BVHE Press Release: Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 Special Edition (Blu-Ray) - Page 4

I agree, Bigshot. I love the 1990 version. I wish they would just release that if they can't find the original tracks.

Why is "the 120 minute version of the film that was on the laserdisc is the one that counts"?

 

If I understand correctly (and please set me straight if I don't), the 125-minute version that's on DVD (and soon Blu-ray) is the originally-released version of the film (except for the cropping of the "Sunflower" scenes and the dubbing of Deems Taylor).  Why isn't the original version "the one that counts"?  What makes the laserdisc version specifically superior to all the other alternate versions that were created over the years?

I was under the impression that a few scenes were still cut from the original cinema release, perhaps done by Walt Disney himself for a later re-release but nevertheless still cut out due to "political correctness" or because Disney regretted the scenes in the first place, still from an historical viewpoint it would be good to have a full uncut original edition from the first cinema release, of course that will never happen in today's climate.
 

 

None of us are infallible and I am only going by the memories of a Disney animator that is no longer with us that I was able to spend a some time with back in the 80's and the actual booking of the film in the 80's and 90's.

 

One thing is certain, Fantasia went through a lot of changes over the years and unless you were in one of the 12 theatres that showed the road show in 1940 you will never see the original version.
 

Edited by ahollis - 9/9/10 at 10:17am

The added roadshow scenes contribute nothing to the movie. They just slow down already slow introductions. They were cut before the film went into general release for good reason. The laserdisc version (aside from the Pastoral censorship) was the way the film always looked to general audiences. It included both the original mono and the recreated Fantasound stereo tracks. There was no audio sweetening (adding new sound effects, remixing, etc.) and the color manipulation and intrusive digital restoration that Disney uses on every release now wasn't used. The laserdisc of Fantasia was about the last really accurate video release Disney did. (Aside from the black centaurettes being cut).

There was a mono track on the Laserdisc? Mine doesn't have one. Or was this exclusive to the CAV box set?

I just happen to see this posting containing all the specs for the future Blu-ray edition of Fantasia. I can't believe my eyes: I see no indication of an alternative audio soundtrack that might have been offering the 1982 true Dolby Stereo reorchestrated by Irwin Kostal.  This is simply sad.  I don't believe I'll get that edition because of that missing feature.  Even though the picture quality will be inprooved, I can't find satisfaction with the original audio quality.  I know that the original soundtrack must be there but, for goodness sake, why not include an alternative audio track for people like me who prefer a high fidelity soundtrack.  The Fantasound of 1940 sounds so terrible. 

I'm gonna go ahead and COMPLETELY disagree with you.  Jesus, this is a 60 year-old film... it's never going to sound pristine.  However, the audio on the Fantasia DVD is fine, and will likely be even better on the blu-ray.  And the Kostal re-recording isn't there because IT'S NOT THE ACTUAL SOUNDTRACK, and ISN'T PART OF THE FILM.  It shouldn't be there.

 

I can't imagine somebody actually skipping this release because of this.  Your loss.

 

 

I agree with Craig. I think the folks at Disney realized that reissuing Fantasia in 1982 with a re-recorded digital soundtrack was a mistake and that is most likely why it has never appeared on any of the home video incarnations. The new soundtrack was issued on LP and cassette, but I can't even find any evidence that it was ever released on CD. I agree it would make a nice supplement for the blu-ray, but I for one would never watch the movie with anything but the classic Leopold Stokowski original recording, which by the way is far from terrible.

The digital soundtrack was released on CD. I have it.

Indeed, the 1982 CD existed. 

As for the original  1940  soundtrack is concern, it will never sound good. Not even on Blu-ray.  Since there has been a new recording in 1982, why not offering it for the fist time?  I'm only suggesting it because it existed.  It is not like asking a new recording!  You make me sound like an iconoclast.  It may be my lost, but I assume it completely. 

I seem to remember at the time that reviews of the new Kostal track attached to the original images were not positive. Seems like with a different emphasis on key passages from the conductor, the music didn't fit the images nearly as well as on the original recordings. As I say, I'm operating on a decades-old memory about that release, but I don't think it was received heartily.

Even though the Kostal version had some negative reviews in the 80's, I still can't understand that Disney is acting like they never presented that version to the world,  Think of it, so many people saw Fantasia for the first time in their life with the Kostal soundtrack version.  At that time, Disney was so proud to bring a new sound to the movie and I remember it was fabulous.  I remember the new rendition to Ave Maria gave me goose bumps.  Now, Disney acts like it never existed?  THAT would have been a great bonus to the Blu-ray edition. It's just sad...

The Kostal version is seriously out of sync with the action in the Rite of Spring, and the rearrangement of Toccata and Fugue doesn't match the scale of the imagery at all. Even as a teenager, I could tell that the soundtrack was all messed up. It's best left buried. This is Stoki's picture. Disney has never had any sense for classical music. Only a total idiot would replace one of the greatest conductors who ever lived with the guy who conducted Mary Poppins. The reason Kostal did it was that no one better would have had the gall.

Wow...  I'm speechless.  Excuse me for beeing such an uncult.

Although their exclusion would never prevent me from buying Fantasia on Blu-Ray, there might have been some value presenting the Kostal recordings on an alternate audio track.  I believe the interstitial segments were cut differently in the 1982 version, but I'm pretty sure the animated segments were all the same length, so it wouldn't have been too difficult.  The Kostal recordings should, of course, never be presented as definitive, but they are an interesting footnote in the history of this film.

It sounded good to me last time i heard it on DVD, sure it may not have the range of a modern mixed soundtrack but to say it didn't sound good is wrong.

 

Anyway you will at least get a new recording of the Mickey Mouse segment on Fantasia 2000. ( at least it sounded more dynamic and new to me )

If we take your logic to it's extreme then why don't we also go in and remix all those older movies to make then sound like new film mixes, hey let's remix Lawrence Of Arabia and bring it to modern audiences with deeper bass and more surround sound!

Your statement proves you don't get my logic. I'm talking of an existing soundtrack.  That same soundtrack that has been shown in every theaters in the 80's, for goodness sake. 
 

Logic?  You are refusing to buy the blu-ray because it doesn't include an alternate/modern version of the soundtrack (created 42 years after the film was made!), and you consider that logical? 

The problem with the Kostal soundtrack goes to the core of what Fantasia is- animation to music. When the film was made, Stokowski arranged and recorded the music before the film entered production. The animators broke down Stokowski's performance to a 24th of a second and animated exactly to it. Every accent in the music is reflected on the screen.

When Kostal re-recorded it, first of all, he didn't have permission to use Stoki's arrangement of Toccata and Fugue in D Minor. He came up with his own arrangement that was not only awful, it didn't match the visuals on the screen. But that wasn't the worst. He was unable to precisely match the accents and rhythms, so the soundtrack keeps falling in and out of sync with the visuals. This didn't matter much in gentle bits like the Sugar Plum Fairies, but in the Stravinsky it turned into a car wreck. Rite of Spring is difficult enough to control for any conductor, but to try to precisely match an existing performance was impossible.

The only kind of person who would have even attempted to re-record Fantasia would be 1) not an animator and 2) not a musician. Only an executive would decide to attempt something that is both wrong headed and impossible.

Even if they wanted to include the digital track, it wouldn't work with the Pastoral sequence because the edits to eliminate the racial characters were different then than they are now. They would have to include two versions of that sequence.

 

I didn't realize that; did the timing change?  At any rate, like I said, this is the furthest thing from a deal-breaker for me (in fact, I had never even thought about the possibility of Disney including the Kostal recordings before I saw this thread) but the film history buff in me is always interested in alternate presentations of classic films.  I'd even be interested in seeing the 1942 cut, just out of curiosity (but I'm sure that would never happen).

Before there's talk of alternate audio options for a movie, I would prefer that the studio release the original uncut in the first place. A true special edition would feature everything, the cut segments, the Deems Taylor audio, and the Irwin Kostal re-recorded soundtrack, but Disney apparently doesn't think the movie's worth it.

I suppose, in a perverse way, Walt's vision for Fantasia was realized. It is never complete, and it is always changing. 

Just about every Disney movie has been altered. Usually the soundtracks are the most worked over, but colors, effects animation and backgrounds are fair game.

Brilliant, Matthew. 

Destino really looks more like Pocahantas than Dali. Is the New set going to include the Claire de Lune sequence? I'd much rather have that.

I'm working on the set now. It's not on disc one (which is the Fantasia disc). I'm guessing it has not been included. It may be in the BD-Live accessible Legacy Vault.

 

I don't have it, but I believe Destino is on the Blu-Ray of Fantasia 2000 (but not on the non-Blue Ray disk !