Shootout: See the Epson MovieMate 85HD, Epson HC 8350 and Epson HC 8700 UB in action

Did you guys do a basic calibration on the projectors first? As we all know, projectors are different in how they look "out of the box".

Helen, I'm not trying to be rude, but that isn't doing the buyers any favors. Some projectors look very good out of the box and some need much more tweaking.

Great video.  The 85HD looks like a lot of fun, but at this price not having Blu-Ray capabilities is a bit of a deal killer for me.  I could definitely see the difference between the 8350 and 8700.  However, I think this definitely shows the law of diminishing returns kicks in somewhere very close to the 8350.  With 3D projectors just around the corner, saving 1K now might be a very good bet.

I disagree. Comparing projectors using their default settings IS NOT comparing apples to apples. Comparing projectors after is. All you guys need to do is a basic run thru with a cal. disc to set contrast, brightness, color, tint and sharpness. When I do it, it takes less than 30 minutes. Then you're comparing apples to apples. That's why ALL projector reviewers calibrate the projectors beforehand.  

No. I'm just a huge projector fan. I'm on my 3rd projector now, the Mits. HC3800. The HC3800 and my last one, the HD1000 I bought from you guys.

wow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregg Loewen 

wow

Is that a cheap shot Gregg?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Mcc 

I disagree. Comparing projectors using their default settings IS NOT comparing apples to apples. Comparing projectors after is. All you guys need to do is a basic run thru with a cal. disc to set contrast, brightness, color, tint and sharpness. When I do it, it takes less than 30 minutes. Then you're comparing apples to apples. That's why ALL projector reviewers calibrate the projectors beforehand.  

I can see both sides.  One one hand a lot of enthusiasts/HTF members will use a calibration disc, and a small percentage will spring for a professional calibration.  On the other hand as prices drop I bet a lot of people get it, plug it in and turn it on, never calibrating it.  For that latter group a shootout like this is helpful,

Thanks for sharing this Helen Anne.  Adding the time code was very helpful too!  The MovieMate sounds like a great buy for someone without a dedicated room wanting a basic projector to pull out for occasional gaming or movie watching.  The 8700 looks like it has great price/performance for a dedicated room.

hmmm...thanks for this...  I currently don't have speakers hooked up to this computer so maybe it's said on the video:  Are all three screens the same size and same screen surface?

What is size/make/model/screen surface material?

I am very close to purchasing the 8350, but my only worry is that my room is too bright for it. During the day, my room has 3 very large windows, and while I can draw the shutters to cut down a considerable bit, I would prefer not to. However, I don't think that ANY projector is bright enough for just how bright my sitting room gets during the day. My room is a lot brighter than the room in the video above, and that's why I am hesitant to purchase.

Why do you prefer not to "draw the shutters" during the day? Is it that much trouble? If it's too much trouble, you need to buy a TV, or watch projector only at night.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by maherelharake 

I am very close to purchasing the 8350, but my only worry is that my room is too bright for it. During the day, my room has 3 very large windows, and while I can draw the shutters to cut down a considerable bit, I would prefer not to. However, I don't think that ANY projector is bright enough for just how bright my sitting room gets during the day. My room is a lot brighter than the room in the video above, and that's why I am hesitant to purchase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProjectorPPL1 

Hi Jim Mcc. You're not being rude at all. In fact, you bring up a good point.

The goal of our shootouts is to allow customers to see the projectors at their default settings. This way, customers can compare apples to apples. We don't want to tweak one projector and give it an unfair advantage.

On any projector, the calibration settings offer a range of options. Maybe it would be a good idea to do another video that shows each projector under various settings.

I doubt Jim was suggesting to calibrate only one of the units.  Please consider setting a new goal for the next shootout you publish in a home theater forum.  The only "apples" that have any chance of becoming common to movie fans is image fidelity.  In case you don't already know, both the movie and video industries work according to world wide standards for picture quality.  The most fundamental performance criterion that matters in the context of home theater projectors is- will they produce a correct image that follows motion imaging industry standards? 

It seems to me that in recent years the home theater industry has been increasingly losing ground in the category of basic education of consumers.  Consumers come to forums like this one for a better understanding of how to get the most from their hobby and budget.  It sounds too often like display vendors have begun losing sight of basic fundamentals.  The Imaging Science Foundation started a movement in the consumer video market to educate consumers about what constitutes correct picture quality.  I doubt readers of this forum want to know much about how distorted a picture an "out of the box" projector can produce.  Most regular forum readers already know that manufacturer contrast and brightness claims are purposely deceptive.  They also know that most settings options on video displays are destructive to good pictures. 

How about offering the next shootout with calibrated projectors, so readers/shoppers can know which ones come closest to offering fundamental image fidelity.  We are inundated in this industry and hobby by marketing hyperbole, deceptive claims, and performance options that deviate from correct picture quality.  Can we get back to what delivers accurate images as a base line, and then add all the other stuff after that is established?  In my experience, folks on this forum want to know how to get the most beautiful pictures from their video display budget.  In the video arena, there is a very specific, standardized definition for picture quality.  How close can your products come to delivering such quality?

Best regards and beautiful pictures,

G. Alan Brown, President

CinemaQuest, Inc.

A Lion AV Consultants Affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
 

Yeah !!!! 

To me, it's like going to Best Buy and picking out a TV that looks best on the shelf before adjusting anything. They're all set in "torch mode" to look good under the bright lights.

BUT, I do think Projector People is a great company. I bought my last 2 projectors there, and I'll probably be back in about 2 years for a new one.

hi guys

Finally off the road and getting tucked in for Christmas...well actually not...but any ways.

I think Alan is on the mark.

I do loudly applaud anybody for trying to do comparisons....there is not near enough of this being done.

I do strongly suggest that all comparisons be made using objective base line parameters (ie: SMPTE standards, inc rec 709).

Perhaps 2 sets of results with the first being out of the box, and then the 2nd being properly setup.

FWIW,

Gregg

(thank you PPPL1) !!!

I have to agree that while comparing the projectors out of the box is interesting, it is really valueless.  The only thing that I'm really interested in is if the projector can be properly calibrated to accurately represent the correct color and contrast balance. Only then will you be able to tell the "men from the boys" so to speak. A particular projector may look like crap out of the box, but once calibrated MAY be the best of the bunch.

A proper calibration disc and filters MUST be used or there is really no point to your tests.

I can't imagine anyone from THIS forum at least just using the projector out of the box.

Doug

I'm building a complete theater room from scratch. The actual room is not even built yet so I have absolutely barriers to overcome. I know I'm buying the Black diamond screen technology so I will not have any issues with lighting. I have a great supplier that can get me a 133" black diamond fixed screen for $3,700. I have a total budget of $50K for my entire room. I have been doing a lot of research on speakers and projectors and room size and etc. and I have not heard anyone tell me the Epson brand is a high end projector. I've been lead to the JVC brands for projectors. After reading your current posts on Epson, my question is-what is considered the best projector to purchase without consideration for price. It appears to me that a lot of people tell you what's best based on price and price is not an issue for me. I don't want to replace projectors over and over. I don't mind replacing the bulbs, but I want a projector I can keep for years to come.

I found a great supplier for all my equipment so my concern is to make sure I'm purchasing the best high end items. In short, I want the exact movie experience right in my home theater room. I thank you all for such knowledgeable posts.

Kev

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggesnuck 

I'm building a complete theater room from scratch. The actual room is not even built yet so I have absolutely barriers to overcome. I know I'm buying the Black diamond screen technology so I will not have any issues with lighting. I have a great supplier that can get me a 133" black diamond fixed screen for $3,700. I have a total budget of $50K for my entire room. I have been doing a lot of research on speakers and projectors and room size and etc. and I have not heard anyone tell me the Epson brand is a high end projector. I've been lead to the JVC brands for projectors. After reading your current posts on Epson, my question is-what is considered the best projector to purchase without consideration for price. It appears to me that a lot of people tell you what's best based on price and price is not an issue for me. I don't want to replace projectors over and over. I don't mind replacing the bulbs, but I want a projector I can keep for years to come.

 

I found a great supplier for all my equipment so my concern is to make sure I'm purchasing the best high end items. In short, I want the exact movie experience right in my home theater room. I thank you all for such knowledgeable posts.

 

Kev

You should start your own thread.  This is veering pretty far off-topic and brings up a lot of issues worthy of a separate discussion.  It appears that you have been given faulty guidance, perhaps from your "great supplier."  I would never recommend the Black Diamond screen for a dedicated theater room, if image quality is your top priority, and I'm an SI dealer.  Rather than go down this and many other roads pertaining to your project, how about starting a discussion thread dedicated to your plans?  Hijacking someone else's thread isn't very good form.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,

G. Alan Brown, President

CinemaQuest, Inc.

A Lion AV Consultants Affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
 

Hey guys thanks for the helpful responses to my posts above. I got a bit caught up in Finals weeks (I'm a junior Physics major) so I didn't have much time to respond. I will try to upload a picture of my room whenever I get back from break. I suppose I could draw my blinds, but it would still not be completely dark. I suppose though the 2000 lumens should be sufficient. I have 2 reasons that I am going to pass on a TV: 1) I don't watch much TV during the day, so a projector should be fine once the sun goes down. 2) Even if I do want to, I still have another TV in the other room. Do you guys still think I should call the Projector Experts to discuss this? Thanks again for all the help!

I'm not sure how I hijacked anything because I was merely asking about the talk on Epson projectors. I do have my own thread concerning what type of theater room is best. I've only had two people respond which is so disappointing because I read so many people talking about so many components of building a theater room, yet only one person has taken the time to help me. As for my expert, he was a guy who responded to my thread and he actually sell a ton of high theater products. I called him an expert because he has pushed no certain brand of anything and he gives me complete understandings of everything he suggests and why he suggested it.

I'm a bit taken back by your response on the black diamond screen because it is a new technology that solves the issue of lighting and wash out on regular screens. Why do you say this type of screen is not worth purchasing? I've seen two theater rooms and both complain about washout when the lights are on. We always watch TV with some lights on so that is why I wanted to go with the Black diamond screen. I watched a black diamond demo and it was amazing and the light didn't change the screen at all. You said you are a SI expert, yet you claim this technology is no good. I would really appreciate your explanation because I don't want to waste my money on something that really doesn't do what it says it does.

Also, what projector would you say is the best one. Up to now, I've been told the JVC line is the best. I want to put together the best system I can find and I'm nowhere near an expert so your assistance would be highly appreciated. You can email me also if you like at hoody2@comcast.net

Sincerely,

Kev

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggesnuck 

I'm not sure how I hijacked anything because I was merely asking about the talk on Epson projectors. I do have my own thread concerning what type of theater room is best. I've only had two people respond which is so disappointing because I read so many people talking about so many components of building a theater room, yet only one person has taken the time to help me. As for my expert, he was a guy who responded to my thread and he actually sell a ton of high theater products. I called him an expert because he has pushed no certain brand of anything and he gives me complete understandings of everything he suggests and why he suggested it.

 

I'm a bit taken back by your response on the black diamond screen because it is a new technology that solves the issue of lighting and wash out on regular screens. Why do you say this type of screen is not worth purchasing? I've seen two theater rooms and both complain about washout when the lights are on. We always watch TV with some lights on so that is why I wanted to go with the Black diamond screen. I watched a black diamond demo and it was amazing and the light didn't change the screen at all. You said you are a SI expert, yet you claim this technology is no good. I would really appreciate your explanation because I don't want to waste my money on something that really doesn't do what it says it does.

 

Also, what projector would you say is the best one. Up to now, I've been told the JVC line is the best. I want to put together the best system I can find and I'm nowhere near an expert so your assistance would be highly appreciated. You can email me also if you like at hoody2@comcast.net

 

Sincerely,

 

Kev

This thread is discussing the Projector People's shootout video of three specific Epson models.  If you want to discuss your plans for a dedicated home theater, and its display requirements, please start your own thread in this section of the forum.  I'll contribute to the thread if you can stay focused.  You have put words in my mouth that I did not say, and exaggerated my points beyond their clearly stated meaning.