MOD Programs: The Official HTF "Pros & Cons" Discussion Thread - Page 3

Thanks. It is true that the Archive titles do tend to show up on other sites, such as Amazon, the coverage is often patchy and there can be a long wait between release on Warner itself and the listing elsewhere. Special sets - such as the Chaney pack - tend not to show up at all.

 

There is also the difficulty that prices are higher, and no access to special offers or discount codes.

 

Lastly, and I appreciate that this really is a peculiarity of buying overseas, there is the issue of import taxes. In most of Europe the "Personal Import Allowance", that is the value of goods one may import as an individual without attracting Customs fees and other taxes, is very low. It is currently around US$26 for me here in the UK. As one can see, it is therefore necessary to buy Archive titles one at a time - else there is an additional 20% in tax to pay plus the carrier's "administrative fee" for processing the tax, this is typically US$15 here.

 

Other countries are more generous (Americans get $100, and those lucky Aussies get AUS$400!). Sadly Europe is an insular and protective enclave where lot sof things are overpriced, so there's a powerful lobby that staunchly opposes people buying stuff cheaper overseas.

 

Access to the sales and discounts could mitigate this.

 

Unfortunately, I suspect the the reply from Warner will be negative. No studio anywhere sells product direct to customers outside the domestic area. Rights and copyright are often cited as the problem, but I suspect it is more to do with the additional costs of administering overseas sales, since it includes shipping problems plus each package has to be accompanied by a CN22 Customs Declaration.

 

I think that the trickle-down of releases to third parties such as Amazon is in fact Warner's way of dealing with the overseas-buyer problem.

 

They  somewhat rashly committed to overseas selling  at the start"where rights permit" before, I think, investigating the problems it implies. Certainly, the facility to ship overseas was pulled very quickly.

I'm inclined to think that the logistics of international shipping isn't that big of a problem; on my orders from amazon.uk, the required customs declaration is part of the computer-generated mailing label. Various carriers have different procedures, policies and costs, of course, but my latest amazon.uk order was government postal all the way, Royal Mail on their end and USPS on mine, and there were no problems.

The NYTimes also published an article March 4, 2011 called "Goodbye, DVD. Hello, Future," talking about the decline of DVD and the wave of the future -- MOD, Blu-ray and streaming. It makes a good point about how "format changes invariably leave legions of once widely available titles in limbo."  "Vast numbers of films, once commonly available," are "lost in that transition," first from 16mm to VHS, then VHS to Laserdisc and DVD, and now to Blu-ray. The better the format, the more the older titles need remastering to fully take advantage of it, and the less that will happen due to the expense. The article argues that downshifting to the specs of VHS -- ie, MOD and streaming -- may cause harder to find films to finally become available again, all at the cost of being denied a visual and audio upgrade.

 

Even the mainstream media is now noticing the trends.

Edited by jdee28 - 3/7/11 at 8:27pm

 

You and me both buddy.  I dread the day that the only way to see a classic is by streaming.  I love holding it in my hands and reading the cover again and again.  I also know many others like to do the same thing, so hopefully this will keep streaming at bay.  This is also why I have embraced the MOD programs.  If they are successful then streaming may not be that advantageous to the companies.  Not supporting MOD programs, will not bring back pressed DVD's it will only limit what is available. But each of us have the right to our own thoughts on the subject. 
 

 

Agree.  While I regretted the implementation of the MOD programs, I must now support them.

In my opinion, support for MOD will have little to no influence on streaming.  It's simply allowing the studios to generate some sort of income against the inevitable cost of converting their catalogs into a digital format.  The MOD audience and the streaming audience are two completely different market segments, with streaming potentially being huge.  The MOD audience is already as big as it's going to get.  I've always looked at MOD as simply a stop-gap measure to fill the void until streaming becomes mainstream while defraying from the cost of converting catalogs for the digital age.  Of course it's just my opinion, but the same folks who tend to be physical media or nothing, are also the same folks buying MODs.  The mere fact that MODs exist instead of continuing with pressed discs tells us that the size of this audience, while not insignificant, is far from the majority.  This smaller audience is not going to make or break streaming at all.

Of course we'd all rather have regular pressed DVDs, but the new reality of MODs & streaming is here to stay.

 

Over all, I think streaming is great as it a much cheaper way for studios to distribute content. This, in turn, allows for studios to dig deeper in to their vaults.
 

 

I don't mind streaming but I do notice many here are not mentioning EST ( electronic sell thru) which is growing by the day and will have full studio support in the future. As long as I am able to own the movies that I enjoy I do not care what format they are being distributed on. The studios are going to continue selling their products to us which is what matters to me. It may be a digital file that you can load to a hard disc or something like Ultraviolet or key chest. Streaming is great for rental though.

I think MOD is always going to remain a small niche service. Even though my main interest is in classic and foreign films from the 1940s-80s, I've only bought a couple of MOD titles, because there's no way I'm paying $20 or more for a film I've never seen before.

 

And living outside the US makes it impossible to take advantage of sales and discounts. I'd be much more willing to take a chance on some titles if the prices were in the $5-10 range. I'd rather they offered a download option for $5 - I could leave it running overnight and just burn my own disc.

I would not be surprised if we see something like this in the future when digital download standards are set.

Any download service will analyse your IP address and/or your card billing address and say "sorry, domestic customers only". This already happens on Amazon's download for example.

 

They'll claim it's because of rights issues and so on, but at the heart of it will be the studios with their obsessional need to control. It's what they've always wanted, right from the start, when DVD was a truly global standard format where any machine anywhere could play any disc anywhere - Region Coding was an ugly little sticking plaster added on at the insistance of studios (and, it must be said, largely Hollywood ones).

 

They live in mortal terror of people being able to obtain movies before their theatrical release in a particular country. Of course, that is now pretty much a model lost in antiquity when movies were flown around in tin cans. UK theatres could be six months behind US ones, for example. These days we don't - often global releases are simultaneous now.

 

But they still cling to their controlling ways. Laughably, BluRay also has region coding, and the majority of studios don;t bother with it.

Unless I misread the piece the Bits writer strangely laments the DVD future of HOW I WON THE WAR, which is being released on DVD on March 20.

It is being released as part of the MGM's MOD program.  He is lamenting that it is MOD when it is cult enough to earn a pressed DVD release.  I have the same feelings for this film, ROLLING THUNDER and COLD TURKEY.  But I am happy to have them as an MOD if that is the only way I can get them. 
 

 

Hmmm, interesting. I have the PR in front of me: "John Lennon stars in his only non-Beatles theatrical performance in HOW I WON THE WAR available March 20th through MGM’s Limited Edition Collection.  This DVD release debuts on the anniversary of John and Yoko Ono’s highly publicized “Bed-In” protesting the Vietnam War, and John and Yoko’s actual wedding. Under the supervision of director Richard Lester the DVD has been fully remastered.  

  

“We are excited to bring How I Won the War to DVD for the fans of John Lennon.  We were fortunate enough to have Yoko Ono write an introductory letter for the book giving insight to John’s experience on the film,” said Matt Lasorsa, SVP MGM DVD Marketing.  “The special introductory letter, combined with photos of John from the film, makes this commemorative Booklet a must have for John Lennon fans.”
 

Seems pretty extravagant for a MOD, particularly an MGM one. Steeply priced, too, at Movies Unlimited: $34. 

 

"MGM Limited Edition Collection" is the name of their MOD program (see here). On the pre-order page, it states: This product is manufactured on demand using DVD-R recordable media. Amazon.com's standard return policy will apply.

I know the name of the program but was surprised to find this much more ambitious product in there. And Amazon wants $36 for it; no wonder the word or phrase "MOD" isn't used in the PR...

Well, there you go, the next logical progression in the new frontier of MOD - the "premium" DVD-R, with premium content at a premium price. It was only a matter of time until the studios with MOD programs did begin to include extras with these releases - for a steeper price.

 

As for the MOD program supporters and detractors, I frankly agree with both sides. I think it is a good method to get releases that otherwise may not be commercially viable into the hands of fans, and I think complaints that these (usually) more obscure releases aren't (generally) given extensive remasterings or extra content DO amount to whining. I personally don't need or expect every single obscure cult film that I have ever seen and liked to get the deluxe treatment just because I'm one of a handful of fans of said film. It often seems churlish and downright silly to me that some folks gripe about the lack of "respect" some barely-known and often fringe market release they have been clamoring for receives simply because it isn't a three-disk mega-bit remaster with ten hours of extras. My feeling is that as long as it's released in OAR and not screwed with via some studio blundering, stop your complaining and just be glad that it is available.

 

On the other hand, I do believe the complaints regarding the lower quality media (ie, DVD-R) and to a lesser extent the pricing are legitimate sticking points. I have purchased a few dozen WA titles, and a few others from the other MOD programs, simply because they were must-have titles for me. I would certainly be more inclined to take a flyer on many more titles if either I felt more confident about the permanence of the disks themselves, or the pricing structure was more reasonable. My greatest concern is that the disks are going to degrade over a relatively short period, something that might not bother me so much at say $5 a pop, but comes dangerously close to "rip-off" territory at $20 or even $10 a go.

I wonder if HOW I WON THE WAR is one of those starts-as-pressed-DVD-turns-to-MOD titles when the initial run is depleted, but if that's the case the price should drop when they're bought and sold. 

The NY Times today has a thumbs-up article on the Sony-Columbia and Warner Archives catalogs:

 

Classic Cowboys, Back on the Range - by Dave Kehr

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/movies/homevideo/classic-westerns-on-dvd-manufactured-on-demand.html?_r=1&ref=movies

 

I've also noticed that the Warner MODs are becoming more expensive, in that they've really clamped down on the discounts.

I'll quote from the WAC thread then:

"I really wish we could make this forum about the films, film history, and film trivia, and move all the complaints to another forum. Sorry, I just get tired of the complaints, negative attitudes, and dissatisfaction generated by products that the WAC spends so much time and effort to restore and preserve. Yes, in a perfect economic scenario, WB would release all of these films as pressed DVD. However, as mentioned in previous posts, many of these titles would not sell enough copies to provide sufficient profits to... oh, enable WB to continue their preservation and release operations. While the WAC is a wonderful service for film films, we need to remember that it's also a business. WB does not have to release or restore these films- such projects do not sustain the company- so I really hope that, in spite of prices, formats or slight imperfections, we'll feel grateful for the availability of these rare films, buy if we feel the desire, and take the "other" comments to another arena. "

Sorry, WAC "spends so much time and effort"? Come again? The evidence is that Warner Archive invests the minimum time and effort on it's Archive releases. As evidence the total lack of extras and the obviously minimal effort in restoration.

You're last line gives away the game: film fans get so misty-eyed in their gratitude at getting these films that they don't perceive the reality: it's a minimal investment, maximal charging vehicle.

And the model of bunging bare-bones releases with minimal restoration onto MOD's and then charging $20+ a pop has proven so successful that not only are more studios catching on to the idea, but the programs themselves are becoming the exclusive way of releasing everything except the latest blockbusters. Even to the point of putting previously out-of-print titles onto MOD's - it wouldn't surprise me to see titles pulled OOP early specifically to make them exclusive to MOD.

The execs have simply analysed the situation and see absolutely no reason to release stuff any other way - not when they have a consumer base ready and willing to pay $20 per movie rather than the $5-10 they were paying for a superior product a couple of years ago.

I might be grateful for releases, but I'm also realistic enough to acknowledge I'm being taken advantage of.

The MOD programs tap directly into the "must-have-at-any-price" consumer base.

I agree with Nick's comments. I'm not going to spend $20 on movies I've never seen before. It would be great if netflix carried MOD's so I could rent them first. The only MOD's I plan on buying would be the Andy Hardy series and I hope and pray they are released as pressed discs.

Actually, a number of Archive titles are starting to show up as iTunes rentals, some of them in HD.