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post #151 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Calvert View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S View PostBAMBI is a good example. The aging of the film gave that particular movie a soft, pastel look that I found rather appealing given the subject matter. When it was released on DVD, it had been cleaned and processed so much that it looked like it had virtually been shot the day before. It looked just like any of Disney's recent 2D animations such as Aladdin. The whole thing looked sort of flat to me and I thought that they had overdone it on trying to remove all signs of grain or age. It looked like it had been entirely recoloured and the backgrounds appeared to have lost some of the illusion of depth. Unfortunately, I doubt that there is anyone who would agree with me that removing all signs of aging from a film might actually be a bad thing because it also removes some of the character.


What? No one is advocating presenting film with age related defects like faded colors. Bambi looked the way you remembered not because the colors were faded but because that's what the colors where!

 

It has nothing to do with leaving age related defects and everything to do with returning something to its original state. That is where the character lies.
 


That's my point. It's entirely subjective. I feel that Bambi lost some of its character because the age related colour fading was how I had always seen the film. The "pastel" look of the film appealed to me. The restored film looks good, but I think it has lost some character that delineated it from Disney's new output. All of Disney's "new" output looks flat, especially in the background art. Disney's old classics had background art far superior to anything in their recent films, but the constant attempts to make their old films look "as good as new" has only resulted in making them look like their "new" films, which to me do not have the depth of artistry to backgrounds as the old classics. 

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post #152 of 169

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S View Post

I feel that Bambi lost some of its character because the age related colour fading was how I had always seen the film. The "pastel" look of the film appealed to me. The restored film looks good, but I think it has lost some character that delineated it from Disney's new output.

 

I am responding to your mistaken assumption that the color you remember in Bambi is due to age-related fading. It is not. That's what it's supposed to look like. The bambi released on DVD is not "restored". It's "re-imagined".

post #153 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post





That isn't aging. Technicolor doesn't fade. That's the color palette of the original film. Snow White originally had a very subdued palette too, but you'd never know it from the video releases. The color balances on the Disney animated features have been "corrected" to suit "modern tastes". The trailer for Alice on Fantasia looks pretty accurate, so I have high hopes for that one, but I'm probably a fool.

 

Whoops. I just read this. Okay, thanks for the correction. I thought that look was the result of aging. The main thing is that I preferred that subdued palette. The colour "correction" has made all of the old classics look just like any of the recent stuff that Disney put out, and that includes "Beauty and The Beast". Their new stuff is fine, but it does not have the artistic level of the old classics, especially in the backgrounds. The constant tinkering to meet "modern tastes" has resulted in these older animated films losing some of their character.

post #154 of 169
Precisely.

If you want a vivid example of the degree of manipulation check out how many different sets of colors the orange fairy sports in the bluray of Sleeping Beauty.... And none of them are orange!
post #155 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Calvert View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S View Post

I feel that Bambi lost some of its character because the age related colour fading was how I had always seen the film. The "pastel" look of the film appealed to me. The restored film looks good, but I think it has lost some character that delineated it from Disney's new output.

 

I am responding to your mistaken assumption that the color you remember is Babmbi is due to age-related fading. It is not. That's what it's supposed to look like. The bambi released on DVD is not "restored". It's "re-imagined".


laugh.gif Okay. Thanks to you as well for the correction. I always thought that look was age related, not as a result of Disney tampering with the colour balance. In any case, I wish Disney would release these old films with the orginal palettes.
 

post #156 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Precisely.

If you want a vivid example of the degree of manipulation check out how many different sets of colors the orange fairy sports in the bluray of Sleeping Beauty.... And none of them are orange!


I've got this one. I'll check it out, tonight. Thanks for the suggestion.

post #157 of 169

Is the Laserdisc of Bambi closer to the original colors?

post #158 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverWook View Post

Is the Laserdisc of Bambi closer to the original colors?


 

If you mean the 55th anniversary one, not by a country mile. That was just about the worst video representation of a Disney film I have seen, keeping in mind the limitations of telecine technology during the Ron Miller era (pre-1984).

post #159 of 169
THe laserdisc of Bambi was the first time Disney used its intrusive technique of rotoscoping the characters off the background, cleaning them up separately, and then comping them back together. They neglected to clean up every frame of the character when they went into holds, resulting in terrible looking video freezes.. They replaced sound effects in the dog and fire sequence with modern stereo effects. The greens and oranges were exaggerated like crazy in this transfer. It's probably the worst of the worst.
post #160 of 169

Jesus.  I have that one, and the Platinum DVD, but have yet to watch either one of them.  How depressing.

post #161 of 169

About Fantasia:

 

The new BD is fantastic, the best this movie has ever looked and sounded. I have seen it many times in the theater, starting in the late 60s, and this is better than every other release of the film.

 

I wish the real extras were included, but I have retained the old DVD set.

 

As to Deems Taylor, like Glenn Erickson (DVD Savant) I think I might have preferred that Deems' original voice be retained wherever possible, and the new dub be a "mismatch," so that I know when it is him and when it is the dubber. But this isn't a big issue for me.

 

This movie is art. Even Picasso admired Disney's animated films.

post #162 of 169
Picasso? I've never heard that? What did he say? I can't imagine Picasso liking Disney at all.
post #163 of 169

Picasso wasn't impressed by the "style" of drawing in animation — very 19th century. But he wrote to Disney, saying that, for the first time, an artist could "go inside the canvas, turn left or right, and see what's in there."

 

I believe he wrote this in a letter to Disney, in the 60s. I read it in the Picasso biography.

post #164 of 169
That sounds like a reference to Disneyland.
post #165 of 169

I have to agree that they went a bit too far on digital clean-up of FANTASIA.  The film contains so many scenes where detailed brush strokes are part of the overall feel of the film. It and PINOCCHIO are unlike any other films made by Disney.  For some reason, PINOCCHIO, to my eyes at least, has been able to keep much of the texture of the paint whilst playing down the heavy grain of the film stock used at that time.  It works.  FANTASIA looks as if it has been scrubbed.  It actually looks less-detailed in places.  It's a minor nitpick of a transfer of which I'm generally quite pleased.

post #166 of 169
Pinocchio has a different set of problems, primarily dealing with color balances. The first laserdisc release appeared to have been transferred from an original Technicolor print. The colors were very accurate and warm. The bluray has a greenish tint to some scenes, like Geppetto's workshop that was originally a warm orange glow. Also, some effects, like the ripple glass depicting heat rising on the fireplace were smoothed over a lot. Certain primary colors were over emphasized too.

The most accurate transfer of a Disney feature that I've seen is the Mexican bluray of Dumbo. But that has an absolutely horrible 7:1 soundtrack and no original mono alternative. You can't win for losing with Disney animated features.
post #167 of 169

Okay this might be a very stupid question , but I pressed the 7.1 channel sound of the 1940 version and the soundtrack was mono - I am I missing something? The menu was stereo but the film wasn't - ????  

post #168 of 169

I just finally got my 5.1 system hooked up yesterday (after moving several months ago), and the first blu-ray I tried was Fantasia.... I had sound in all 5 speakers.  I would assume you've got a setting off someplace, mate.

 

Speaking of the Fantasia blu-ray, the doc/promo pieces on the Disney Family Museum and the Schultheis Notebook blew my mind.  I've been meaning to visit San Francisco again for several years... looks like I have yet another reason.  Have any of you seen the museum/Schultheis notebook in person?

 

post #169 of 169

I've been to the Museum and it is excellent. Very much a museum and not a theme park, so I would not take kids under 12 unless they are very arts / education oriented. My family spent a good 4-5 hours walking through and we read "only" 50-60% of the displays.

 

Some of the highlights were the awards room in the lobby (the only place you can take pictures - I got one of the cabinet with many of the Oscars, including the Special Oscar for Snow White), one original drawing from McCay's Gertie the Dinosaur, the train from his estate (complete with picture of Dali riding it), a model of Disneyland c. 1967 (with moving parts!), and just the general design of the museum itself, which changes depending on the era being depicted. The room with all the newspaper strips / tribute cartoons at his death was especially moving.

 

Highly, highly recommended.

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