Strange Problem With Star Trek-TMP Blu-ray

It looks that way on my boxset US copy as well.

Just checked this out on my US boxset copy.  My insignias are definitely green.

I'm not an expert on this but according to the podcast commentary for the DE of TMP, the original release didn't get a proper color grade in 1979 due to being rushed for the premiere. Its possible that this is a mistake that got left in.

I swear I heard something about this in the past, but I can't remember where or when.   Not very helpful, I know.  I did, however, go back and look at the DE DVD and the old VHS "Special Longer Version," and the insignia was definitely red in both.

- Mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Dalek 

I'm not an expert on this but according to the podcast commentary for the DE of TMP, the original release didn't get a proper color grade in 1979 due to being rushed for the premiere. Its possible that this is a mistake that got left in.

If that's the case, then it should be on the widescreen laserdisc set too, which is also the original theatrical version.  If I think about it, I could check it out tonight - but, I'll probably forget.  However, I don't have the BD to compare it with.

Paramount probably thought they'd gotten away with this one...

I just checked my blu-ray, and my Director’s Cut DVD. The stripe on the blu-ray is green.  Its hard to tell on the DVD, because the whole image is darker, but it looks like the stripe is red there.

However I think the problem you are seeing has something to do with the original optical composite, rather than the video transfer. If you look at the stripe on the top of the travel pod, it is still bright red. I'm wondering if the color was corrected for this on all of the other video versions, but someone just forgot about it this time. Again I have no idea if this problem exists on the original film, but it looks a great deal like a optical problem to me.

There are optical compositing issues all through out this film, which is one reason I wish Paramount would allow them to go back to the original elements and digitally re-composite every optical shot when they upgrade the Director's Cut to HD.

Doug

Found a screen cap of the Blu-ray (thank you Trekcore.com).

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmphd/tmphd0373.jpg 

The stripes and circle under the silver arrow are definitely green.  On my laserdisc, it was definitely red.  However, looking at the two stripes at the top of the interconnecting dorsal neck near the saucer, those are still red.  Look at the trailing ends of those two, now "green", pennant stripes and they turn reddish.

The latent conspiracy theorist in me wants to say that it looks doctored and purposely changed to green - because everything else in the scene looks right.

But, that's probably not what really happend...

Yet, I don't think anyone could "fix" just that little bit to look red on the wisescreen laserdisc transfer done back in (I believe) 1991. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Fontenot 

Found a screen cap of the Blu-ray (thank you Trekcore.com).

 

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmphd/tmphd0373.jpg 

 

The stripes and circle under the silver arrow are definitely green.  On my laserdisc, it was definitely red.  However, looking at the two stripes at the top of the interconnecting dorsal neck near the saucer, those are still red.  Look at the trailing ends of those two, now "green", pennant stripes and they turn reddish.

 

The latent conspiracy theorist in me wants to say that it looks doctored and purposely changed to green - because everything else in the scene looks right.

 

But, that's probably not what really happend...

 

Yet, I don't think anyone could "fix" just that little bit to look red on the wisescreen laserdisc transfer done back in (I believe) 1991. 

The da Vinci Renaissance color correction system was available in 1989 and allowed for the isolation of specific parts of the frame, and specific colors.

I don't know if it was used on the transfer for the laserdisc, but it was possible at the time.

Doug

Great screen cap! And one of the most beautiful miniatures built for a movie.

I have the Photostory book for Star Trek TMP. On one page, there is a still from about 2 or 3 frames before the screencap above. While it's smaller and not as sharp, the stripes and emblem look red to me. Plus you can see the ceiling of Space Dock is very blue-ish in the screencap. It is a reddish rust color in the other shots and in the book, so it does look like an optical problem, like all the cyan was taken out. 

BTW, This is a really cool book of you happen to own it. It is the theatrical cut obviously and the shots are blow-ups taken from the anamorphic frames as credited in the front pages. Of course this is not any kind of definitive evidence for what is going on, but as the book credits, it is from the film source and the book was published in 1980.

Tonight I'll be checking out all my laserdiscs, and DVD's! Plus a video tape from the earliest HBO broadcast if I can find it, from about 1980.

I think I have that book, but it's a little paperback-sized version.  Mine's missing the cover as it came from a library sale in the late 80s.

Looking at the screen cap, I never would have noticed that in the movie...

It looks to me like someone just applied auto colour correction to that shot and didn't look at it too closely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nelson Au 

Great screen cap! And one of the most beautiful miniatures built for a movie.

 

I have the Photostory book for Star Trek TMP. On one page, there is a still from about 2 or 3 frames before the screencap above. While it's smaller and not as sharp, the stripes and emblem look red to me. Plus you can see the ceiling of Space Dock is very blue-ish in the screencap. It is a reddish rust color in the other shots and in the book, so it does look like an optical problem, like all the cyan was taken out. 

 

BTW, This is a really cool book of you happen to own it. It is the theatrical cut obviously and the shots are blow-ups taken from the anamorphic frames as credited in the front pages. Of course this is not any kind of definitive evidence for what is going on, but as the book credits, it is from the film source and the book was published in 1980.

 

Tonight I'll be checking out all my laserdiscs, and DVD's! Plus a video tape from the earliest HBO broadcast if I can find it, from about 1980.

I have that book too. Haven't looked at it in years.

I just can't figure out why the stripe on the Enterprise would be green, yet the stripe on the shuttle is red.

Doug

I wish I collected those photo novels of TOS!

I didn't have HBO and I knew someone who did, so he was nice enough to record it for me, in all it's pan and scan glory! I haven't seen that tape in ages!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nelson Au 

Okay, I've seen Star Trek The Motion Picture Enterprise fly-by 4 times!

Before I say anything else, the kids of today have it so good! I watched the full screen Special Longer Version laserdisc from 1987 or so. The image quality was sooo bad! The widescreen laserdisc edition from 1991 looked slightly better. The 2001 DE DVD was a jump in quality. Love the new version of Vulcan, it was hard to see the theatrical version! But the blu ray just blew them all away!

The red stripe and disc on the secondary hull was green and fading to red as it got closer to the rear, and the dock ceiling was bluish green too on the blu ray. I wonder if it could have been blue screen reflections, but I don't think they used blue screen on that sequence.

They were red in all other editions I have. You can still see the mount on the side of Enterprise secondary hull as it leaves space dock on the blu ray.

I can't wait to see the DE on blu ray!

By the way, almost forgot to mention, I had posted screen caps of that shot above for the DE of Star Trek 1 and 2. I posted them because I was surprised how much better that shot looked in TWoK verses TMP. If you're curious, it's here: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/248994/remastered-star-trek-films-anytime-soon#post_3051916

I believe you are right. If I recall correctly the dry dock sequence was photographed against black rather than a blue screen.

The main difference between the TWOK and the TMP shots, is WOK has proper black and white levels. The contrast is set correctly. The director's cut of TMP has a really dull look to it because everything is gray. There are no solid blacks or whites. As a result WOK LOOK sharper when it really isn't.

Doug

I just checked WOK on blu-ray, and the stripe is in fact red. Also looking up at the space dock above the Enterprise, the panel is copper colored rather than blue.

Interestingly Daren Dochterman, on the TMP blu-ray commentary, states that the transfer used for the blu-ray is the same one that was made for director’s cut. He said that it’s the only time the color timing was correct, in that the deflector dish of the Enterpriseis amber when they are not at warp, and blue when they are. This was a specific correction that Robert Wise asked them to do for the director’s cut, and that much of that color timing remains in the blu-ray edition. So in actuality, the color timing on this blu-ray was supervised by Robert Wise.

In all of the other films the deflector dish just stays blue all the time. 

Doug

I noticed the deflector dish being amber in all earlier versions when the Enterprise was at subwarp or idling, and I did hear Dochterman discuss that. What I can't understand, if TMP is color correct, is why that one shot has the green in it! It's got to be a glitch that got past them when preparing for blu ray.

As an aside, this blu ray of TMP is amazing in how it just reveals the poor make-up job on Nimoy! On the TV series blu rays, the make-up was consistently greenish on his face and ears. In the film, there was patches of green and areas his own natural skin tone comes through. And it's very clear to see where the ear appliance is!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nelson Au 

I noticed the deflector dish being amber in all earlier versions when the Enterprise was at subwarp or idling, and I did hear Dochterman discuss that. What I can't understand, if TMP is color correct, is why that one shot has the green in it! It's got to be a glitch that got past them when preparing for blu ray.

 

As an aside, this blu ray of TMP is amazing in how it just reveals the poor make-up job on Nimoy! On the TV series blu rays, the make-up was consistently greenish on his face and ears. In the film, there was patches of green and areas his own natural skin tone comes through. And it's very clear to see where the ear appliance is!

I think you're right that it is some kind of glitch. What caused it I have no idea. However I can see how it would be easy to miss in a QC session. After all it was out on the market for months (or has it been over a year now) before anyone noticed and posted  it here.

Doug

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick H. 

Well, after all the color issues people noted in the digital restoration of Star Wars, this one looks to me to be up the same alley: the computer got confused. This is why I've grown tired of trying to keep my collection updated...these new digital tools can do wonders for older films, it's true, but in the hi-def realm it seems they're being applied in increasingly sketchy ways. A shot like that, which took lots of craft and man-hours to pull off, goofed in seconds by an indiscriminate algorithm...

It maybe a simply rendering error. Its not unheard of for that sort of thing to happen. I've seen things like that happen with my own work, then you re-render and the mistake corrects itself.

Doug