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A few words about...™ Bambi -- in Blu-ray - Page 3

post #61 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick McCart View Post

I think the "refurbishing" is an asset to the films. Part of what makes Disney's films so endearing is the general timelessness. Stripping away age-related artifacts and inherent artifacts created by film does give the illusion of the films looking brand new. It does help modern audiences easily get taken in by a great animated classic without having to look through grain and dust.

 

Disney isn't wrecking the films (other than the regrettable editorial issues on Fantasia) compared to what's happening to other films. I'm just happy that their image tweaking is relatively careful compared to the reckless work at other studios.


What reckless work are you referring to? Sure, every studio has made some mistakes, but Disney seems to be the only one that is delibaretely altering the colors to prevent them look dated. However, Disney has no problem advertising Dumbo with the "70th Anniversary" banner, so it seems a bit odd to not want them to seem dated, but do advertise its anniversary.

Also, if we're just focusing on the colors, the average consumers (and their children) don't really care about the colors, I think. If it's sharp, and devoid of grain, then it's more or less all right with them. The movie fans want the original colors, so why wouldn't Disney cater to us? Replacing the logos is also a really moronic movie, since only we would care about the logos in the first place.

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post #62 of 79

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Borst View Post

Replacing the logos is also a really moronic movie, since only we would care about the logos in the first place.


On the contrary, associating the content with current Disney branding is probably very important to Disney's marketing department.

post #63 of 79

Disney restored the RKO logo to Snow White, Pinocchio (even though the actual credits are the re-release version), Fantasia (during the Intermission title card), Dumbo, and Alice in Wonderland. The logo wasn't lost or damaged during the 1990s when it was included on that release. It just seems odd that it isn't included here. Is this transfer the same one used on the Platinum Edition?

post #64 of 79

DVDBeaver has screencaps and specs out. Damned if I can see any difference in colors between the Blu-ray and the DVD Platinum edition. Anyway, they say the disc is dual-layered with the feature taking up 14GB and 40GB of space used. That leaves about 10GB of free space. Whether or not that would have been enough for the inclusion of lossless audio, I've no idea.

post #65 of 79
Thread Starter 

Single language lossless audio is a pittance, especially for a film the length of Zelig.

post #66 of 79

perhaps uncompressed audio in some older films are not waranted due to the quality of what they are working with. It may add more analog artifacts. I remember this discussion over the African Queen release. I bet if uncompressed audio would have made a difference they will use it.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FanboyZ View Post

Lossy audio should never be used on BD, DTS should be ashamed they even created another lossy codec.
Disney on the other hand should recall BAMBI and re-author it with DTS-HD Master Audio!!!
post #67 of 79

Those screen caps look amazing.  As always, I'll reserve judgment until I can actually watch the disc, but the colors seem to match the earlier DVD edition.  Background textures appear intact.  I can't wait to get this....

 

post #68 of 79

How odd that I've reacted so unkindly to this disc when the DVDBeaver screenshots seem so similar...

 

I didnt feel too kindly towards the second half of Fantasia either, but I was happily blown away by its first half..

 

I guess the "line of beauty" can be a highly individual and idiosyncratic thing, like a sense of humour.  No apologies from my side, though; something isn't quite kicking there for me which I felt was present on the previous release.  A grainy pinch of fairy dust, perhaps...

post #69 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Silverman View Post


On the contrary, associating the content with current Disney branding is probably very important to Disney's marketing department.



And that's being done by altering a logo? Would anyone who started it up and see the RKO logo think "oh, this isn't a Disney movie"? I don't believe that. And in any case, they could have put the new logo before the movie, while still leaving the original card intact. They've done it for all most of the Classics. Since Beauty and the Beast's logo was replaced too, I hope this won't set a precedent.

post #70 of 79

I wasn't saying that *I* think it's a great idea.

post #71 of 79

They simply put the Disney logo before RKO on other editions.

 

It's a pity when it's part of the film rather than a stock logo. Both Toy Story films also had logo replacement, which resulted in some of the music getting cut off.

post #72 of 79

I didn't know that about Toy Story. I haven't purchased the blu-rays yet. Seriously, why would they mess with the actual film like that? That is worse than the Bambi situation...didn't the original Disney logo fade into Andy's wall in the first Toy Story? At least I still have my 1995(?) Bambi vhs with the RKO logo. It is blue/green with leaves surrounding it, similar to the Bambi title card.

post #73 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Borst View Post





And that's being done by altering a logo? Would anyone who started it up and see the RKO logo think "oh, this isn't a Disney movie"? I don't believe that. 


There are people who refer to any movie that children like as a Disney movie. I have heard acquaintances slap the label onto The Wizard of Oz and The Sound of Music as well as non-Disney animated films.

 

But removing logos, especially custom-made ones, is appalling to me. I consider it historical revisionism.

post #74 of 79

Saw this on BD over the weekend. Looks pretty stunning to me. I have no way of knowing what the film looked like in 1942 (or what it was supposed to look like), but the colors on this thing are among the most vibrant I have ever seen. (Did Bambi always have red eyes?) I saw the film in the early 70s as a child (and of course, I don't remember what the color scheme was), and again on video in the 80s and 90s, and again on DVD in the last 7 years or so. Seems to me that with each release, the film is cleaned up and made to look more vibrant. What would one consider the "base" of what it is supposed to look like? In any case, it's a visual marvel, and my kids - who have never seen it before - were gripped by the whole thing.

 

 

post #75 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Favate View Post

 What would one consider the "base" of what it is supposed to look like? 



 Have you ever been to the movies and seen a film projected?

post #76 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Calvert View Post

 Have you ever been to the movies and seen a film projected?


Sure, but in the case of Bambi, I was a small child, and have no recollection of what it was. Nor was I in a theater in 1942 when it first was shown. I doubt anyone who was and is still around can recall color vibrancy, and other similar details, etc. Without that knowledge, what is the "base" of what the film is supposed to look like?

 

post #77 of 79



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Borst View Post




What reckless work are you referring to? Sure, every studio has made some mistakes, but Disney seems to be the only one that is delibaretely altering the colors to prevent them look dated. However, Disney has no problem advertising Dumbo with the "70th Anniversary" banner, so it seems a bit odd to not want them to seem dated, but do advertise its anniversary.

Also, if we're just focusing on the colors, the average consumers (and their children) don't really care about the colors, I think. If it's sharp, and devoid of grain, then it's more or less all right with them. The movie fans want the original colors, so why wouldn't Disney cater to us? Replacing the logos is also a really moronic movie, since only we would care about the logos in the first place.


 

After reading through this thread I bought the new Blu-ray of Bambi, despite already having a VHS and DVD version and not originally intending to do so.  The main reason was because all this talk about Disney "changing" the colors from the original colors.  I have a 16mm Technicolor IB print of Bambi that I've had since the early 60's and has perfect color that hasn't faded over the years.  I'm not sure whether it was from the initial release or whether it was made 10 or 15 years after.  The sound track is a variable density track and while the sound is "okay" for a print of that vintage, it's obviously nowhere near the quality of the sound on this new Blu-ray.  However, RAH is correct when he says it doesn't really matter when the quality of the original elements are taken into consideration.  If they were going to do lossless audio now, it would require the film's whole audio track to be completely re-equalized, rolling off most of the higher and lower frequencies, since most of the very high and low frequencies would probably be carrying nothing but noise, even on the original elements.  When you consider that until the 70's the optical tracks on release prints were still using the "academy curve", which rolled off anything above 8kz, we're lucky the tracks can be sweetened as good they are on the Blu-ray.
 
As for the color, the Bambi Blu-ray colors look nearly identical to my print.  Maybe there might be very slightly more contrast on the Blu-ray.  The color saturation is nearly identical (and that is dependant on the proper calibration of your projector or monitor).  The ONLY way you can compare color (other than using a spectroradiometer) is either side by side or A/B.  Nobody, no matter what they believe, can "recall" what colors looked like, even from yesterday.
 
What I find more interesting is that NOBODY, not even the "purists" have complained about the titles on ALL these Disney films.  For some reason they've found it necessary to reduce the title screen size, despite the fact that if it was "normal", none of the titles would be cropped.  That's how everyone knows I'm projecting a Blu-ray and not running film (although in the case of Bambi, the film also starts with RKO Radio Pictures logo). 
 
Before anyone questions me or my motives, I have no connection to, nor am I an apologist for Disney, but, I believe that other than the title problem, they have done an excellent job, so far, of transferring their animated classics to Blu-ray.  When evaluating a transfer to DVD or Blu-ray, what the original film looked like in the theatre must also be taken into consideration.  I've run thousands of films over the years and can tell you that some films are just naturally soft and some are razor sharp and then there's everything in between.  So these things, in addition to color, sound, etc. have to be considered when evaluating the quality of a transfer. 


 

 

post #78 of 79
Thread Starter 

Like Beauty and the Beast, Bambi goes "back to the vault" on April 30, which means it's out of production.

 

RAH

post #79 of 79
I hadn't seen Bambi since I was very young, so viewing it on blu ray (108" projector screen) was essentially a first for me. I was blown away by the sheer artistry of it, amazing backgrounds, character animation, and the naturalistic voice acting of the young actors. I don't think there's been anything like it since. There's a purity and strength to it that transcends what people think of as corny today. If you haven't seen Bambi, or have only vague memories of it, and you're an animation fan, don't wait, grab it.
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