WHV Announcement: The Essential Bugs Bunny - Page 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Lugoff 

We've had this discussion before, and there's no reason that they would have had to start at the beginning with Bosko.

 

In fact, there's no reason they ever had to do Bosko.

 

They could have called it The Complete Classic Looney Tunes, or something, and started in 1935, when Porky Pig made his debut.  (For example, "The Little Rascals" started with the sound era, skipping many years of silents.)

 

I believe any sets with the faces of Porky, Bugs, Daffy, etc. staring out at customers -- with the words Complete Looney Tunes on the box -- would have been almost guaranteed best sellers.

 

Warners had more great cartoon characters than any other studio.  If they did "character" sets, they'd need to do Bugs, Porky, Daffy, Tweety and Road Runner for sure -- and there are many fans of Foghorn, Pepe LePew and Speedy Gonzales.

 

Why bother with all of that, when every set would have many (if not most) of the characters, and make everyone happy?  (I for one would be loath to plunk down money for a Pepe LePew set -- you've seen one, you've seen 'em all -- just to be a completist.)

 

Considering the great success Sony has had with the Complete Three Stooges, after years of random releases, it seems to me a total no-brainer that a Complete Classic Looney Tunes, 1935-1964, would have been a best seller.

 

They blew it!

Ah, but WITHOUT Bosko, any Looney Tunes Collection would not be COMPLETE! 

And, if there’s two things we seem to want as a group, it’s “Chronological AND Complete”! 

The “Complete Three Stooges” is exactly that -- COMPLETE! 

And that includes Joe Besser, regardless of what some fans may think of his pictures.  It’s a wonderful thing Sony did with The Three Stooges. 

It’s probably too late – and maybe even unworkable, given Warner’s present strategies – for this to happen with Looney Tunes, and that’s just too bad for us all. 

Let’s decide what we want.  If we want the “complete anything”, that would include Bosko, Buddy, Merlin the Magic Mouse, Rudy Larriva Road Runners, Joe Besser, The Great Gazoo, and even Scrappy-Doo – depending on the franchise. 

If we want “Classic”, that opens the debate to personal taste (even if it is a decided majority preference), and is a “whole ‘nother kettle o’ fish”.   

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeoAmes 

1,003 sounds impressive, but these are cartoon shorts. We're talking about things that run 6-10 minutes. Say 8 minutes is average. That's just a bit over 130 hours of material. Doesn't sound impossible to me...

 

If restoration is what is keeping it away, release it unrestored. I want the best looking/most complete prints available, it doesn't necessarily require expensive restoration if that's what is keeping it away.

Steve...O is correct. What WB does with the Looney Tunes is not the same as what is done by other studios to other classic series.

I don't think it's impossible to do all 1,003 of them either, but it will take a lot of time and resources. A full calendar year was supposedly needed to restore 60 films for each annual Golden Collection. Sony, at one point, was releasing three or four Stooges volumes in roughly the same timeframe.

And restoration is precisely where they should not skimp. No subpar LTs have been released yet and it would be a shame to start. This was the reported reason for the Super Stars delay, and is one area I'll be keeping a close eye on when this first wave comes in August. Too much classic animation has already been released in poor form (Chronological Donald Volume 2 still sticks out like a sore thumb some five years later). If it requires extra careful planning and/or reconfiguration to get it done, so be it. But the level of restoration given the GCs should be maintained.

Limited editions are another familiar effort. It encouraged collectors to act quickly on the Disney Treasures each year, with the more popular titles gone in just a few months. WB could employ a similar tactic to get a more immediate return from the collector base, while adding to their double-dip catalog for general consumer releases.

a lot of the repackage is the econemy, basicly go with what will sale.

but there is serious unfinishe business that one day i hope will be resolved, and i wont mention my biggest gripe, but originaly WB stated that they had a deal with king features to do all the popeye's . ALL The POPEYES!. ok so it has been some time and i am waiting on volume 4, the famous studios era.  i loved the set up for the gold collections

LT is a hard mix, because the toons cross over into other toons cross over into other toons, but maybe they can return to something like that

There has been some great discussion here.  The varied nature of the opinions is why WHV is never going to please everyone on this and is also why they went with the approach with the broadest appeal and highest marketability. 

A prior post mentioned having chronological within a disc and having different years within a set.   One of the major roadblocks to that is the sheer volume of shorts released within a year.  Every year of the 40s except one had at least 20 titles released and half the years had 30+ and two had 40+.  Half the years in the 50s also had 30+ and none were under 20. 

Limiting the collection to "Classic" cartoons is fraught with risk.  One person's classic is another's junk.

I absolutely agree with the posts above that say restoration efforts should be maintained and WHV needs to stay away from sub-par releases.  The restorations they are doing are not just for home video but will also serve to keep these marketable for TV and perhaps even theatrical viewings not to mention preserving the historical importance of these cartoons.

In my opinion, I don't want WHV to "Disneyize" these releases with limited editions followed by countless reissues over time.   They should make these available to the mass market.  There should be enough public support for this to happen.  Their own publicity indicates 1.3mm units shipped for the 6 volumes so far or over 200k per volume.  That's pretty good given the higher price tag associated with them.

By "classic," I meant the "classic years," i.e., after Porky Pig was invented.  Those years -- 1935-64 -- should be released complete, in chronological order, and to hell with Bosko!

I don't know why people always get hung up on an "all or nothing" way of thinking.  They didn't have to start "at the beginning."  In the first years, they were just finding their way.  We all know that Porky Pig was their first superstar, so they could have started with the year he made his debut.

As I said, "The Little Rascals" started at the sound era, even though there were about seven years of silents that preceded it!

First off, we have to look at animation history at WB, two lines, Merry Melodies and Loony Tunes, some of this is interchangeable, as to the way cartoons were released, as for doing them in a chronological order, I am absolutely all for that, which stated it does need Bosco!! Leaving him out would be a disservice to the correctness of that set. If you think that a cartoon character, isn’t that important, I will bring up one of the biggest swaps in history, that fact that the Disney Company traded Al Michaels for the Oswald toons that Disney did, instead of having Universal have all of them. As for the first superstar, Porky started with a partner, but Beans fell along the wayside and with the advances along the way, people are discussing years and amount of cartoons. But what e hasn’t been discussed is that a Blu ray will hold 50 G of info, so the possibility does exist for this to be done in a reasonable amount of sets. Make it another two tier set up like they had when releasing the Golden Collections. Missed out on the lasers, but I can remember when the vhs sets of the gold carrot collections came out. Loony Tunes has always done well for WB. And the fact that they have so much more to work with, the rest of the Popeye sets, the complete MGM toon library, just amazing stuff, that I want to see done correctly, restored, and unedited. As I would like to see Universal complete the rest of the Walter Lance Woody Woodpecker sets, and if Lionsgate/CBS/Paramount would get off of there ass and do a Complete Betty Boop set.

As for a statement someone made earlier, what Sony did with the Stooges sets, was perfect, after many years of lackluster disappointments, yes they got it right, and to tell the truth, as I have watched the Bessers, while not as great as there heyday, it is an older group of Stooges, more verbal and less physical, and still works for them.

As for the “The Little Rascals” well that isn’t complete, at least not from one source, the Roach comedies that RHI/Genius did was not a perfect set, a few flaws here and there, but given the age and condition of the material, it was acceptable. The MGM “Our Gang” is a MOD at WB archive, and Laughsmith Entertainment has been trying for years to get the silents into a package and I am waiting on it. So while not complete, it is what it is and only time will tell how these things will pan out.

The biggest issue is what said company can do to mass market the product, how well it is going to sale to Joe Six-pack and Mary Minivan at Wal-Mart,  while at the same time make the film / animation aficionado happy with the set.

So if they don't give us Bosko, but every single cartoon from Porky Pig's debut to the end, the whole thing is ruined for you?

It's like those Stooge fanatics who are bent out of shape that the Stooge pre-Columbia stuff isn't all available.

"Completists" can be hard to deal with.  I collect many things, and I never have, and never will, have a "complete" collection of anything, in any category.

If Warner decided not to go "chronological" because they knew Bosko sets wouldn't fly off the shelves, then the whole thing is a terrible shame.  There's no earthly reason they couldn't have started with Looney Tunes 1935-1936, and gone on from there -- and if they never went back to the Bosko-infested early '30s, that's life!  But look at what we would have had.  That glass would have been way more than half full.

If you ended up owning every Looney Tunes cartoon, except the Bosko years, you'd just have to pick up the shattered pieces of your life and struggle on.

I don't consider myself a Stooge fanatic, but I really want to see those pre-Columbia films. The ones with Ted Healy need a definitive collection. WB should really make an effort now that Sony's paved the way with their awesome series.

Part of the issue with Bosko and the early LTs are that they're in black and white. WB likes to avoid B&W as much as possible, which wasn't as big a problem with the Golden Collections because they were part of a set.

If there is any hope of seeing the less popular films - be they B&W, miscellaneous one-shots, etc - there needs to be proper balancing within a series, even one aimed at collectors. My suggestion of two-disc sets, with one character disc and one miscellaneous disc, would serve this well.

With a catalog as massive as this one, there really is no pleasing everyone.

Personally, I was overjoyed with the Golden Collections. Was it the "perfect" approach to releasing these cartoons on DVD? No. But I appreciate the care and effort that was made to produce a quality product -- WB went back to the original color separations to restore so many of the cartoons -- remember how the color pre-1948 shorts used to look in the pre-home video days? (The a.a.p. ones, or as I used to call them, the "Turner Brothers" cartoons.) Tell me WB's restorations of cartoons like "Baseball Bugs" and "The Wacky Wabbit" didn't blow you away the first time you saw them!

It kind of surprises me that someone would just want a complete Bugs Bunny set (or indeed, any specific character) and nothing else. But from many postings here and elsewhere -- well, you learn something new every day, and we all have our own preferences. Indeed, it might have been interesting had WB done something similar to the "Disney Treasures" and done chronological collections for each character -- I suppose, though, one issue might be the many cartoons which paired (for instance) Daffy Duck and Porky Pig; Daffy Duck and Bugs Bunny; Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd; Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd; Elmer Fudd and Sylvester; Porky Pig and Sylvester, etc. etc. That would make it a little trickier. (Though the Disney cartoons often featured two or more star characters together, I think the WB cartoons did it more often and with more different combinations of characters. Whose set should certain ones go into, or should they "double dip," like the Disney Treasures sets did to some extent?)

As I understand it, WB initially went with the Golden Collection format (which originally was a one-shot deal, with the possibility of future volumes dependent on sales) based on an already-in-progress restoration project being done with the cartoons. Several titles were being restored for international theatrical and video releases already, so Jerry Beck was (in some cases) handed a list of titles and had to work those into the release schedule, since they were already set to go. And there is no pleasing everybody -- some people only like the Bob Clampett cartoons, some only wanted the pre-1948s, some only wanted the ones they remember seeing on Saturday morning television when they were kids. And so on. And the content doesn't end with 1,003 cartoons -- there are also numerous TV specials, new animation produced for "The Bugs Bunny Show," later cartoons produced after WB started making contemporary cartoons again in the late 1980s, etc. etc.

WB's reaquiring of the pre-1948s from Turner was a double-edged sword. On the plus side, WB had all the color separations, so they were able to do some wonderful restorations on those titles. But when they were under different ownership, it gave each entity a more finite and manageable number of cartoons to work with -- I'm pretty sure Turner released very close to (but not quite) all its Warner Bros. cartoons as part of their laserdisc collections -- they had less than 350 cartoons to choose from. Still, both companies constantly "double-dipped" on their past Beta, VHS and Laserdisc releases.

Maybe a limited edition, online or burn-on-demand program could be the answer for certain parts of the catalog -- say, the B&W cartoons, or the later 1960s pairings of Daffy Duck and Speedy Gonzales. (Actually, if they did "complete set" releases for Speedy and the Road Runner, that would take care of a good chunk of the 1960s shorts that would probably be received with scorn and disdain otherwise.) If they did a collection like that of Bosko and the other early B&W Looney Tunes characters, I would hope they'd add the MGM Harman-Ising Bosko cartoons as extras. But that would probably never see the light of day as a mainstream release.

Anyway, bring it on...if it's true that they have decided against the three "new-to-DVD" shorts on this new Bugs Bunny set, maybe it's because they've been listening to the feedback here and elsewhere. It seems they've been marketing these cartoons to two separate and distinct audiences -- casual fans/kids (who got the Spotlight Collections) and collectors (who got the Golden Collections). It must be working, if they're going ahead with more releases.

what i find funny is what is all the hate for bosco, look not every ones cup of tea, but the pre columbia stooges need done corectly, the fact is if you are going to do something then do it right, not half assed, like the tom and jerry sets, the fact that one toon is in the sets (texas tom) twice is one mistake, but to omit three because of the material, when they had a disclamer, makes the disclamer redundent,

for the sake of art, i want to see bosco, and oswald, and i would like to see fox do H&J

I have read that Warner Archive is indeed doing something with the Three Stooges. A few MGM shorts have come out as extras on a couple DVDs (which I think are deleted now anyway). What was posted about this was very cryptic, but apparently would involve Shemp's solo Vitaphone shorts as well -- maybe it'll be a comprehensive comedy shorts set? Then there are the several feature films in which the Stooges had a scene or two. Most of that was covered in the "Lost Stooges" TV special. One of the Healy/Stooge films -- "Myrt And Marge" -- was a Universal picture -- hope that one is safe and sound, and will surface eventually. Cinemax showed it in the 1980s alongside some of the later Columbia Stooge features.

Here are the MGM Stooge shorts:

Nertsery Rhymes (Technicolor)

Beer & Pretzels

Hello Pop (Technicolor) (a lost film)

Plane Nuts

The Big Idea

Roast-Beef And Movies (Technicolor) (Curly and two other guys)

Jail Birds Of Paradise (Technicolor) (Curly and Moe) (lost)

Abbott & Costello are almost complete on DVD -- "Rio Rita" and "A&C Meet Captain Kidd" are still holdouts (both owned by WB). WB also should have the best elements on "Jack And The Beanstalk." I'd like to see an "official" version of "Africa Screams" too, not sure who would have the original ele ments on that one.

There's no perfect way to release something like LT. Too many characters, eras and types of fans. I thought the box sets were great because there was something for everyone. But sets like that probably stop selling after awhile.

I'm still pushing for character sets. I'm just not sure you can avoid the double dip that way. Not if you want to do complete sets that is. I'm avoiding the new Bugs set because it's too much of a rerun. But I still hope it does great so we can get sets from Daffy, Porky & Foghorn.

Foghorn, in particular, has not been overexposed on DVD yet and could easily be done in a complete set.

Why would Warner go through the headache of deciding what should go on which set?

As someone pointed out, there are so many Bugs/Daffy and Porky/Daffy teamings -- there's even a Leghorn/Daffy cartoon from 1956 -- that decisions would have to be made as to where to put them, or else they'd show up twice (or three times!) in character sets.

All this would be avoided if the decision were made to release ALL of them -- once and for all -- in chronological order.  And each set would have something for everyone!

Besides, who in his or her right mind would want to sit down and watch every Pepe LePew cartoon at once?  They're all the same!  (And, let's face it, so are the Road Runner cartoons, but they have more variations in the jokes.)  But seeing them spaced out (which is how they were released to theaters, of course), at the rate of one or two a set, would be ok.

But good old Bosko screwed up this plan.  If they started with Bosko, sales would be disastrous, and the plug would be pulled.

So DON'T start with Bosko!  I love chronological order as much as anyone on earth, but there's no particular reason to begin at the beginning (which was the Mad Hatter's advice to Alice, and he was crazy!)

This is all a moot point.  Warners isn't going to start over with Looney Tunes.  They blew this one big time.

At one time, I thought I remember hearing that WB was thinking about Looney Tunes on Blu ray. Maybe they would rethink the Golden Collections mode and go with some type of chronological release for that. But then, how many people want to start over with Blu ray?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisALM 

At one time, I thought I remember hearing that WB was thinking about Looney Tunes on Blu ray. Maybe they would rethink the Golden Collections mode and go with some type of chronological release for that. But then, how many people want to start over with Blu ray?

It would all depend on the quality of the Blu-ray treatment and the extra features included. 

This WOULD be their chance to do “Complete” and “Chronological” correctly! 

It could start with Bosko and end with Cool Cat’s “Injun Trouble” (if anyone ever saw that it would probably be censored anyway) – or it could more easily follow my suggestion of pairing “Popular Years” with “Unpopular Years” in the same set, as Blu-ray could “pack it in densely”…

…But it would feel less like a double dip – and could be the “Specialty Project” fans and collectors have dreamed about! 

Naaah!  It’ll never happen!  Warner is no longer concerned with anything but the mass market consumer – and their animation releases of the last 2 years have proved this unerringly. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tor1 

Quote:

 

It would all depend on the quality of the Blu-ray treatment and the extra features included. 

 

This WOULD be their chance to do “Complete” and “Chronological” correctly! 

 

It could start with Bosko and end with Cool Cat’s “Injun Trouble” (if anyone ever saw that it would probably be censored anyway) – or it could more easily follow my suggestion of pairing “Popular Years” with “Unpopular Years” in the same set, as Blu-ray could “pack it in densely”…

 

 

…But it would feel less like a double dip – and could be the “Specialty Project” fans and collectors have dreamed about! 

 

Naaah!  It’ll never happen!  Warner is no longer concerned with anything but the mass market consumer – and their animation releases of the last 2 years have proved this unerringly. 

 

When I speak of Blu ray, I am talking about a genuine Blu ray treatment, a top quality release. If WB tried anything short of that, I don't think it would work. People wouldn't buy it.

It would feel less like a double dip if they started this hypothetical Blu ray release as soon as possible, not waiting until several hundred more Looney Tunes have been released on standard definition. They could, and should, continue to release standard definition in a variety collections for those not interested in owning all the 1000+ Looney Tunes. If WB continues to wait to go Blu ray, I think more and more people are likely to be content with the standard definition releases, and balk at the upgrade.

I agree with you though, I doubt it is going to happen. But, I can dream about it.

Recap:

***17 "Classic" Cartoons:

1-Baseball Bugs
2-Rabbit of Seville
3-What's Opera, Doc?
...

15-Invasion of the Bunny Snatchers
16-Carrotblanca
17-Hare and Loathing in Las Vegas

***Choice TV Specials:

-How Bugs Bunny Won The West

-Bugs Bunny's Wild World Of Sports

***1 New Featurette:

-Bugs Bunny:Ain't He A Stinker?

***Rare Appearances:

-Two Guys from Texas

-My Dream Is Your

(((Any more info?)))

Quote:

Originally Posted by babygrace1234 

(((Any more info?)))

Yep.

• Disc 1:
  • Elmer's Candid Camera (1940, Jones)
  • A Wild Hare (1940, Avery)
  • The Old Grey Hare (1944, Clampett)
  • Baseball Bugs (1946, Freleng)
  • Hair Raising Hare (1946, Jones)
  • Haredevil Hare (1948, Jones)
  • 8 Ball Bunny (1950, Jones)
  • Rabbit of Seville (1950, Jones)
  • Rabbit Fire (1951, Jones)
  • Show Biz Bugs (1957, Freleng)
  • Knighty Knight Bugs (1958, Freleng)
  • What's Opera Doc? (1957, Jones)
• Disc 2:
  • Any Bonds Today? (1942, Clampett)
  • Excerpt from "My Dream is Yours" (1949)
  • How Bugs Bunny Won the West TV special (1978)
  • Bugs Bunny Wild World of Sports TV special (1989)
  • Invasion of the Bunny Snatchers (1992, Ford/Lennon)
  • Carrotblanca (1995, McCarthy)
  • Hare and Loathing in Las Vegas (2003 [unreleased], Kopp/Shin)

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Bugs-Bunny-Looney-Tunes-Comedy-Hour-Essential-Bugs-Bunny/14025

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisALM 

When I speak of Blu ray, I am talking about a genuine Blu ray treatment, a top quality release. If WB tried anything short of that, I don't think it would work. People wouldn't buy it.

 

It would feel less like a double dip if they started this hypothetical Blu ray release as soon as possible, not waiting until several hundred more Looney Tunes have been released on standard definition. They could, and should, continue to release standard definition in a variety collections for those not interested in owning all the 1000+ Looney Tunes. If WB continues to wait to go Blu ray, I think more and more people are likely to be content with the standard definition releases, and balk at the upgrade.

 

I agree with you though, I doubt it is going to happen. But, I can dream about it.

 

well it wouldn't have to end with cool cat, since the last of those, WB has snuck in an occasional Loony Tunes short, i have actuly seen box office bunny on the big screen, and as soon as it was over left, cant remember the movie it was with, wasnt intrested, but this year we have three new Wile E and RR cartoons, so its still going. Just not like we remember here take a look

As I see it this "Essential" set is aimed at the "casual collector" and not those who were purchasing the "Golden Collection" sets.  I'll not be picking this up as it feels too much like filler.

I would *love* to see the "Golden Collections" continue.  I'll take the 4 "Super Stars" disks as that's all it seems we'll get but I'd rather have them in a collection.  Currently I'm holding off to see if WB releases the 4 yearly SS disks as a "collectors set" the following year.

I'm one who did *not* like the Bosko toons, but I don't much care for early/experimental animation. Those should have been "bonus" toons spread over several disks/sets.  I also have never liked the "Merry Melodies" which consist of dancing/singing "stuff" (I very much dislike musicals in general) or the ones with then current stars in animated cameos.  When any of these would come on I would do something else until they went off, but they are part of the LT history and are on the sets so I'll take 'em to get what I do want. 

While not perfect, the GC sets were the best thing to happen to LT in a looooong time.  While I'd have really prefered a chronological release, if for no other reason than to mix it up a bit as any disk of a single character gets old fast, I understand the difficulties of just when to start.  I, for one, would not have picked up any of the B/W years as I feel that, overall, these are inferior to the later color toons.  I felt that way when I saw 'em as a kid and still feel that way.

I'm impatiently waiting for more Foghorn Leghorn who was treated very poorly in the GC sets.

Those contents are about what I expected. Very nice to have confirmation that the only classics here are double dips. Props to WB for staying the course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobO'Link 

 

I'm impatiently waiting for more Foghorn Leghorn who was treated very poorly in the GC sets.

A Foghorn Super Stars disc should be coming later this year.
 

Additionally,

The Bugs Bunny Show (1960) - specific episode not yet revealed was just added to Disk 2's contents. I may be interested if it is better quality than that horrid Tom and Jerry set recently released. We shall see.

Updated Link:     http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Bugs-Bunny-Looney-Tunes-Comedy-Hour-Essential-Bugs-Bunny/14025

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Moroughan 

Additionally,

 

The Bugs Bunny Show (1960) - specific episode not yet revealed was just added to Disk 2's contents. I may be interested if it is better quality than that horrid Tom and Jerry set recently released. We shall see.

 

Updated Link:     http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Bugs-Bunny-Looney-Tunes-Comedy-Hour-Essential-Bugs-Bunny/14025

That elevates the almost needless Disc 2 somewhat -- as long as it's not a double-dip from a Golden Collection or Sat AM Cartoons set. 

In fact, if they somehow reconstruct the Bugs Bunny Show that was an expanded version of Freleng's "Devil's Feud Cake", I might become Disc 2's biggest advocate!   

That one had "Roman Legion Hare", "Sahara Hare" - and one other an cannot recall.  I loved it as a kid and would love to see it again. 

In fact, why not a "Bugs Bunny Show" set?! 

I know, lots of restoration.  Maybe as a Warner Archives offering? 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tor1 

Quote:

In fact, why not a "Bugs Bunny Show" set?! 

 

I know, lots of restoration.  Maybe as a Warner Archives offering? 
 

I would be there for a Bugs Bunny Show release. There was some new bridging material between the cartoons that filled out the show. But, I'm not sure how much any of this survives.
 

That disc 2 is confusing. It's supposedly a disc full of bonus features, but some shorts and specials are listed as part of the main program while others are listed as bonus features. In my opinion the new featurette (and maybe also the clip from "My Dream is Yours") is really the only "bonus feature". How'd they decide which shorts and specials would be "bonus features" and which wouldn't?

Will this one be cropped like the single disc superstar releases?