from TL are involved with it.

Q - Which character in the film is most like you in your real life?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Well when I started working on this film I would have said Sam, but now I feel more like Flynn.

Q - The first Tron became a reference for geeks. Weren't you afraid that your film would be categorized as a geeks' movie and only that?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Absolutely. We tried to get the word out that this was a film that non-geeks could enjoy. Thankfully word of mouth helped with that.

Q - Would you like to live in a world like TRON?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I did for three years. It's nice to be back in the real world now.

Q - You're also developing the Black Hole remake. What can you tell us about that?
A - Joseph Kosinski: We are currently working on a script with Travis Beachem. I am very excited about the potential of this project.

Q - How exactly was it possible for Quorra to materialize into the real world? What impact will she make on the real world?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Quorra was reconstructed from the Carbon and Water stored in the Shiva laser from Flynn's teleportation. If you look closely, you'll see the various canisters arranged around its base.

Q - Daft Punk created an amazing score, but were you concerned that the score would become such a character in itself that it would distract the audience away from the story?
A - Joseph Kosinski: No, but I was very pleased to see that the soundtrack is one of the bestselling in years.

Q - In your opinion, which was the most difficult effect to make/ pull off for this movie and why?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I wanted to make it so that the audience had no idea what was real and what was virtual. I've always been interested in blurring the lines between the two.

Q - Which was the hardest shot? How many times did you have to shoot it?
A - Joseph Kosinski: The shot of Sam rising in the Recognizer, it required many, many meetings to figure out how to do it.

Q - After you read the Tron: Legacy reviews - did you find the criticism in reviews is useful for you as young director?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Absolutely.

Q - With 3D booming and only getting better, how do you think Tron Legacy translate to home 3D with the 3D Blu-ray?
A - Joseph Kosinski: I was impressed with the Blu-ray 3D. It holds up well even on a smaller screen.

Q - Joe, any final thoughts on Tron Legacy?
A - Joseph Kosinski: Thanks for all of the great questions, hope you enjoy the Blu-Ray!

 

 

post #30 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Tuck View Post

I saw the film in IMAX 3D, and although the 3D aspect didn't seem to do much, I thought the changing aspect ratio was very effective on the giant IMAX screen. It could be that both these elements worked together to create the overall atmosphere, with the 3D doing more than we were conscious of. But I'm just speculating.

 

I only saw it once, though. For anyone who saw the movie in a regular 3D or even 2D theater, did the aspect ratio switch, or was it consistently 2.35:1?



The third time I saw it was 2D, 35mm, and constant 2:35:1 throughout. With all the screens in my area going digital, it's been a while since I've seen print wear and reel changes! Fourth time was Digital 3D, non IMAX and also 2:35:1 all the way.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Official HTF Blu-ray Reviews

Gear mentioned in this thread:

Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › Official HTF Blu-ray Reviews › HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Tron Legacy/Tron: 2-Movie Collection (3D Blu-ray Combo Pack)