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2011 marks the year of the Censored 11 Looney Tunes cartoons as they finally come to the Warner Archive!:
http://www.toonzone.net/news/articles/35331/nycc2010-warner-archive-to-release-the-censored-eleven
I like to thank Golden Age Cartoon forums member SNES Chalmers for breaking the news!
As this is an "Archive" release, though, people needn't expect them to be up to the picture-quality standards of the Golden Collection. I'd be surprised if there's any remastering done to them.
I'll believe it when I see it. Have you ever seen "Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs"? To a modern audience, the racism is ugly and shocking. Certainly, the film has historical value, but I can't imagine why Warner Bros. would want to expose themselves to the enormous outcry and condemnation that will result. Sure, some animation buffs demand this, but it would not be a big seller.
I'm not saying I'd be protesting, because I certainly would not. I'm just saying, I'd be surprised.
As this is an "Archive" release, though, people needn't expect them to be up to the picture-quality standards of the Golden Collection. I'd be surprised if there's any remastering done to them.
Ah, but the shorts were recently remastered for a showing in Hollywood, so there's no reason to think they wouldn't use those elements for a DVD release.
you can already see these cartoons online so it's not like Warners isn't already open for outcry.
By offering them as an Archive set, they're not going to have to worry about some kid at Best Buy putting them in the children's section and a parent throwing them into the mini-van's DVD player. This is aimed at the collectors and animation fans wanting to see what was yanked off TV for nearly 50 years.
These are about as racist as Phantom Menace.
I'll believe it when I see it. Have you ever seen "Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs"? To a modern audience, the racism is ugly and shocking. Certainly, the film has historical value, but I can't imagine why Warner Bros. would want to expose themselves to the enormous outcry and condemnation that will result. Sure, some animation buffs demand this, but it would not be a big seller.
I'm not saying I'd be protesting, because I certainly would not. I'm just saying, I'd be surprised.
you can already see these cartoons online so it's not like Warners isn't already open for outcry.
By offering them as an Archive set, they're not going to have to worry about some kid at Best Buy putting them in the children's section and a parent throwing them into the mini-van's DVD player. This is aimed at the collectors and animation fans wanting to see what was yanked off TV for nearly 50 years.
These are about as racist as Phantom Menace.
The fact of their being online (which, naïvely, I hadn't realized) doesn't really change anything. There's a distinction between what long-dead executives okayed seventy years ago and what current Warner Bros. execs hope to make a profit off today. Everybody knows that WB did not upload those cartoons to YouTube and the like, and make no profit from it. A DVD release is a different animal.
And yes, I agree with you that smart people understand this distinction, and can watch these films and understand the very real sociological and historical significance of them in an intelligent way. But there will always be those who can't see the distinction between showing something and endorsing that thing, or simply choose to ignore that in order to exploit the situation. And those people will be loud. And whatever small profit is to be gained by WB putting out DVDs that appeal to a tiny group of aficionados (who, as you point out, can already see these cartoons online) will be outweighed by a PR headache WB would just as soon avoid.
Having said that, I've been wrong before, and may be again. But this is my hunch.
Can't agree with your "Phantom Menace" comparison, by the way. "Coal Black" features outrageous stereotypes of black people with enormous pink lips and gold teeth with dice on them, and a truck with a sign offering to kill "Japs" at no cost. Yes, it was a different time, and film does not seem mean-spirited -- for something so shocking today, there seems to be little malice in the humor (well, the "Japs" joke notwithstanding). Even so, where Jar-Jar may have clumsily stumbled into uncomfortable racial stereotyping (but let's keep in mind, he's not human), "Coal Black" dives in headfirst with overt and overtly insulting stereotyping. There is a difference.
Certainly, the film has historical value, but I can't imagine why Warner Bros. would want to expose themselves to the enormous outcry and condemnation that will result. Sure, some animation buffs demand this, but it would not be a big seller.
Warner claims the Censored 11 are their most in-demand titles, according to the linked article. I would expect them to move. The extended controversy surrounding the films for so many years no doubt contribute to their desirability. Placing them in the Archives is precisely how you avoid any mainstream outcry.
I will unfortunately pass on this release, as I do not support DVD-R, but hopefully the films have been properly remastered. Perhaps their popularity might warrant a pressed release in the future?
And whatever small profit is to be gained by WB putting out DVDs that appeal to a tiny group of aficionados (who, as you point out, can already see these cartoons online) will be outweighed by a PR headache WB would just as soon avoid.
I think that since it's going to be MOD, very few people outside of folks who go to message boards like this are even going to know that they're available. Plus, WB will have disclaimers all over the disc and package talking about context and history to cover their ass. I think the fact that these cartoons have been out of circulation so long (despite their availability online) will make them a big seller to collectors, people curious to see how 'bad' they are and to people who are just racist creeps.
Can't agree with your "Phantom Menace" comparison, by the way. "Coal Black" features outrageous stereotypes of black people with enormous pink lips and gold teeth with dice on them, and a truck with a sign offering to kill "Japs" at no cost. Yes, it was a different time, and film does not seem mean-spirited -- for something so shocking today, there seems to be little malice in the humor (well, the "Japs" joke notwithstanding). Even so, where Jar-Jar may have clumsily stumbled into uncomfortable racial stereotyping (but let's keep in mind, he's not human), "Coal Black" dives in headfirst with overt and overtly insulting stereotyping. There is a difference.
Jar-Jar Binks and his kind are nothing more than major black stereotypes. not to mention the big nose jew stereotype for that creature that owns Darth Vader baby. not to mention the extreme Asian stereotypes of those guys at the start of the film.
Fox put out the Charlie Chan and Mr. Moto movies without groups of people marching into SoCal with torches and pitchfork. Warners didn't have to apologize for putting out Tarzan. And Warners did release the black gags used in Tom and Jerry. did you write a nasty note to Warners wanting the blackface scenes removed from the Jazz Singer box?
The people that hate Warner Brothers for making these films - are going to hate them even if they never release them. Coal Black is over the top, but it's also the finest work from Bob Clampett's crew. It is ranked among the top 50 shorts of all time. This release is aimed at adults - not to be a little kid babysitter.
Far as quality goes Coal Black and 7 others of the Censored 11 were restored and shown a few years ago at the TCM Film Festival. They won't be a bunch of scratched up 16mm prints transferred.
Jar-Jar Binks and his kind are nothing more than major black stereotypes. not to mention the big nose jew stereotype for that creature that owns Darth Vader baby. not to mention the extreme Asian stereotypes of those guys at the start of the film.
That's your interpretation of those characters but you have absolutely no way to say that that's what George Lucas intended. In the case of these cartoons, there's no interpretation- the people behind it were obviously using stereotypes to mock blacks and Asians.
By the way, George Lucas gave $1 million to build a Martin Luther King, Jr. memorial so if he's a bigot, he's not very good at it.
And Warners did release the black gags used in Tom and Jerry.
The people that hate Warner Brothers for making these films - are going to hate them even if they never release them. Coal Black is over the top, but it's also the finest work from Bob Clampett's crew. It is ranked among the top 50 shorts of all time. This release is aimed at adults - not to be a little kid babysitter.
Far as quality goes Coal Black and 7 others of the Censored 11 were restored and shown a few years ago at the TCM Film Festival. They won't be a bunch of scratched up 16mm prints transferred.
Where, where were all the original Hanna Barbara Tom & Jerry's released in that format, Volume Three had 3 such omisions, even after warnings as soon as the dvd starts up. And to make a statement, not everyone who wants to see this is a Racist Creep, some are just truly animation fans, while the subject matter would not fly in todays modern standards, i have no problem with the Japan bashing in these, because they are approiate for the time in which they were made, wrong but right for the time and what they were trying to convey, no different than the SNAFU shorts; funny no one ever gets upset about making fun of Germans in the cartoons of that era, why is that? Its part of our history, WWII is part of our history, just like Japan bombing Pearl Harbor, so that war as all of them are was fought with propaganda, we as a country have done that for over two hundred years, and will continue do so. For those of you who have never served, i could not explain it, for those of you that have i dont need to.
But i would like an offical release not a mod
And to make a statement, not everyone who wants to see this is a Racist Creep, some are just truly animation fans...
And that's what I said. Or rather I classified animation fans as "collectors" but I'm not in any way, shape or form saying that everyone who wants to buy these is racist.
have you ever seen any of the george pal puppet toons, while not right in presentation, they are a sight to behold, pre-dating the ranking bass productions, there is a time that the art of the situation needs to be viewed seperatly from some of the subject matter, and see the craft of the art, the timing of the gags.
have you ever seen any of the george pal puppet toons, while not right in presentation, they are a sight to behold, pre-dating the ranking bass productions, there is a time that the art of the situation needs to be viewed seperatly from some of the subject matter, and see the craft of the art, the timing of the gags.
I've never seen the George Pal puppet cartoons but I think it's fair to say that I agree with the bulk of your statement. I thought it was clear from my previous posts but I'm definitely not saying that these cartoons shouldn't be released. I've seen all of the censored 11 over the years and they're offensive to me but just because I feel that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be released or that society should try to bury its past.
That's your interpretation of those characters but you have absolutely no way to say that that's what George Lucas intended. In the case of these cartoons, there's no interpretation- the people behind it were obviously using stereotypes to mock blacks and Asians.
By the way, George Lucas gave $1 million to build a Martin Luther King, Jr. memorial so if he's a bigot, he's not very good at it.
and there's no interpretation needed to see Jar-Jar Binks and his ilk are black stereotypes. So he gave million bucks to build an MLK memorial - that doesn't remove the stain of Jar-Jar Binks as the bumbling black character who eventually puts the Emperor in power through his stupidity.
Jar-Jar Binks "a bumbling black character?" He did not look like a black person to me. He looked like a being the like I've never seen before. I do not see how somebody could construe that Jar-Jar is supposed to be black. That is ridiculous.
Jar-Jar Binks "a bumbling black character?" He did not look like a black person to me. He looked like a being the like I've never seen before. I do not see how somebody could construe that Jar-Jar is supposed to be black. That is ridiculous.
cause Jar-Jar resembles Ahmed Best, the actor who played him. He's black.
Lucas based his Star Wars films after the low budget serials that he saw on TV - those films were notorious for their stereotypes of blacks and asians with bad dialogue.
This silly discussion belongs in one of the many Star Wars threads in the Movie section.
This silly discussion belongs in one of the many Star Wars threads in the Movie section.
I agree. I am here to read about the Censored 11. There's enough Star Wars debates on the net to last a lifetime.
The Censored 11 belong in the movie section since they weren't made for TV and haven't aired on TV in over four decades.
I agree. I am here to read about the Censored 11. There's enough Star Wars debates on the net to last a lifetime.
some of the interesting reading available on some of the same toons from that era, not as offensive, some of the animators were even uncomfortable with the subject matter then, the reason i brought up the George Pal PuppetToons is that there is one with Bugs Bunny, Jasper Goes Hunting, Jasper was badly stereotyped here is the odd thing, Pal was a Paramount and this was released Theatrically Via Paramount, but does WB have any interest in this?
The Censored 11 belong in the movie section since they weren't made for TV and haven't aired on TV in over four decades.
I agree with that, too. In fact it's always annoyed me that Looney Tunes in general have become categorized as TV fare.
cause Jar-Jar resembles Ahmed Best, the actor who played him. He's black.
Lucas based his Star Wars films after the low budget serials that he saw on TV - those films were notorious for their stereotypes of blacks and asians with bad dialogue.
The reason the world hates Jar-Jar has nothing to do with any idea that he resembles any black stereotypes. It's because he's an annoying pest. He's the Scrappy Doo of the Star Wars racket.
As for the German bashing, I don't mind it because I would have been one of the first people attacked by the Nazis due to my ancestral national (Lithuanian and Polish on my father's side, and English/Scotch/Irish on my mother's) and religious origin (Jewish) and sexual orientation. I like watching them get what they deserve in the movies. And the Japanese committed some truly vile atrocities against the Chinese (the rape of Nanking) and the Filipinos (the Manila massacre), and lingering resentment towards Japan exists today in China and the Philippines because of it. Pearl Harbor was the tip of the iceberg.
Because much of the racism in this country has been directed at nonwhites by whites, people will have a problem dealing with anti-Japanese propaganda. And the internment of Americans of Japanese descent was embarrassing. But Pearl Harbor made Americans really angry at the Japanese.
But outside of the WWII material, not everyone at the time believed that racial jokes were hurtful. Some racial stereotypes had malicious intent behind them, others thought it was all in fun. But it was a different day and age, and this material needs to be kept available to show the reality of what was and was not acceptable then. I'm more offended by some of the things I've seen on BET than Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs.
Accusations of racism are so common that even shows like The Cosby Show that went out of their way to avoid racial stereotypes have been accused of racism. Don't believe me? There's actually a book by an author named Sut Jhaly called "Enlightened Racism: The Cosby Show, Audiences, and the Myth of the American Dream", which implies that Cosby's success was evidence of white racism. There were accusations of racism against The Blind Side because it dealt with a white family who helped a black teenage boy in need because they felt it was their Christian duty to help the needy. Those critics claimed that it implied that blacks could not succeed without the help of whites; it reminded me of similar criticisms aimed at Diff'rent Strokes and Webster 30 years ago. I didn't buy it then, and I don't buy it now. Racism is defined by intent.
Looney Tunes were never aimed at kids, even though kids love them, and they should not be sanitized. Censoring the censored 11 and other racial/ethnic jokes is no different than censoring the violent slapstick. I think censorship should be banned. Ironically, that would protect speech that called for censorship, but I guess that's the price you pay for living in a free country. And just because the studio has the legal right to do what they please with this material, rights are not the same as right and wrong. I am glad Warner Bros. is giving these cartoons a chance, but I, too, wish it was an in-store release. I'll buy it if the transfers are decent. I wish Disney would give Song of the South that opportunity as well, but they have no MOD program.
As for the German bashing, I don't mind it because I would have been one of the first people attacked by the Nazis due to my ancestral national (Lithuanian and Polish on my father's side, and English/Scotch/Irish on my mother's) and religious origin (Jewish) and sexual orientation. I like watching them get what they deserve in the movies. And the Japanese committed some truly vile atrocities against the Chinese (the rape of Nanking) and the Filipinos (the Manila massacre), and lingering resentment towards Japan exists today in China and the Philippines because of it. Pearl Harbor was the tip of the iceberg.
Because much of the racism in this country has been directed at nonwhites by whites, people will have a problem dealing with anti-Japanese propaganda. And the internment of Americans of Japanese descent was embarrassing. But Pearl Harbor made Americans really angry at the Japanese.
But outside of the WWII material, not everyone at the time believed that racial jokes were hurtful. Some racial stereotypes had malicious intent behind them, others thought it was all in fun. But it was a different day and age, and this material needs to be kept available to show the reality of what was and was not acceptable then. I'm more offended by some of the things I've seen on BET than Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs.
Accusations of racism are so common that even shows like The Cosby Show that went out of their way to avoid racial stereotypes have been accused of racism. Don't believe me? There's actually a book by an author named Sut Jhaly called "Enlightened Racism: The Cosby Show, Audiences, and the Myth of the American Dream", which implies that Cosby's success was evidence of white racism. There were accusations of racism against The Blind Side because it dealt with a white family who helped a black teenage boy in need because they felt it was their Christian duty to help the needy. Those critics claimed that it implied that blacks could not succeed without the help of whites; it reminded me of similar criticisms aimed at Diff'rent Strokes and Webster 30 years ago. I didn't buy it then, and I don't buy it now. Racism is defined by intent.
Looney Tunes were never aimed at kids, even though kids love them, and they should not be sanitized. Censoring the censored 11 and other racial/ethnic jokes is no different than censoring the violent slapstick. I think censorship should be banned. Ironically, that would protect speech that called for censorship, but I guess that's the price you pay for living in a free country. And just because the studio has the legal right to do what they please with this material, rights are not the same as right and wrong. I am glad Warner Bros. is giving these cartoons a chance, but I, too, wish it was an in-store release. I'll buy it if the transfers are decent. I wish Disney would give Song of the South that opportunity as well, but they have no MOD program.
understood, my heritage is native American / English mix, talk about loosing a country, and there have been some items that are offensive, but in time have come to embrace some, also as a retired service member, i have always held part of my oath higher , and that is we are here to protect rights, as in the bill of rights, paid for in blood, i might not agree with the way some think, what they do, but it is there right in a free society, people should pay attention as to what they are allowing to be censored, or willing to give up, does censorship work, ask Nazi Germany, or the Soviet Union, worked for them, i don't want a one world socialist state,
i separate the art from the subject matter, be it an old Charlie Chan film, Manhattan Moorland kills in those, bad stereotype, but at same time getting screen time,
Song of the South, which i did see as a child in a theater, what i remember was fondly, as a simple story about a black country gentleman, telling his folktales, i know it would not be viewed this way, Tom and Jerry were edited, redrawn over, voices replaced, just wrong, when i think of a sound to T&J, it is Lillian Randolph's Voice, that is a hell of a statement.
i view this as a capsule good or bad for that time, like a mattahew brady photograph, don't act as if it never happened, and don't let it happen again.
Yeah, Ahmed Best played Jar-Jar, but Jar-Jar did not, I repeat, DID NOT look like Ahmed Best, nor any other black person for that matter.
Regarding the Censored 11, I checked some of them out on youtube and while they are offensive, I'd like to have them to satisfy the history buff in me. Plus, I love classic Warner Brothers animation and would like to have as many of their classic cartoons at my disposal as possible.
I picked up a DVD from Australia that had one or two of the censored 11, along with one of the Jasper Puppetoons (the 'haunted house' one), a few years back for about five bucks.
For those who are concerned that there will be mass outrage.....or any outrage at all, you need to look around a little more. Personally, I find more racial insensitvity in just about anything on BET, or try watching an episode of any "Judge" program that runs during the day. These shows are absolutely horrible as they primarily star extremely stupid people....and a large majority of them are black. As far as animation is concerned try watching some of the Vault cartoons on the Woody Woodpecker sets. There are several cartoons with racial content on par with "Coal Black" and I haven't read of any marches since those were released......and these were targeted at children and are available in Big Box stores everywhere.
These will sell in relatively large numbers and there won't be a peep......and I'm a notorious pessimist!! 
Disney already allowed cartoons with racial stereotypes and jokes out in the Treasures collection — with warnings. The same with the Looney Tunes Golden Collection. More people complained about the warnings than the content.
While I know that Corey, Mark and some others might say "hey, TVShowsOnDVD should NOT be reporting on this, as it's not TV fare", I nevertheless hope that the update I just added to the bottom of the Censored Eleven story I posted at the site I work at yesterday MAY possibly add something to this discussion:
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Bugs-Bunny-Looney-Tunes-Comedy-Hour-The-Censored-Eleven/14541
That is all.
David:
Though I am well-aware that classic animated shorts (Looney Tunes, Tom & Jerry, etc) are not "TV episodes", I for one do appreciate you reporting on them. I might not have know about some releases if you hadn't, as I check TVShowsOnDVD far more regularly than, say, a classic animation forum.
As they've all been repurposed for TV broadcast over the years (in various half-hour and hour-long programmes, for example), there is sort-of technically a justification for including them anyway.
Sometimes people take things just a bit too seriously.
