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2 'lesser quality' subs = 1 'good' sub? - Page 3

post #61 of 216
3/24/11 at 10:34am

I used the same 12ga wire that I run from the amp the speaker.  You do need a good soldering iron to heat that stuff up.

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post #62 of 216
3/24/11 at 10:35am

I used the same 12ga wire that I run from the amp the speaker.  You do need a good soldering iron to heat that stuff up.

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post #63 of 216
3/25/11 at 9:19am
Thread Starter 

partsexpress boxes arrived today.minor setback, one of the caps was backordered (even though the site says in stock). not sure when it will get here. 

 

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post #64 of 216
3/25/11 at 10:36am

The PE site does not give real time inventory information.  That sucks but it shouldn't slow you down from cabinet building.  Just don't put the fronts on and it will be easy to glue in the crossover boards.  Yes, boards.  I split my high pass and low pass into 2 separate boards when I build them.

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post #65 of 216
3/25/11 at 3:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post
  I split my high pass and low pass into 2 separate boards when I build them.

any reason? 
 

 

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post #66 of 216
3/25/11 at 7:07pm

Easier to fit into the cabinet.  The woofer section fits on a pegboard square in the bottom.  The tweeter section fits on the top.  I zip tie/hot glue the crossover to the board before gluing it in the cabinet.

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post #67 of 216
3/26/11 at 6:34am
Thread Starter 

these crossovers pretty much never need to come out, right?

i mean, i see people might want to mess around with some of the components to tweak the sound to perfection, but aside from that, they rarely break/fail/wear out, correct?

 

 

 

 

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post #68 of 216
3/26/11 at 7:52am

After about 20 years, you may have a cap start leaking.  I could replace it without ever removing the board.

 

People that tweak crossovers will set them up outside the enclosure and use a dual input terminal.  They can tweak all day and not have to remove a driver.  I don't know enough about crossover design to really want to do that.

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post #69 of 216
3/27/11 at 5:49pm
Thread Starter 

i have 2 braces per cabinet.

where do i put them? 

http://www.angelfire.com/music5/audio0/

between the bottom driver and the port and then somewhere below the port?

between the tweeter and the bottom driver and then just below the port?

it doesnt look from the picture that theres enough space between the driver and the tweeter. i could simply space them (the driver and tweeter) out a bit, but i dont know if they are placed closer together for some sound quality reasoning?

i also dont know if there necessarily needs to be a brace in the top 1/3 of the cabinet (i was assuming a brace 1/3 from the top and 1/3 from the bottom was the most logical.

 

thoughts?

 

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post #70 of 216
3/27/11 at 8:47pm

It is best NOT to put them at a point that divides the panel into chords.  That is, avoid 1/3, 1/4, or 1/2.  Instead, use 1/3 plus a little bit  and make the second one different from that.  Dividing the panel by 1/3  or whatever, sets a specific resonance for each panel that it divides.  You don't want six panels that are equally divided into thirds.  I hope that made sense.  Although for a sub, I am not so sure that it makes that much difference.  In a 2-way or 3-way speaker it would.

 

Nick

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post #71 of 216
3/28/11 at 4:47am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by winniw View Post

It is best NOT to put them at a point that divides the panel into chords.  That is, avoid 1/3, 1/4, or 1/2.  Instead, use 1/3 plus a little bit  and make the second one different from that.  Dividing the panel by 1/3  or whatever, sets a specific resonance for each panel that it divides.  You don't want six panels that are equally divided into thirds.  I hope that made sense.  Although for a sub, I am not so sure that it makes that much difference.  In a 2-way or 3-way speaker it would.

 

 

any thoughts on the driver spacing?

 

 

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post #72 of 216
3/28/11 at 5:32am

Squeeze the drivers as close as possible.  I can't find the original measurements so the closer the better.  Offset the tweeter and make the speakers mirror images.

 

As far as bracing is concerned, you can brace behind the tweeter if needed if you cut a notch into the brace.  I'd put one there, a corresponding one near the bottom at the same distance and finally one in the middle. 

 

 

Quote:
It is best NOT to put them at a point that divides the panel into chords.  That is, avoid 1/3, 1/4, or 1/2.

Can you please note your source for this information?  I built my first speaker in 1985 and I have never heard of this concept.

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post #73 of 216
3/28/11 at 8:45am
Thread Starter 

ok, so when i ordered the parts, i overlooked a couple things. speaker terminal, and the port.

i havent a clue why one speaker terminal is any better than any other one, or why i would want one particular model, so currently im planning to get this:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-311

tell me if theres a reason i should get a different one

 

now, on the dayton 8 page, the guy said the port was 4x4.5" and he gave a part number for pe, 260-328. pe doesnt make that port any more according to customer service and their website. tech support suggested a 260-480 which is 3 3/4 x 7 5/8 and said to cut it down to 4" long. i gave him the measurements from the dayton 8 page. he also told me that the part number 260-328 that was discontinued was 3 7/8 x 5". he said the 3 3/4 x 4" would give a tune of 31.9Hz based on the measurements i gave him off the dayton 8 page. the dayton 8 page said it was tuned to 32Hz.

i have no idea how significant these port dimensions are. should i wait to complete the box and get an exact measurement and then determine the port size, or am i splitting hairs unnecessarily?

at the moment, im planning on getting the 3 3/4 x 7 5/8 and cutting it down to 4" length. i am ready to hear alternate suggestions.

 

lastly, my backordered cap wont be in stock until the end of april. this doesnt mean anything to you guys, just letting you know how lucky i am. im going to order the cheap cap and run enough wire that i can pull the board out and switch out the cap when it comes in.

 

 

 

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post #74 of 216
3/28/11 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post

Can you please note your source for this information?  I built my first speaker in 1985 and I have never heard of this concept.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by winniw View Post

It is best NOT to put them at a point that divides the panel into chords.  That is, avoid 1/3, 1/4, or 1/2. 

 

 

Hi Robert,

 

Sorry, I cannot link to a specific source for this information.  I have come across this point many times, probably from the Loudspeaker Design Cookbook and most definitely from a forum that I was in years ago, called the "DIY Bass List" which is now www.diyspeakers.net

 

Nick

 

 

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post #75 of 216
3/30/11 at 4:50am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Thomass View Post

ok, so when i ordered the parts, i overlooked a couple things. speaker terminal, and the port.

i havent a clue why one speaker terminal is any better than any other one, or why i would want one particular model, so currently im planning to get this:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-311

tell me if theres a reason i should get a different one

 

now, on the dayton 8 page, the guy said the port was 4x4.5" and he gave a part number for pe, 260-328. pe doesnt make that port any more according to customer service and their website. tech support suggested a 260-480 which is 3 3/4 x 7 5/8 and said to cut it down to 4" long. i gave him the measurements from the dayton 8 page. he also told me that the part number 260-328 that was discontinued was 3 7/8 x 5". he said the 3 3/4 x 4" would give a tune of 31.9Hz based on the measurements i gave him off the dayton 8 page. the dayton 8 page said it was tuned to 32Hz.

i have no idea how significant these port dimensions are. should i wait to complete the box and get an exact measurement and then determine the port size, or am i splitting hairs unnecessarily?

at the moment, im planning on getting the 3 3/4 x 7 5/8 and cutting it down to 4" length. i am ready to hear alternate suggestions.

 

lastly, my backordered cap wont be in stock until the end of april. this doesnt mean anything to you guys, just letting you know how lucky i am. im going to order the cheap cap and run enough wire that i can pull the board out and switch out the cap when it comes in.

 

 

 

ok, so todays ordering day. lets hope my stuff is in stock!
 

 

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post #76 of 216
3/30/11 at 6:28am

Your port idea will work.  Just wait until the enclosure is built before cutting it down.  Check out the psp-inc.com site for a port calculator.

 

Those are the exact terminals that I use.

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post #77 of 216
3/30/11 at 8:08am

Mike,

 

Here is an option if they are out of stock on what you want.

 

I always use long bolt, individual binding posts.  They are very high quality for the price and I don't have to cut another hole but just drill a couple of holes.  Here is an example.  They are good for up to 1" thick cabinets.

 

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=091-1245 

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post #78 of 216
4/1/11 at 11:47am
Thread Starter 

ok, just fine tuning the router jig (homemade i might add!) to cut the holes for the woofers and tweeters.

 

heres a question i probably should have asked a long time ago:

 

i was planning to use these as the fronts, and build a center and a sub woofer.

will these do fine as fronts alone or are they more geared toward being used in a system without a sub? and, if thats the case, would i be wasting my time building a sub? 

 

i think i can answer my own question:

the receiver will send all the signals that are 80hz (or whatever it is set for) and below to the sub, and higher will go the these mains, center, etc. correct? so a sub will be needed and thus built, by me, soon, i hope

 

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post #79 of 216
4/1/11 at 12:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post

Squeeze the drivers as close as possible.  I can't find the original measurements so the closer the better.  Offset the tweeter and make the speakers mirror images.

 

 

if you look at the dayton 8 page, those drivers appear to be about 6 inches apart. is that what you mean by 'squeeze them as close as possible' or would you expect like 1" between them and the tweeter offest way to the side?

problem appears to be that to get the drivers very close together and also fit the tweeter somewhere between the drivers (height wise), the drivers will need to be pushed to the edge of the front and the tweeter pushed to the other edge of the front.

 

i just laid out the drivers and the tweeter. i can get the drivers about 3.5" apart if i push them to about 1/4" from the side and snug the tweeter in between but it will be about 1/2' from the edge of the drivers.

sound good? is there a problem with the drivers and tweeter being so close to the sides of the cabinet? (1/4" or so)
 

 

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post #80 of 216
4/1/11 at 12:10pm

The woofers are on the center line.  The tweeter is slightly offset so that the woofers can be a little closer together.

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post #81 of 216
4/9/11 at 11:08am
Thread Starter 

robert, you have any suggestions for the center and surrounds?

i might as well start on those as well

 

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post #82 of 216
4/9/11 at 6:41pm

You can do a Dayton III as a center.  That's what I run.  And Dayton II's as surrounds.  Same tweeter throughout and the woofers are from the classic line.  Same guy designed the crossovers for all 3 so they will all sound similar.

 

If you have room, can you do a horizontal D8?

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post #83 of 216
4/10/11 at 7:11am
Thread Starter 

if the horizontal D8 would be 49" wide, then i would have to think it over. if we would take the width down to something similar to the D3, then that would be fine. but the D8 even at the full 49" might still be ok because i have a big tv that it could sit on anyway (speakers can sit on the tv, right? no worries about interference or anything?)

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post #84 of 216
4/10/11 at 4:15pm

If the TV is a newer flat screen, no problem sitting on a speaker.

 

You can adjust the "width" of the D8 center and make it deeper to keep the same enclosure volume.  It's not optimum.  On the the other hand, a DIII center isn't either but I've been running one for years and wouldn't trade it for anything.

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post #85 of 216
4/10/11 at 6:04pm
Thread Starter 

the tv is an 8 year old 65" rear projection. so theres plenty of room on top. just wasnt sure if their would be any interference.

if it wont cause any problems, maybe i will just make a D8 for the center, and a couple D3 for surround? or are the D3 overkill for surrounds?

 

 

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post #86 of 216
4/10/11 at 6:48pm

With a rear projection TV, the electronics are on the bottom.  No interference if the center channel is on top.

 

D3's are overkill.  DII's will work fine.

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post #87 of 216
4/11/11 at 7:08am
Thread Starter 

thanks brother

 

so either a d3 or d8 center, and a pair of d2's. and i dont even remember if we ironed out a sub design, but i will do that as well. gonna go re-check this thread smile.gif

 

oh, i messed up something when cutting the speaker holes:

i very very carefully measured all the centers for the drivers and tweeters on both fronts, and it never dawned on me until i started routing the second tweeter that i forgot to mirror it. so the first cut is on the wrong side. so, i figured it was either fill it with some filler, or start the panel over. with all the sanding and painting i will be doing, do you think the filler will be noticeable in the finished product? im really hoping i dont have to start over with a new front panel. the front panel isnt glued on yet, so if it is going to show, i can start over.

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post #88 of 216
4/11/11 at 7:46am
Thread Starter 

robert

this post http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/309547/2-lesser-quality-subs-1-good-sub#post_3790122 was where we left off in our sub discussion it appears.

so, you recommended so subs off ebay. is there any chance we could use something from parts express? i dont use ebay and i could save on some shipping. 

 

if parts express is no good, maybe something like this:http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_27304_RE-Audio-SRX12D4.html

also, im not clear on whether i would need the D2 or D4 version.

 

lastly, does my receiver influence what sub we work with (4ohm, 2ohm, 8ohm, whatever)? 

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post #89 of 216
4/11/11 at 10:41am

Filler is not noticeable.  In fact, on the DIII center I'm working on, I had the tweeter hole closer to one woofer by 1/2".  As soon as you put it on it's side, the mistake was clearly visible.  I made a plug for it and glued it in slightly below the surface of the baffle.  I used Bondo to raise the level up and sand it smooth.  Now that I am in the process of painting all 3 DIII's, I can't tell which one I made the mistake on just by looking.

 

PE subs were more expensive.  For example, the Dayton HF (part #295-466) 12" are $138 each and they have 12mm of excursion.  The RE was cheaper with 18mm of excursion.  If you do choose to go with a pair of RE subs, then get dual 2 ohm coils.  You could also go with a single 15" RE sub.  If you go that route, dual 4 ohm voice coils are the way to go.  I assume you are going with the A-500 amp.

 

Since your receiver is sending a pre-amp level signal to the sub amp, the sub has no impact at all on the receiver.  It does have an impact on the sub amp though.  The A-500 will drive a 4 ohm load in stereo so that is the type of sub I was looking for.  If you want to get a better amp, the EP-2500/EP-4000 is a great choice.  That's what I use to power my dual 15's.  I run it in stereo and each of my subs is a 2 ohm nominal load.  At 20hz, I can feed them about 800w each.  That combination is awesome.

 

I recently had David from FixMySpeaker dot com build me a single 15" sub that can replace both of my current 15's.  I started with a 15" Konaki motor (magnet structure), Eclipse Ti basket and David's custom soft parts.  I tested it in a friend's car with an amp that puts out about 2,000w and it beat me like a prize fighter.

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post #90 of 216
4/11/11 at 11:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post

  I used Bondo 

is this the stuff??

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1383207
 

 

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