Boardwalk Empire official discussion thread - Page 5

Does Van Alden remind anyone else of Brother Justin in Carnivale? He was also hugely devoted to God, a psychopath and liked to flog himself at night. I just can't help but think of Clancy Brown every time Van Alden is on screen.

I suppose they're going with the idea that a black congregation would be dismissed out of hand in 1920, but I would think 30+ people telling the same story about what happened would still carry some weight.  They can't know it, but Van Alden's boss is looking for any excuse to bring him to heel, so he would pursue their allegations.  Of course, then as now, fear is a powerful motivator and they may just keep quiet.  Still, the Feds are going to have to know what happened to their man.  I think in the real world, this would be Van Alden's end, but I doubt that's the arc they're going with for the character.

Meanwhile, damn.  I didn't want Harrow to get too deep into Jimmy's world, but he's stone cold.  "I kill the mother.  The sisters.  The dentist.  That'll make them pop their heads up."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete York 

It was a fine line in the first place, but they took Van Alden from a troubled, conflicted human being to a psychopath. I'm not sure it was a good move, but we shall see.  

I thought Van Alden was a psychopath since the pilot.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein 

That whole bit with Van Alden just seemed so 

entirely out of sorts.  Wish they had not gone in

that direction unless there is a payoff to the 

nonsense.

I thought his actions were right in line with his character.  I just hope this doesn't spell the end of Van Alden on the show.

I've always thought Van Alden was crazy, and that it's starting to unravel.  I doubt he makes it past the next episode, so we don't have to worry about what consequences he has for the murder.  I think he either goes to try and kill Nucky, or ends up killing himself, something a long those lines. 

There's still a line between being crazy and being a murderer (leaving aside the legal definitions). Obviously we could see early on Van Alden was disturbed (the assault/torture of the survivor from the shooting in the woods), but now, due to the position he holds and what his actions have betrayed, they have arguably made him the biggest 'villain' on the show. At one point we had a flawed, damaged person as the 'good guy' and now the dynamic has changed and we have nothing but degrees of really bad guys. I tend to find one more interesting than the other. But again, this has been an excellent trip so far, and I expect the show will be just fine.   

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete York 

At one point we had a flawed, damaged person as the 'good guy' and now the dynamic has changed and we have nothing but degrees of really bad guys.

Not that Van Alden taking the law into his own hands is OK but he didn't kill an innocent man for no reason. He killed someone who had murdered a witness and is actively thwarting his investigation and since his superiors wouldn't believe him, he did what he felt was right and killed him. Or at least, I think it's safe to assume that he feels that he's doing the right thing by killing the guilty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete York 

There's still a line between being crazy and being a murderer (leaving aside the legal definitions). Obviously we could see early on Van Alden was disturbed (the assault/torture of the survivor from the shooting in the woods), but now, due to the position he holds and what his actions have betrayed, they have arguably made him the biggest 'villain' on the show. At one point we had a flawed, damaged person as the 'good guy' and now the dynamic has changed and we have nothing but degrees of really bad guys. I tend to find one more interesting than the other. But again, this has been an excellent trip so far, and I expect the show will be just fine.   

I always thought of him being a psychopath that could and would commit murder if the opportunity presented itself.
 

I tend to weigh Van Alden's transgressions more heavily than say a thug who wipes out other thugs in a gang fight, because I think we can assume he also swore an oath to uphold the laws of the land. That he tossed that aside, betraying the public trust, to satisfy his own sense of righteousness elevates his crimes above that of the street criminal to a dangerous, rarefied evil. The interesting parallel is between Van Alden's killing of the crooked agent and Nucky ordering the death of Hans Schroeder, the justification for both being that the victim deserved it.    

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Crawford 


I always thought of him being a psychopath that could and would commit murder if the opportunity presented itself.
 

I guess my point would be that he *hadn't yet* gone that far. I'll call it the dramatic frisson, or something equally stupid like that, of 'how far is this guy going to go?' and which was a big part of Van Alden's arc. I'll agree with Steve_Tk that now that they've gone there, there's not much left for the character to do.

There's an interview with Michael Shannon discussing the character and the events of the latest episode at HBO's site:

http://www.hbo.com/#/boardwalk-empire/episodes/01/11-paris-green/interview/interview-with-michael-shannon 

Please read the quote below, I'm too stupid to know how to get it on top.

Yes, I've already been told how, refer to the "I'm too stupid" part.

Perhaps the congregation would talk about one crazy white man drowning another. A crazy white man with a badge? No damn way would they utter a word.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg_S_H 

I suppose they're going with the idea that a black congregation would be dismissed out of hand in 1920, but I would think 30+ people telling the same story about what happened would still carry some weight. 

I would expect Chalky, or one of his men, to hear about this almost immediately.

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Originally Posted by Dheiner 

I would expect Chalky, or one of his men, to hear about this almost immediately.

I'm thinking the same thing. 

Yes.  Chalky is someone they WOULD tell.

And then Van Alden is in Nucky's back pocket. 

I loved seeing Chalky wink at his girl while getting the evil eye from the white people at the party.

Am I the only one who skips the title sequence?  I wish they had gone more period, as the song just clashes with everything.  The last sequence with the other song seems like it would have been fantastic, but I wasn't really in the mood last night.  Everything else was good.  Jimmy's wife getting a bob was a pretty big slap, since he had just told her the story about dreaming about her long hair in the trenches.  Ouch.  It doesn't seem like Jimmy has what it takes to be the new Nucky, since he is pretty much just dumb muscle (selling him short, since he did start to come into his own in Chicago).  But, I guess with the Commodore being the brains, he has the capacity to learn.  The D'Alessio segment was a good one.  Harrow is a stoney bastard, even killing the kid.  That was pretty sad watching him fumble to load the pistol.  No other option, though, except not letting him see the tin-faced killer.  And, looks like Rothstein learned from Jimmy (though, he thinks he's learning from Nucky) by accepting the alcohol and then getting it for free with a gunshot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg_S_H 

Am I the only one who skips the title sequence?  I wish they had gone more period, as the song just clashes with everything. 

I don't skip it but I completely agree with you that it clashes with the show. On its own, I like the song but I don't know why they chose to use it as the theme.

Interesting.  I came on here expecting to see everyone disappointed with the finale (as I was as well as the 2 workmates I talked to about it).

I thought it had it's moments, but there was way too much character development.  I'm all for character development, but not on the season finale of a show we probably won't see for 8 months.

I don't have a problem with the title sequence other than the dorky way Nucky walks away on the beach at the end of it.  I think if his rivals saw that he would no longer seem to be a threat to them.

Overall great season of a great show though and looking forward to season 2.

Margaret returned to Nucky due to money? I didn't get that. At least not directly. What I got is while they were together, she actually started to build a relationship with him. Then they had their "recognition blowup" and she left. But she continued to struggle with the fact that while he did some really bad things, there was also good in him. Her kids missed him. Her quality of life was better in many ways with him. Nucky opened up to her about the death of his wife and son, telling her she now knows more about him than any other person on Earth.

While Nucky was at the election celebration, he was certainly not above putting the moves on a new woman, but when Margaret walked in the door, everything stopped. He loves Margaret as much as he can love anyone. Not enough to give up his lifestyle, but barring that, she's up there. She knows and feels all this, and decides she can live with a bit more sin than she previously thought. I don't thing her struggle is over, but at least she's going in with her eyes open now. In this way, she is a bit more like Carmela Soprano. Except I get the feeling there's still a part of Margaret that wonders why Nucky can't leave that behind, whereas I don't think Carmela ever wanted to lose the trappings of being Tony Soprano's wife.

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Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco 

Margaret returned to Nucky due to money? I didn't get that.

I don't think money was the sole factor for her to return to him but the episode makes it clear that it was definitely the deciding factor. Margaret was having the 'superstitution cake' with Harding's mistress and she got the rag in her piece (indicating that she'd be a pauper) and I'm pretty sure that the next time that we see her, she's going back to Nucky.

True. That's a pretty big oversight in my commentary. I saw it as "a" factor, not the deciding one. If you do something you don't want to do, you don't usually have the look of peace she had with returning to Nucky. It wasn't like, "Fine, you win." It was, "You know those shades of gray we've been talking about... You have a point." I think the rag was a factor, but the fact that it came last doesn't inherently make it more significant than the other factors. She's a pretty sharp lady. I think she knew the financial ramifications of leaving Nucky before she did it. Did the rag touch an already sore spot? I'm sure it did. But honestly... are we saying we think we have a lady here who abhors everything Nucky is, but is willing to be with him and let him around her children just for the money? I just don't see that in her eyes, and I haven't seen that she's that type of woman.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco 

True. That's a pretty big oversight in my commentary. I saw it as "a" factor, not the deciding one. If you do something you don't want to do, you don't usually have the look of peace she had with returning to Nucky. It wasn't like, "Fine, you win." It was, "You know those shades of gray we've been talking about... You have a point." I think the rag was a factor, but the fact that it came last doesn't inherently make it more significant than the other factors. She's a pretty sharp lady. I think she knew the financial ramifications of leaving Nucky before she did it. Did the rag touch an already sore spot? I'm sure it did. But honestly... are we saying we think we have a lady here who abhors everything Nucky is, but is willing to be with him and let him around her children just for the money? I just don't see that in her eyes, and I haven't seen that she's that type of woman.

I concur.