RIM introduces it's tablet.. the PlayBook

First off, considering the name and the touted capabilities, this is definitely a consumer level device.  How is 1080p video recording and playback and HDMI out aiming to the business-centric crowd?

Secondly, unless this is a laptop replacement, how can you justify this on the enterprise level?  A 7" tablet isn't a business device, it's a toy.  A nice toy, but a toy nonetheless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanson Yoo 

First off, considering the name and the touted capabilities, this is definitely a consumer level device.  How is 1080p video recording and playback and HDMI out aiming to the business-centric crowd?

 

Secondly, unless this is a laptop replacement, how can you justify this on the enterprise level?  A 7" tablet isn't a business device, it's a toy.  A nice toy, but a toy nonetheless.

 

No idea how well this will actually sell, but Hanson, I find your arguments somewhat contradictory.

First, you feel 7" is a nice compromise between productivity and portable fun -- and that's also apparent based on previous debates about these tablet devices.  But then, you argue that 7" "isn't a business device, it's a toy."  So which is it?  Is it not a big enough device to be both a toy and worthy of business use?  OR are you just showing your bias on this matter?

Personally, I just see this tablet being RIM's quick-to-market attempt to combat potentially losing marketshare to Android and iOS while also getting their foot in the door in case tablets do take off.  If it turns out well for them, they already have plans to produce 3G/4G versions to more fully serve the market.  But either way, if they can get it to market much faster by simply making it tether-ready (vs fully 3G/4G-ready) w/ existing BB devices, then that's a very good thing for them (and their existing BB customers as well to some extent).

And who says business users aren't also consumers anyway?  If anything, there's probably good likelihood that a very substantial portion of potential customers for such "toys" already use a BB device, eg. me (and my coworkers) for instance.  And IMHO, the PlayBook name actually sounds more like the name of a "toy" marketed to business folks than to your average consumer, who actually may not be the best target market for an expensive "toy" of this sort.  The average consumer -- rather than avg potential customer of such a luxury tech item -- is probably already spent on their home mortgage and car loans, various other more traditional toys and recreations, and smartphones and their requisite wireless plans, especially during this long recession of ours.  If any tablet maker wants to break through and sell their products to a high degree in this economic climate, they'd surely need to sell to the minions of "business-centric" BB users out there.  And probably few of us are serious app hounds -- maybe the reason why this tablet is so highly spec-ed for web/A/V uses is largely to target people who aren't app hounds and wouldn't mind so much that "the BB app store is a joke".

Most working adults just want their tech toys to work pretty much just as they expect straight out of the box rather than requiring much fiddling and downloading of (and fooling around w/) stuff from an app store -- music and ebooks (and games and videos to some extent) are one thing, but apps would be quite another.  If they bother to download stuff from an app store, it probably wouldn't be a regular thing, but just something they might try a little for the first week or two before settling down w/ what they have (and letting the novelty of an app store wear off).  Yeah, they might occasionally try something new based on very popular recommendations from family, friends and colleagues, but they don't need a very substantial app store for that -- if they can afford such things, they'd probably just as soon spend the $50 on something of substance sold by RIM, et al rather than try all sorts of $1 apps (other than games) that cobble together to do what they want in a DIY patchwork manner.

And like I've alluded before, honestly, what exactly does anyone really expect to do on a 7" touchscreen (w/out keyboard) anyway.  If you really need a substantial app store for your 7" device to go w/ your smartphone, IMHO, something's probably not quite right w/ that scenario (unless you just happen to fall into a certain particular niche).   IMHO, 99.999% of folks probably only benefit all that much from having a substantial app store for one or the other, but not both.  Of course, that does beg the question of where RIM customers would fall if they have both a BB and one of their tablets.

If you ask me though, I'd rather have the more substantial hardware w/ better multimedia experience, including good 1080p recording and quality standard output (like HDMI), assuming that's actually what they're offering, than an app store that offers tons of $1 games, utilities that I probably should *not* need, etc.   Of course, this tablet may not come anywhere near fulfilling what I'd like to see from such a thing since it does run RIM software, including their lousy web browser (unless that changes very substantially), afterall.

And honestly, I find that most of the apps that would actually interest me all that much from the iOS app store are just a few games and a handful web-based apps that offer quality content from a substantial content/software provider, not your average free/shareware programmer -- and in most cases, if RIM can generate enough marketshare to support such apps, then the better games and content/apps will become available.

Only time will tell how this tablet craze will shape up I guess...

_Man_

Mea cupla, I was using the word "productive" in different ways.

As a toy, it is productive in that the input isn't constrained by size.  I can get quite a lot done on my Evo, and it's considerably smaller than the Playbook.

However...

I could never use my Evo or a 7" pad as a laptop replacement for business productivity because of all the different files I need to work with.  The lack of a keyboard and mouse is a hindrance as well.  So I can be productive with a 7" pad, and productive enough for entertainment and social purposes, but I could never be as productive as I needed to be on a 7" for business.  Sorry if it sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but work and play are two different sets of expectations for me.

I could probably snag a Galaxy Pad through work, but I would have a really hard time justifying that.  And in terms of portability, 7" isn't something can slip into your pocket or snap into a belt clip.  So if it's too inconvenient to carry around with me at times, it's definitely not something I can swing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong 

Most working adults just want their tech toys to work pretty much just as they expect straight out of the box rather than requiring much fiddling and downloading of (and fooling around w/) stuff from an app store -- music and ebooks (and games and videos to some extent) are one thing, but apps would be quite another.  If they bother to download stuff from an app store, it probably wouldn't be a regular thing, but just something they might try a little for the first week or two before settling down w/ what they have (and letting the novelty of an app store wear off).  Yeah, they might occasionally try something new based on very popular recommendations from family, friends and colleagues, but they don't need a very substantial app store for that -- if they can afford such things, they'd probably just as soon spend the $50 on something of substance sold by RIM, et al rather than try all sorts of $1 apps (other than games) that cobble together to do what they want in a DIY patchwork manner.

Apps, much like broadband in the 90's, are one of those things that everyone can picture living without, but the reality is that they are quite addicting.  I don't know how many people told me that they didn't need broadband back in the day only to realize that they couldn't live without it once they got it.  My WinMo phone had crumbs, app-wise, and I was shocked at how much more fulfilling the user experience was to have working apps from a marketplace.  If you don't have apps, then you won't be able to compete in today's market.  And Playbook isn't even running regular BBOS.  So that's even less apps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanson Yoo 

Apps, much like broadband in the 90's, are one of those things that everyone can picture living without, but the reality is that they are quite addicting.  I don't know how many people told me that they didn't need broadband back in the day only to realize that they couldn't live without it once they got it.  My WinMo phone had crumbs, app-wise, and I was shocked at how much more fulfilling the user experience was to have working apps from a marketplace.  If you don't have apps, then you won't be able to compete in today's market.  And Playbook isn't even running regular BBOS.  So that's even less apps.

Nope.  Apps are not much like broadband at all.  Maybe you mean app store is much like broadband, but there's a very significant diff there.  The reason why broadband became so important is because of the ever-growing WWW (and all that it brought w/ it) *plus* there's still potential for much more in the way of content delivery, live video conferencing, etc.  But no single app store is gonna decisively provide that kind of diff like broadband vs dial-up.  Most of the more serious apps will still come from some variation on the more traditional scheme, which does not need the kind of app store you're talking about.

A better analogy is the app store are basically like eBay, not broadband.  And most apps are just like trinkets you find on eBay although there are occasional gems to be found there as well.  But nothing you cannot live w/out or cannot likely find elsewhere (unless you're some sort of decidedly not-average collector).  If I want to buy something, I'm still more likely to shop at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, the local J&R, Best Buy, whatever clothing or home furnishing retailer, real estate agency, car dealership, et al, than eBay although I have also bought some things on eBay as well -- nothing I couldn't really get via more traditional avenues though, if I'm fine w/ paying the extra for service, reliability, etc.  And yes, spending a little time on eBay can be fun as well -- in fact, the whole experience is actually almost like a game of its own.

Unless these app stores (and the apps they offer) turn into the only viable means for real content/app delivery, they will never be like broadband, but will only be like eBay, which of course certainly has its place in the grand scheme of things.  Besides, who's to say that RIM's app store will forever be a "joke" anyway?  eBay didn't become eBay because it had great software and trinkets, etc. afterall.  It's all about marketshare and the perceived, potential spending power (ie. revenue/profit generation) of that marketshare -- and doing all that's needed to acquire that kind of marketshare.  Even as big as eBay is for what it is, it doesn't come remotely close to kill other more traditional avenues for shopping online though (let alone shopping offline).  Just as eBayers only constitute a small minority of all shoppers, so it will be for app store customers.

Another good analogy would probably be the iTunes store, and so far, I have not bought a single song (or video) from it after using some sort of iPod for over 5 years (and using the clunky iTune software for ripping and managing my music all that time).  And I'm sure you agree that the iTunes store (and its ilk) hasn't forced you to shop for your music there or to buy an iPod (or iPhone) either.

_Man_

BTW, who knows?  Maybe RIM will actually become the Bose of the PDA/smartphone/tablet world.  At this point, it sure seems like that. 

_Man_

I had an iPod Touch for almost a year, and I would go to the app store all the time.  I didn't buy anything, mind you, but I downloaded tons of demos and trial versions of games.  It never crossed my mind to ever buy media from iTunes -- we had plenty of music to load up without buying more, and watching video on that screen when I'm sitting in front of a 61" HDTV makes no sense.  But yeah, the app store is the only thing that keeps gadgets like these from getting stale.

If that's how you see success w/ the app store (based on your personal experience), then that "business" model just won't fly for long.

Usually, content/software ends up commoditizing the hardware because content/software is ultimately where it's at.  But if there's no $ in the content/software, then what's the point of the hardware from the business perspective?  The iPod phenomenon had iTunes (on top of "free" ripping of everyone's existing CD collection) -- and Apple managed to control the market enough to not let the iPod turn into some sort of loss leader.  But how is the business model you're expecting to succeed actually going to succeed in the long run???

It's one thing for smartphone makers to make $ via wireless provider subsidies, but I don't see that from these tablets though.  At some point, they will cannibalize other revenue streams for the service providers (and the device makers) unless there's some big new things that help drive the tablets separately from the smartphones (and vice versa).  The kind of app store you're talking about certainly doesn't sound like *IT*.

Maybe web browsing and streaming video (both for studio produced content and live conferencing) might be it, if wireless bandwidth can actually handle the latter.  That plus maybe ebooks I guess.  But none of those has much to do w/ that kind of app store.

_Man_

There aren't much of any *real* productivity apps on any of these platforms from the various app stores near as I can tell -- all the *real* stuff are either included on the devices or (can) come from somewhere other than these app stores.

There are already too many devices vying in the gaming platform space.  Why else do you think so many games are either free or just $1 each in the Apple App Store?  But Apple's business (and brand) model is different from Google's (so far), and Apple actually makes good $$$ just the way they have it.  Likewise, RIM can also make $ the way they've been doing it as well although they do need to make improvements in order to not fall too far behind in the tech/platform curve.  Unless your tablet of choice has *THE* killer app for gaming, gaming won't matter that much in the grand scheme of things -- I have enough fun playing Solitaire or Texas Hold'em 2 or whatever few games on my BB Tour in the few spare moments I have for such things, and no, it's not because I don't like games.

People have been buying Android smartphones because they want something similar to an iPhone for something they've long been doing, ie. making phone calls, writing emails (and texting), enjoying portable music, playing a few games (w/out necessarily being real gamers), etc.  But what's really gonna drive them to get a tablet on top of (or even instead of) a smartphone?  They can already play similar kinds of games on their smartphones, and the larger 7" screen can be both a delight and a curse for most of them, and they certainly won't be using them to replace their phones (unless video phone/conferencing takes off big time).

The tablet is basically a solution that's looking for a problem -- and it's been like that forever now.  Apple at least has their brand name and the iPod/iPhone legacy, etc. to get the iPad going -- plus the iPad is actually large enough to differentiate itself more clearly from its smaller iOS brethren.  Since I (and probably most folks) wouldn't want a 7" tablet to replace my smartphone, what good is it really?  That certainly doesn't solve the convergence problem since I'd be lugging 2 devices (w/ way too much overlap to boot).

Well, actually, personally, I would indeed want such a device to replace my smartphone to the extent that I can just go back to using a cheap, "dumb" phone for phone calls (well, that and maybe play some music I guess) -- I certainly wouldn't want to pay 2x for wireless data service.  And if that's the case, then RIM has an advantage (at least so far) in that their tablet is far more likely to become an acceptable solution for business-centric users (who also happen to want a "toy") because big corporate is probably far more likely to embrace it than an Android tablet or an iPad -- plus many such users would likely have our BBs already fully subsidized by big corporate, so we certainly wouldn't be paying 2x, if we add the RIM tablet to go w/ our BB.

In truth, I suspect the reality is that there is simply enough fragmentation of the market due to different individual preferences and priorities that no one of these platforms will truly dominate until/unless one comes up w/ *THE* killer app that gives them a big leg up (and can actually stay ahead for a long while).  And as far as I can tell, that killer app won't likely come from any app store...

_Man_

Matt, a lot the ways businesses can use this device seem to be better served by a 10" pad.  7" is great for personal use, but for presentations and displays and the like, it just seems too small. 

EDIT: Heheh...  Looks like Matt responded while I "stepped away" for a bit in between writing my own response.

Hanson,

For business presentation purposes, no easily portable screen is ever big enough -- unless all you do is pitch stuff during your commuter flight or something like that.  I'm sure that's why this RIM tablet has 1080p output via HDMI because that's what you want to feed a FP system to do the business presentations.  The tablet doesn't need 1080p for its own screen, but for being a conduit (of sorts) for high quality presentation (w/ some likely modest ability to create content towards that end).

Sure, a bigger device screen can help even when doing your presentation on a FP system because you may need/want to do something on the device itself where the larger screen matters during the presentation, but it won't matter if you cannot pump high quality output to a FP system.

I'm guessing there's a way to get at least 720i output (via analog component video) from the iPad since I've seen some sort of add-on gadget to get that out of the iPhone and iPod Touch, but I have no idea what kind of quality that really gives and whether that's good enough for a quality FP presentation.  Also, it's quite possible (even likely) that many businesses already moved pass the analog video phase for their FP setups -- certainly, it's much easier to manage HDMI connectivity than analog component video, and easy-of-use and reliability should be vital for this kind of thing -- so the iPad probably isn't suitable at all for this.

Also, it sounds like the Samsung Galaxy tablet will also have HDMI output (or something similar) and can pump out 1080p.

Besides video output, the built-in video cam on the PlayBook (and Galaxy Tab), which is missing on the current iPad, might also be more useful for business purposes as you found out firsthand w/ live video chat/conferencing on your Android smartphone.

_Man_

You may want to scale back your anticipation. And definitely don't hold your breath:

http://www.loopinsight.com/2010/09/30/rim-unveils-the-playbook-and-a-bag-of-unicorns/

The Playbook OS is QNX. RIM purchased QNX in April. They are announcing Playbook for "early 2011". Are they going to be able to create a competent, bug free touch UI from scratch in the space of a year from design to market? It took over three years between Google's acquisition of Android to the introduction of the G1, and that was barely competent and not at all bug free. Perhaps not having 3G radios will shorten dev time. But an early 2011 release sound ultra-ambitious and a bit fanciful.

I don't know about unicorns, but it seemed odd to have a big announcement only to show...special effects videos... Compare, as always, to Apple. New hardware announced. Then everyone walks to the next room to play with the new hardware. Well, except for the White iPhone. But it's white, like unicorns, so probably requires real unicorn hair to make. Which is hard to come by. Especially in China.

Ok: so what's all this Adobe Air QNX mean? Is sounds like the Playbook's OS is Flash? How's this compare to iOS and Android and WP7?

They seem to be out of their depth a little but stll ahead of anyone but Apple.  Looks like they may actually pull it off!

Good news, it will be under $500

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/10/blackberry-playbook-to-cost-under-500/

Bad news, launching some time in Q1 it will be up against the second generation iPad....

Is that subsidized with a 2 yr contract? Or straight purchase?

I'm not a blackberry user, but I can't fathom who wants the PlayBook. In my experience, Hardcore BB users buy it for the keyboard. Casual users buy it for a simpler device (than an Android or iPhone) that has a keyboard for email. And companies that are locked into BB as a corporate phone are, in my perception, slow and conservative--not at all the places that will adopt a new touchscreen device for novel business use.

It's going to be a curious 2011 with all these new phones and tablets competing.