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The 2011 American Idol #10 HTF TOP TEN CHALLENGE: All details here....

post #1 of 93
Thread Starter 

We're baaaaaack............

 

Actually, I've been away for a bit thanks to this lousy pancreatic cancer that I'm tangling with.  Because of the Chemotherapy and other complications I didn't feel that I could provide adequate moderation of one of our more popular contests.  But member Yee-Ming has graciously volunteered to take over that task so we WILL be having a contest with a nice Blu-ray DVD prize package to the winner as in years past!  Owner Adam Gregorich will be putting together that package as we get closer to the final week of the competition.

 

But let's talk a bit about how this is going to work.  Because of the delay in getting this started we have decided to open the contest the minute that Contestant #11 is eliminated most likely on Thursday March 24, 2011 and close entries the moment that the competition begins with 10 remaining contestants (most likely on 8:00pm EDT sharp on Tuesday March 29, 2011 or Wednesday March 30, 2011).

 

If you are new to these contests check out last year's competition thread HERE.  There you will find the rules and other particulars that will get you up to speed.  The only major difference in the structure of the competition this year (because we are starting so late compared to last year) is that you will already know who the top ten contestants are (in former years you had to choose them from the top 12) but that will make for an interesting slightly different challenge in some aspects.  Of course the goal remains the same - to try to figure out the correct order of finish and if you think that limits the competition be aware that there are well over 3 million unique combinations of ten names used once each (known as permutations to the mathematicians out there).

 

At this point I will turn this competition over to Yee-Ming who will organize the contest as he sees fit.  Once again I wish to express my appreciation to him for offering to oversee this very enjoyable contest.

 

 

 

Let the games begin!

 

 

drum.gifbanana.gifdance.gifrock.gifdrum.gif

post #2 of 93

Well whaddya know, I'm well and truly on the spot now!  Heh... biggrin.gif

 

Many thanks Robert and Adam for still sorting out a prize, I was expecting to organise a challenge just for the fun of it.

 

For ease of reference, I've cut/paste the rules (as necessarily amended due to our late start this year), see below:-

 

The "Rules":

When the number of contestants is whittled down to 10 entries will officially open.
At that time you will be asked to submit a list of the order in which these top ten entrants will finish. Entries will close when the "Final 10" start to perform (at 8pm EDT on Wednesday March 30, 2011). Only ONE entry per member.

  • List your top ten in numerical order (1-10). Please use the names as listed on the roster below (when posted).
  • Your list must be unique. No duplicate lists allowed. For duplicate lists, first submission gets that list.
  • Once you submit a list, it is FINAL. No edited lists are allowed (unless your original list is invalid due to a mistake or a duplication.)
  • Scoring is as follows: You are assigned 1 point for each position that your prediction is away from the final position of each contestant. For example, if you predict a contestant to come in 3rd and he or she comes in 7th you get 4 points. If that contestant comes in 12th you get 9 points. A 2nd place finish gets you 1 point. And so forth.
  • Lowest total points wins (with a score of 0 points being the best possible score.)
  • In the event of a tie the contest winner will be the entrant who was the fewest spots away from picking the winner. If it's still a tie, then we'll move down the list and determine who was closest to predicting the second spot, and so on, until the tie is eventually broken.
  • Members of the HTF staff and their significant others are eligible to participate, but only for glory and not for the prize package. All other members of the HTF community in good standing may enter and compete for the prize.

Entries close at 8:00p.m. EDT on Wednesday March 30, 2011. No exceptions please.

Here are a couple of words of explanation regarding this particular contest and the rationale behind the setup.

  • American Idol, as many of these reality shows, is known for its unpredictability so it is quite possible that an ousted "survivor" might return. This is quite possible, with the Judge's Save rule being in force, and having been used previously.  One season, two contestants were voted off the same night so instead of a "5th" and "6th" position we decided to assign two "5.5" positions for the purposes of scoring. That's why the rules clearly specify the "final" position of ouster for each contestant. It's not over until it's over, and who knows what twists this season will bring? And if there are unforeseen circumstances we will make a determination that will be fair to all entrants as much as possible. (Otherwise we will return your entry fee ).

 

There are probably other things that we haven't thought of but we can deal with them as the show progresses. The one thing that I ask of all entrants (other than making sure that their list is unique) is that you follow the following format when submitting your entry:

01. Contestant
02. Contestant
03. Contestant
04. Contestant
05. Contestant
06. Contestant
07. Contestant
08. Contestant
09. Contestant
10. Contestant

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

Some specific caveats this year because I'm organising and not RAF as in years past:-

 

1. As is obvious from my "location", I don't live in the US; my timezone is 13 hrs ahead of EST, and AI is broadcast "the next day" at prime time here, in effect during the morning after each show has already been aired in the US.  So as not to spoil my enjoyment of the show (such as it is), I trust you will not begrudge allowing me to view the shows spoiler-free in my timezone, but this means I cannot compile results until the next day after I have viewed the results show Friday night my time.  Fridays being what they are, occasionally I may have a late evening out with the missus in which case I might not compile results until Saturday morning my time (Friday evening EST).

 

2. I am clueless with Excel.  I will try and modify Robert's older spreadsheets to see if I can get them to work, but if I can't, I'll simply compile results manually and post them.  It shouldn't take that much effort if we have about 20 participants, if last year's number is any guide.

 

3. I am not a moderator so I can't 'acknowledge' receipt of your predictions by editing your post to mark them as having been submitted (since I can't edit other members' posts).  What I'll do instead is keep a list of participants in the next post, which I will edit as we go along once entries have been recorded by me, by noting that the participant's entry has already been entered.

 

I think that covers it, but if there's anything I'm sure we can reach a consensus as to how to deal with unforeseen issues.  And if we can't, HTF moderators have the final say.

 

Added as at March 26, 2011 00:48 GMT+8 (a.k.a. EDT+12):-

 

At present we have a still Final 11 (because of the judge's save), who will all perform on March 30 and which will be reduced to 9 next week with 2 eliminations on the results show of March 31.  Unless there is a strong consensus otherwise, Robert's Choice #3 below in post #16 (which matches my earlier "prediction" in post #11) applies, i.e. select your Top 10 before March 30 8pm EDT, which leaves one unpicked contestant, and when two are eliminated on March 31 (as announced by Seacrest), both will be scored at 10.5, unless it is crystal clear one was bottom (scored as 11) and the other was second-bottom (scored as 10).  Entries with either 10 or 11 picks will be considered valid (I can fill in #11 by elimination) and recorded as such, but it is expected that #11 will simply be ignored if Robert's and my preference prevail.


Edited by Yee-Ming - 3/25/11 at 9:48am
post #3 of 93

Contestants as at March 25-30, 2011 alphabetically:-

 

Casey

Haley

Jacob

James

Lauren

Naima

Paul

Pia

Scotty

Stefano

Thia

 

----------------------------------------

 

Participants (as at closing):-

 

Yee Ming (entry submitted)

RAF (entry submitted) 

NYSandy (entry submitted)

Carl Miller (entry submitted)

Elizabeth S (entry submitted)

gregstaten

TonyD (entry submitted)

Phil Taylor (entry submitted)

NolanJ (entry submitted)

Patrick Sun (entry submitted)

Dheiner (entry submitted)

Jeffrey_H (entry submitted)

Russel G (entry submitted) 

pitchman (entry submitted)

Bryan X (entry submitted)

Aaron Silverman (entry submitted)

Lucy S (entry submitted)

 

Fifteen participants with entries submitted by closing!  


Edited by Yee-Ming - 4/1/11 at 11:47pm
post #4 of 93

Yee-Ming, I'm in....and thank you for organizing this for us!

post #5 of 93

Thank you, Yee-Ming.  I will play.  smile.gif

post #6 of 93

I'm in as well. Thanks for helping out here!

post #7 of 93
Thread Starter 

I'll be in (RAF) as well as my "significant other, "NYSANDY"

 

Good luck all!

post #8 of 93
oops.

coming soon.
Edited by TonyD - 3/21/11 at 10:24pm
post #9 of 93

I'm in. I can't be as terrible as last year ... or the year before that ... or the year before that ..... ..... .... at least that's what I'm going to keep telling myself.

post #10 of 93

I'm in!

post #11 of 93

We have 9 participants so far.  Keep it coming folks!

 

Tony D, your "entry" is a bit early, entries open only when the Final 10 are actually known (which should be the end of this week), which is different from previous years when we predicted a Top 10 once the Final 12 was known.  So I'm disregarding your entry for now, in case Haley makes the Final 10, but if she does turn out to be the next one eliminated, I will assume you stand by your existing predictions; if she does make Final 10 you'll have to change your predictions.

 

As an aside, I think it unlikely that the save will be used so early, since the judges will want to 'save' the save for use closer to the Top 5, in case one of the favourites has a really bad week.  However, if it is in fact used this week, we'll still have a Final 11, but if past years are anything to go by, two will be eliminated the following week, creating a Final 9 with no Final 10 week in between.  If this really does happen, I then propose that we therefore predict a Top 10 at Final 11 stage, with one unpicked contestant.  This would probably be more consistent with past years where we picked Top 10 at Final 12, rather than truncate the competition by picking only a Top 9 out of the Final 9.

post #12 of 93
Thread Starter 

I had Ron Epstein put up a banner publicizing the contest and I assume that as soon as people find out that the winner will get a nice bundle of Blu-ray and other DVDs the number of entries will grow. 

 

In the past the "Package" has had a retail value of somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 to $200 - depending upon what Adam Gregorich can get from the studios.)    Of course, the DVD package is nice but the real challenge and honor is to become the king (or queen) of the hill in achieving the lowest score.   

 

Keep up the good work, Yee Ming!

post #13 of 93

I'll play.  And I'll see if I can convince the Mrs. to come back and defend her title. :)

 

post #14 of 93

 

01. Scotty
02. Lauren
03. James
04. Jacob
05. Pia
06. Casey
07. Paul
08. Thia
09. Haley
10. Naima
11. Stefano
post #15 of 93
01.  Pia            
02.  James           
03.  Jacob                 
04.  Scotty                   
05.  Lauren             
06.  Paul            
07.  Thia              
08.  Naima               
09.  Casey                
10.  Stefano               
11.  Haley                     
post #16 of 93
Thread Starter 

Spoiler Alert **********************  If you haven't watched the results show yet then please don't read the rest of this message.  I'll unspoilerize it tomorrow morning (3/25/11)  Note: Spoiler removed the afternoon of 3/25/11

 

Yee-Ming, if by chance you are online you might want to read what I've written because we have to make a decision ASAP.  And for other members who will be submitting lists you might want to quickly watch the show and then read what I've written spoilerized.

 

 

O.K. Houston we have a problem here. Casey was saved with the one "save" that the judges can use this or in any season. I think that we have three choices to consider.

 

Choice #1: Everybody submits their TOP ELEVEN List in order (as NolanJ has already done) and we score the lists accordingly. Since they have already announced that TWO people will go home next week and since they don't usually spell out who was #11 and who was #10 that means that each of the contestants who is voted off next Thursday will receive a score of 10.5 (the average of 10 and 11). We have done it that way in the past - although it never occurred at such a dramatic moment. All the deadlines remain the same (no lists can be submitted after 8:00pm EDT on Wednesday 03/30/11).

 

Choice #2: We wait until next Thursday, 03/31/11 for entries to be submitted. At that time you submit a TOP NINE once the top nine contestants left has been identified. Entries would open at the conclusion of the results show on Thursday 03/31/11 and entries would close at 8:00pm EDT sharp on Wednesday 04/06/11 (assuming that they stay with the Wednesday and Thursday format. If for some reason they go to a Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday format then entries would close at 8:00pm EDT sharp on Tuesday 04/05/11.

 

Choice #3: We open the entries right now with everybody submitting a TOP TEN list from the current field of 11. Entries would close at 8:00pm EDT sharp on Wednesday 03/30/11 as the programming guide indicates that's when the next show begins to air. I will strongly lobby for Choice #3 because it's neat and clean and brings back a bit of the flavor of last year's contest when entries had to choose a TOP TEN from a field of 12. Choosing a TOP TEN from a field of 11 makes things a bit more challenging (this is a "challenge" after all) and everyone has the same handicap in this case. Interestingly, assuming the 10.5 scoring for the two contestants who leave next week would guarantee that there will be no Perfect Scores of "0" (not that we really expected such perfection. The record by Dheiner a few years ago remains at 9.0 and will be hard to beat.) We have to act fast on this because there are only five days from tomorrow until entries close. And remember that Yee-Ming is on the other side of the planet and will probably not see this until tomorrow. I would suggest that we anticipate that Choice #3 is the best format and in the spirit of that I would suggest that people start submitting their top ten NOW. If a list of 11 or a list of 9 is decided upon (mostly by Yee-Ming and myself although we will listen to suggestions from others) then those people who submitted their list of ten would be allowed to drop the bottom name from their list of 10 or add in the 11th contestant at the bottom of their list to create a list of 11. It sounds complicated but it really isn't. The only important thing here is not to draw this thing out beyond tomorrow because then things tend to get dicey. So for those of you who choose to read this spoilerized text right now and who want to submit a list of your TOP TEN now feel free to do this. Remember, no two lists submitted may be identical (for obvious reasons) and the first submitted list takes precedence. OK. Back to the show.

post #17 of 93
Thread Starter 

01. Jacob

02. Pia

03. Scotty

04. Thia

05. Casey

06. Haley

07. James

08. Naima

09. Paul

10. Lauren

post #18 of 93

OK - here's my 10 -- from winner to loser

 

1. Jacob

2. James

3. Pia

4. Scotty

5. Lauren

6. Haley

7. Naima

8. Casey

9. Paul

10. Stephano

 

(11) Thia

 

 

 

 

post #19 of 93

01. Lauren

02. Stefano

03. Paul

04. Pia

05. Thia

06. Scotty

07. Jacob

08. James

09. Haley

10. Casey

 

(11) Naima

post #20 of 93
01. Lauren
02. James
03. Pia
04. Scotty
05. Jacob
06. Casey
07. Naima
08. Thia
09. Paul
10. Stefano
11. Haley

 

post #21 of 93
Read the spoiler so top 10

01. James
02. Jacob
03. Pia
04. Naima
05. Scotty
06. Casey
07. Haley
08. Lauren
09. Paul
10. Thia

and if we have to do 11 then Stefano is 11
post #22 of 93
01.  James             
02.  Scotty                
03.  Jacob                 
04.  Casey                             
05.  Lauren             
06.  Naima           
07.  Thia              
08.  Pia
09.  Haley           
10.  Stefano               
11. Smiley face White Teeth
post #23 of 93

Robert, I've just finished watching the results show; what a crazy week!

 

Actually, I'd already "predicted" this, although I had thought it unlikely that the save would be used so early, and indeed Casey thought the exact same thing):-
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yee-Ming View Post

 

As an aside, I think it unlikely that the save will be used so early, since the judges will want to 'save' the save for use closer to the Top 5, in case one of the favourites has a really bad week.  However, if it is in fact used this week, we'll still have a Final 11, but if past years are anything to go by, two will be eliminated the following week, creating a Final 9 with no Final 10 week in between.  If this really does happen, I then propose that we therefore predict a Top 10 at Final 11 stage, with one unpicked contestant.  This would probably be more consistent with past years where we picked Top 10 at Final 12, rather than truncate the competition by picking only a Top 9 out of the Final 9.


So to answer your question, Choice #3 would be my preferred option IMHO -- it is closest to our previous format of choosing 10 from 12, and next week's eliminated contestants are scored at 10.5 unless they clearly indicate someone was bottom (i.e. 11) and the other was second-bottom (10).  In the event the overwhelming consensus is, however, for Choice #1, i.e predict Top 11, no matter, I can fill in any missing #11s by process of elimination.  I will therefore start recording entries after I post this.

 

For the record, my own entries:-

 

01. James

02. Jacob

03. Pia

04. Scotty

05. Lauren

06. Casey

07. Paul

08. Thia

09. Naima

10. Stefano

 

And it's nice to see our all-time champion Dheiner back for another round!

 

 
 
post #24 of 93

Here are my entries:

 

 

01.  Jacob            
02.  Casey                
03.  Scotty                 
04.  James                             
05.  Pia             
06.  Lauren           
07.  Paul         
08.  Naima
09.  Thia           
10.  Haley               
11. Stefano
post #25 of 93
Thread Starter 

Nicely done, Yee Ming!

 

I had also thought in previous years, "What happens if the 'save' is used by the judges the week that the TOP TEN was to be established and the worst case scenario (or best case in terms of entertainment value) took place?"  I think that we should definitely go with the TOP TEN list and drop #11.  At first I thought that it wouldn't make any difference but now I realize it would make a tremendous difference so  just don't count the 11th entry on each list.  Here's an example of where it would change scores significantly.  Suppose I included Stefano as pick #11 and he comes in, say, third in the contest.  That would give me a score of 8 for Stefano (11-3) whereas if he wasn't counted then my score would be 8 points better because Stephano wouldn't be included in the scoring.  A member e-mailed me asking what's the difference if we use an 11th contestant or not.  That's the difference.

 

So let's stay with the TOP TEN submissions and, as you said, accept lists of 11 contestants as valid by just ignoring the 11th position.

 

As an aside, Casey's reaction to all this was so weird (some might say "Creepy") that I almost thought that it was being staged that way.  And the whole thing was made even stranger because they featured a portion of the program this week showing how some of the contestants loved professional wrestling.  "It's not for real, guys!"  The juxtaposition of Casey's reaction and facial expressions brought back visions of George "The Animal" Steele glaring out at the crowd while chewing on some of the padding at the corner of the ring. (Anyone else old enough to remember George "The Animal" Steele?  Hanson Alert:  Casey and George might make a great separated at birth photo op if you could find the right poses!

 

laugh.gif

 

 

Good luck everyone in the contest.  It's off to a great start.  thumbsup.gif  thumbsup.gif

post #26 of 93

I'm in!

 

01. Pia
02. Jacob
03. Lauren
04. James
05. Casey
06. Paul
07. Scotty
08. Thea
09. Naima
10. Haley
(11. Stefano)
post #27 of 93

 

I'm in, too!

 

01. James

02. Pia

03. Casey

04. Lauren

05. Scotty

06. Jacob

07. Naima

08. Paul

09. Stefano

10. Haley

post #28 of 93

OK, not sure if I needed to post this again or not, but here it is :-)

 

 

01. Scotty
02. Lauren
03. James
04. Jacob
05. Pia
06. Casey
07. Paul
08. Thia
09. Haley
10. Naima
 
post #29 of 93

Thank you Robert!

 

We're up to twelve entries already, with two more interested participants yet to submit their predictions.  At this rate, we should match last year's 20 or so.  But keep them coming!  Should I reiterate that Adam will be putting together a prize for the winner?  rock.gif

 

It did occur to me that tactically, I perhaps should have omitted Casey entirely: he seems to be a crowd and judge favourite, yet he finished bottom -- assuming no shenanigans or set-up by the producers, but who on earth knows these days?  That way, regardless of whether he finishes near top or is eliminated early, he won't impact my score if I get it badly wrong.  In contrast, IMHO I'm reasonably confident Stefano and Haley will be eliminated soon, and indeed I've therefore omitted Haley (on the basis that I think she would be next to go anyway), with Stefano at #10.  Infamously, a while back I omitted Kris Allen entirely, thinking he'd finish #11 or #12, yet he won the whole danged thing -- but that misjudgment didn't impact my score at all, while a full Top 12 prediction contest would have meant him costing me a whopping 10 or 11 points!  

 

In some respects, therefore, this contest isn't just about literally predicting the order in which you think the Final 12/13 will finish: tactically you can deliberately omit those you personally think might place well, but on the other hand are "erratic"; or conversely those whom you personally think aren't much good, yet might actually appeal to a whole different demographic.  It's all about reducing risk, I guess?

 

But then again, I didn't go with any of the above, I just predicted my Top 11 and omitted #11...  so I'm a fine one to talk... biggrin.gif

post #30 of 93
Thread Starter 

Yes, what appears to be a very simple "contest" on the surface actually has quite a bit of strategy involved for those who want to do their homework (monitoring sites like dialidol or whatever it's called.  And even then things can be quite unpredictable.  I have found in the past that I do best when I just go with my first instincts and submit a list of ten based on that.  Over analyzing this contest doesn't always pay dividends.

 

Like I said, the beauty of this contest is its apparent simplicity.  Easy to enter, but hard to nail it 100%.  Hopefully, next season we will be able to start the competition at the point where there are 12 contestants left and we submit TOP TEN lists (like last year.)

 

And regarding the prize package for the winner:  Each season Adam Gregorich (one of the owners of the HTF) puts together a package of DVDs (including Blu-rays) based on what the studios send him.  We don't announce what the prize will consist of because we always like to wait until we get near the end of American Idol (probably around Memorial Day).  That way we try to get some current DVD titles as well as some classic titles.  It doesn't cost anything to enter and staff members and their "families" aren't eligible for the prize - other than bragging rights for being the current American Idol HTF Challenge winner.  Unless I'm mistaken Aaron Silverman's wife Lucy won the title last year.  She supposedly will be back to defend her title as will Dheiner (John Dhein) who holds the record score of 9 points.  Once you start playing this game you begin to realize how impressive that score is.  And it probably will last a long, long time.

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