The CETON Digital Cable Quad Tuner PC Card and why you should seriously consider it - Page 3

Here it is:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/05/tivo-premiere-vs-windows-7-media-center/

Dave, here's my real advice:

I've run Media Center in various formats for 5+ years.   WMC 7 is about as close to "perfect" as it gets.   But I will tell you this before you get going:   Don't just "sling something together".   Good Media Centers are often ones that are used dedicated for that purpose and are built with Media Center function in mind.   You don't have to spend a lot to get that, but you have to have realistic expectations of what you want and what you expect.   People who "slowly cobble together" a media center, or who just pick out pieces/parts based on "new/hot" or "old preferences" often find the entire experience clunky, annoying, and hard to handle.

My wife frankly loves MC.   WIth Ceton (and yes, XBOXs) we have a common pool of recordings that travel through our house, live TV in every room we want it, outbound streams to her iPad (remotepotatoe and some.. other stuff) and the like.  If done right, it's one of the best experiences with live TV on the market (period).   Done wrong, you're going to be frustrated, annoyed and deal with issues.  

That's the difference. 

Good idea, and that's generally my plan. I don't want to spend $800 on new a Windows computer, invest several weekends, and  discover my wife hates it because it's missing some basic functionality I should have known about ahead of time.

As you've got 4+ tuners and an extender, can you comment (perhaps not for the first time :) on how it handles live (Tivo-ish) DVR functionality? With a Ceton, can 7MC do two or more live TV streams with DVR controls (assuming they're not being used for scheduled recordings)?

If so, this is probably a winner. If not...I'm not sure. Maybe I'd build two separate computers that can stream back and forth? 

OK.   Let's say I'm recording multiple shows at once.  In fact, I'll give a straight on example:

I've got Bones, Grey's Anatomy and 30 Rock recording at the same time.

In my main room, I have the HTPC.   In our bedroom my wife has an XBOX, my kids have an XBOX as Extenders.    In the main room, live, I'm watching   Bones.   Fine.   I get up, and go make a sandwich (could happen) pausing it.   My wife is in the bedroom watching 30 Rock.. live.  She pauses too, to come out and tell me about (whatever).   In the kid's room they are watching Team Umizoomi (live) which I'm not recording, but I have four more tuners free for that.. or they are watching DVR content, etc.

All of that works - so every room on an extender works with watching DVR in progress content or live streams.  Full pause/fastforward/rewind available to them.

I want to make sure I understand, because this is a fundamental feature for WAF: In your example. those multiple streams are not pre-scheduled programs. All live, spontaneously selected viewing. 

Thanks.

OK.  Now I'm not so sure what you're thinking of.   Ok, but let me give an example:

I right now am watching live "The Rose Bowl"

My wife is in the other room watching something else (I think probably some crap like "Say Yes to the Dress") anyway, both live, neither being recorded.   I can press pause, she can press pause, etc.   All stays working.

Your maximum pause time is 45 minutes.

Live TV, without any "season passes" running. That is, like what a Tivo normally does.

Tivo has two tuners always running, with a 30 min buffer. Turn on the TV and you can pause, rewind. It's not user-scheduled TV; just random stuff (like early evening news or Jeopardy, for us). And you can switch between both tuners without losing the other's buffer. With a second Tivo (in a second) room, you can also do the same thing there.

So my question is whether WMC can do the same: multiple live TV streams, without any user-scheduled programming running. Just turn on random live TV, e.g. NBC on the main tuner and FOX on the extender, and have the 45 min buffer of pause, rewind? The engadget review said WMC can only do 1 tuner of live TV; all other tuners had to be scheduled programming or pre-recorded content:

and

Your comments suggest otherwise, but I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

I'm just not sure I quite get this.

Ok, if you turn on the TV function of media center, there is no "rewind" outside of where you start; because it assumes no tuners are in use (unless they are recording, etc.)

So, if that's the question, that's true.  I guess I've never thought of this as a disadvantage because I have no idea what channel it would just "leave spooling" all the time ...

As far as live tuners;  you have as many recording as you want (well, up to twelve) and as many as 5 live tuners (1 in the main, and then 4 extenders)

But I don't quite grasp what the goal is of what you propose (?)  I just don't see the benefit.. I mean, I see where you could rewind some random show that it was on, but I don't know whether I'd perceive that as good or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattCR 

I'm just not sure I quite get this.

 

Ok, if you turn on the TV function of media center, there is no "rewind" outside of where you start; because it assumes no tuners are in use (unless they are recording, etc.)

 

So, if that's the question, that's true.  I guess I've never thought of this as a disadvantage because I have no idea what channel it would just "leave spooling" all the time ...

 

As far as live tuners;  you have as many recording as you want (well, up to twelve) and as many as 5 live tuners (1 in the main, and then 4 extenders)

 

But I don't quite grasp what the goal is of what you propose (?)  I just don't see the benefit.. I mean, I see where you could rewind some random show that it was on, but I don't know whether I'd perceive that as good or not.

Ok, I think I'm with you.

Here's what I took from Engadget: My wife is watching random live TV in the living room (e.g. 7pm Jeopardy at CBS). If I went to the bedroom (extender system) TV, I could only watch previously-recorded content, or I could stream live whatever show she is watching. I could not watch random live TV on a different tuner / different channel (e.g 7pm Simpsons on FOX). I would also not be able to swap between e.g 7pm Simpsons on FOX and 7pm news on NBC, while preserving the buffers on both.

Why is this useful? Mostly because we're used to it, and if I remove basic features that we're used to, we'll be frustrated and this project will be a harder sell especially to my wife. 

But also because...Tivo is pretty much always recording and generally has a live 30 minute buffer. The benefit on one Tivo is:

* If you happen upon a show by happy accident, you can record it back to the start of the half-hour (as I did with PBS's Steve Jobs Bio)

* You can flip between the two tuners, live, and bop around between them, with pause and rewind active on both. I do that sometimes. It's handy when I find something of modest interest but I'm searching for something better. I can hunt on one tuner without losing the buffer of the other channel. 

And with two separate Tivos:

* my wife can be watching something live in the living room while I'm watching something live in the bedroom.

The Engadget articles suggest a system that's difficult to use with live TV, at least beyond a single tuner on a single TV, constantly having to turn on and off "recording" as you change channels. And while a DVR gets us away from live TV, we still watch some, particularly when making dinner or getting ready for bed or for background viewing.

I can live without Suggestions. Even without two -live tuners on a single set. But multi-room, multi-channel live viewing is necessary for us, at least to make the transition from Tivo. Fortunately, you're saying that's possible. :)

I intend a dedicated, custom-built master unit.

The extender, I hope to be my Xbox 360 to save money and difficulty. But as I consider leaving that on 24/7, perhaps that's not a great idea. Mine is from 2008, after the major overheating problems were fixed, but it's not the "slim" which is supposed to be much lower heat and power consumption.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt 

You couldn't do this because of the nature of Windows Media Center. When WMC isn't loaded, it's not on any channel. It only starts using a tuner when a) someone is watching live TV using the HTPC or one of the extenders; or b) when the scheduler fires up one to record a scheduled program. The way around this is to leave Windows Media Center in live TV, and just switch turn the TV itself off. The downside of this is that it's draining power at full speed, much as your Tivo is when it's "off".

That's OK. This will be a dedicated, living room machine. It's meant to be a TivoHD upgrade and replacement in our house. Using similar power 24x7 as a Tivo is acceptable.