WHV Announcement: The Essential Bugs Bunny

Three new to DVD, huh? Not too sure that's a smart move...

Seems kind of weird to have "The Essential Collection" and "Looney Tunes Super Stars" going at the same time.

At this rate, I'll have been dead for hundreds of years by the time Warner Brothers finishes bringing Looney Tunes to DVD.

I'll get this one. I have always said that I wanted a BUGS BUNNY COLLECTION. I really don't have any need for all the other cartoon characters, which is why I've never bought those other expensive sets in the past. Unfortunately, I wish this set was the COMPLETE BUGS BUNNY. Or, at least VOLUME ONE of a continuous series.   

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimJS 

Three new to DVD, huh? Not too sure that's a smart move...

 

 

I'm not sure I like the sound of this, mixing new material with previously released cartoons. C'mon WB, there are too many of these cartoons unreleased to start padding out new releases with the previously released cartoons.

I thought when the Golden Collections ended, this kind of thing (double dipping consumers) was not going to happen.

These kinds of sets are not aimed at collectors; that's what the upcoming Super Stars series is for. Any new-to-DVD shorts should debut for collectors, which may be the case here with the SS Bugs arriving first in August.

It would be nice to get some clarity, however, on what these three new titles are and if we should indeed expect to see them first with the Super Stars.

Well, this is annoying but not surprising. It figures they would put out yet another release for the casual customer and leave the real collector's behind.

I'm all for putting out these smaller releases but why do they have to go backward and re-release the same toons over again ? Why not pull together the remaining Bugs cartons that haven't been put out on DVD and make an entire release out of that ?  Seriously. Then you're serving both casual and hardcore fans.

I hope they are at least going to continue with "character sets" such as a Foghorn Leghorn set and hopefully a whole set with more Porky Pig, who stars in bazillions of different ones.

In the beginning, I would have preferred a chronological release or character based release of the Looney Tunes Collection. We did not get that, we got the Golden Collections. Once the Golden Collections started I would have preferred they would continue. That is not happening either. I don't want to end up double-dipping, triple-dipping, or whatever, to keep my collection going. The expense of that would eventually be far greater than just continuing with the Golden Collections. I thought I understood WB to say when the Golden Collections ended that the Looney Tunes would continue to be released in the future in another way, and there would be no double dipping.

So, what is happening here?

Once again, the upcoming single-disc Super Stars series will act as the continuation of unreleased, restored Looney Tunes. Once again, the Essential Bugs Bunny is not aimed at collectors.

Random double-dip sets like EBB, aimed at general consumers, help bring in additional revenue for the LTs, permitting - as Jerry Beck has frankly stated - the restoration of more unreleased cartoons for collectors. One hand is washing the other.

I personally hope they do more of these sets, and get many more unreleased cartoons restored and issued as a result.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveling Matt 

Once again, the upcoming single-disc Super Stars series will act as the continuation of unreleased, restored Looney Tunes. Once again, the Essential Bugs Bunny is not aimed at collectors.

 

Random double-dip sets like EBB, aimed at general consumers, help bring in additional revenue for the LTs, permitting - as Jerry Beck has frankly stated - the restoration of more unreleased cartoons for collectors. One hand is washing the other.

 

I personally hope they do more of these sets, and get many more unreleased cartoons restored and issued as a result.

I understand and agree with everything you are saying, except for one point.

Why put any previously unreleased toons on the consumer targeted set and leave them off the collector targeted set? That is backwards to me.
 

We don't know that's the case. The contents for EBB aren't out yet, so we can't compare. But the three in question could easily be among the new fifteen debuting first in August.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveling Matt 

We don't know that's the case. The contents for EBB aren't out yet, so we can't compare. But the three in question could easily be among the new fifteen debuting first in August.

The EBB set is being released on October 12, approximately two months after the other two sets (Bugs and Daffy). These three toons will not be new to DVD in October if they have already been released on either of the other two sets in August.
 

The point of reference could be the fact sheet; as of its publishing, those three are unreleased. It's meant for retailers, after all, not us.

I'm not going to fret until the contents of EBB are revealed and we have the details.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveling Matt 

The point of reference could be the fact sheet; as of its publishing, those three are unreleased. It's meant for retailers, after all, not us.

Good point, one I hadn't thought of.

WB has done an excellent job with the Golden Collections, imho, and I just want to keep collecting these cartoons without having to double dip. I hope you are right. Time will tell.

By now, shouldn’t someone have a list of the shorts contained in this set? 

Why tell us everything but THAT important tidbit? 

How about a "Complete Bugs Bunny" set containing all of the shorts he's appeared in ? That would at least please some collector's. Of course you still have your double dipping problem.

Of all the classic "short subjects" produced in the old "studio" days of Hollywood -- which most people remember watching on television as children -- the way Looney Tunes have been treated on DVD is the most disappointing.

The two top "live" comedy short subjects, "Our Gang/The Little Rascals" (the Hal Roach sound years) and "The Three Stooges," have both been presented in their entirely and in chronological order.

Among cartoons, the same can be said for Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Silly Symphonies, Droopy, most of Tom and Jerry, Popeye from the Fleishcer years, Woody Woodpecker, and maybe some others I'm forgetting.

But Looney Tunes -- which might be the best of all -- were never released in any kind of sensible, orderly way.

They really blew it.  The Complete Looney Tunes, with two or three years to a set -- maybe not starting until the Porky Pig years -- would have been a phenomenal set.

Now that it looks like no one will ever even begin to have a complete set of Looney Tunes without doing some serious double dipping, things are getting worse instead of better.

According to Wikipedia, there were 1,003 shorts released from the 1930s through the 1960s. Far more than any of those other series you list. The chances of them making it through all of them in chronological order, with the associated costs of remastering each film, are remarkably slim. They might have possibly ended such a series before even reaching the color films (as it seems they have with Popeye for the time being).

It does feel a bit disappointing that we don’t have a complete collection, especially when comparing them to other series that do, but it’s tough to put the blame on anything other than the sheer volume of the library. Personally, I’m very happy WB went the way they did with the Golden Collections. All the best LTs are out and, considering the current state of home video, it seems an even smarter move in retrospect.

I would have preferred the replacement series (Super Stars) focus even more sharply on the collector, perhaps continuing the GC model with two discs instead of four. Character-themed discs could balance out one-shot/miscellanous discs as doubles (as appealing as character singles may be, I think they’ll have to be creative in marketing one-shot/miscellaneous singles). They could continue releasing the remaining cartoons with, as they did before, popularity in mind until the well runs dry.

A chronological order would have been great. Then we could have used the Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies book by Jerry Beck and Will Friedwald as a guide to the cartoons in the sets. I sometimes have trouble finding a particular cartoon I want over the six different Golden Collections.

I used to look forward to the Golden Collections release, because we were at least getting the Looney Tunes, with nice restorations, on DVD. The number of cartoons released was adding up and things were looking positive for getting through this library of cartoons.

Then the bottom fell out and nothing. Now, we are headed in another direction. There was some thought about Blu ray releases for Looney Tunes. I don't get the impression that WB knows where they are headed with this.

I concede that "What's Opera, Doc?" is a great cartoon, even if it is not one of my favorites. 

Still, I have to ask how many times I am going to be forced to purchase "What's Opera, Doc?" in a collection just to get another cartoon or 2 that I do not already have.

I remember when the Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies were released on VHS that most of the same cartoons kept being released under different titles.   "What's Opera, Doc" was released on more than one VHS title. 

It was the same story with laserdisc.

DVD was around for a long time before ANY of these cartoons were released.  The Golden Collections were not perfect but at least there was not repetition of the same cartoons in every set.

I have more versions of "What's Opera, Doc?" than I know what to do with.  Even though it is a great cartoon, I honestly do not care if I ever see "What's Opera, Doc?" again in my lifetime.  In the meantime, there is a long list of really terrific Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies that have never been released on VHS, laser, or DVD (or Blu-ray).

I was born in 1968 at which point the great Warner Brothers cartoons had ceased production.  I am now 42 years old and I despair that a complete set of these classic cartoons will be released even in my lifetime, much less the lifetime of anyone who was around to see these cartoons in their heyday in theatrical release.

Sony eventually stopped irritating fans of the 3 Stooges and finally got it right by releasing a complete set in chronological order.  I have hoped for years that Warner Brothers will see the error of its ways and release these classics in some manner that will allow fans to obtain a complete set.  It is disappointing and frustrating for fans and consumers who want to see these great unreleased cartoons and do not have the opportunity.

Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies deserve a complete chronological release and I despair that it will ever happen.

Talked to someone "who should know" and was informed that three early Bugs toons were restored for this collection but were subsequently removed from the collection. This person admitted that HOW BUGS BUNNY WON THE WEST, BUGS BUNNY'S WILD WORLD OF SPORTS and HARE AND LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS might be what the marketing literature is referencing.

Don't forget that the plan (as we've heard it from Jerry Beck) is to restore and release four single-disc Super Stars a year, with fifteen cartoons each. That's the equivalent of one annual Golden Collection.

Beck has stated that getting them all restored and released is his number one home video goal, and he's the one who can conceivably get WB to do it.

I'm much more concerned about not getting the remaining classic animation through the Walt Disney Treasures line. With so little left to release, that's the tougher pill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveling Matt 

According to Wikipedia, there were 1,003 shorts released from the 1930s through the 1960s. Far more than any of those other series you list. The chances of them making it through all of them in chronological order, with the associated costs of remastering each film, are remarkably slim. They might have possibly ended such a series before even reaching the color films (as it seems they have with Popeye for the time being).

 

I don't think it makes any difference that there were 1,003 of them.  In terms of running time, that's approximately the equivalent of a TV series that had 250 episodes.  To name one example, because it's coming out tomorrow, "Leave It to Beaver" had 234 episodes, and the entire series is coming out, fully restored, at a retail price of $200.

I believe they could have done The Complete Looney Tunes in maybe ten sets - 100 six-to-seven minute cartoons is the equivalent of a TV season with about 25 half-hour episodes - hardly a big deal!

I insist that they really blew this one.  If nothing else, they certainly should have released the 1940s and 1950s in their entirety (and I do mean entirety, including the politically incorrect ones.)  It would have gone down in DVD history as one of the greatest sets of all time.

1,003 sounds impressive, but these are cartoon shorts. We're talking about things that run 6-10 minutes. Say 8 minutes is average. That's just a bit over 130 hours of material. Doesn't sound impossible to me.

We've gotten over 140 hours of Little House on the Prairie, 60 or so hours of Get Smart on day 1, and many other examples.

It's just a number. In terms of quantity I don't see why it's impossible. Something like Gunsmoke, Bonanza, My Three Sons, Ozzie & Harriet, etc., in their entirety seems much more daunting then Merrie Melodies/Looney Tunes.

If restoration is what is keeping it away, release it unrestored. I want the best looking/most complete prints available, it doesn't necessarily require expensive restoration if that's what is keeping it away.

Just the best available will suit me just fine.

Edit - And shoot, I didn't read the last post and was thinking this up in my head earlier after reading Traveling Matt's post earlier. Posted this before reading any new messages. Guess I'm in full agreement with Joe.

This is not apples to apples with a TV series due to the restoration costs, which have been reported as very high, for the Looney Tunes.

While I can see both sides of this argument (Best of vs chronological),  I personally liked the "Best of" because of the variety and the fact we were getting the better 'toons rather than having to sit through some duds which would invariably slow down a strict year by year release.  From a marketing perspective, mixing it up makes a lot more sense since it increases the target audience.  A strict chrono release, especially for the B&W years, would only appeal to a limited number of folks.

Everyone seems to have their own “best version” of how Looney Tunes should have been handled on DVD.  And, not surprisingly among this population, there is a great deal of support for “Chronological” (I’d have liked it myself!) However, unlike other series with successful chronological releases, here is the flaw in releasing “Chronological Looney Tunes”…

Recall that people complained about the space devoted to Bosko in Golden Collection Volume Six, so why would they buy a “first set” that would have been dominated by him? And, if they didn’t start that way, it wouldn’t BE a “Chronological” set – and, if they didn’t include Bosko and other productions of the era, it wouldn’t be complete.  

Also, I doubt too many folks would be around for the Daffy/Speedy, Cool Cat, and Merlin the Magic Mouse laden sets near the end.  (Yes, maybe WE would, but not the general public!)

The reason that “Chronological” works for Popeye, Woody Woodpecker, Donald Duck, and The Three Stooges (all of which I have and enjoy) is that they are JUST Popeye, Woody Woodpecker (with only a small amount of better Lantz shorts thrown in), Donald Duck, and The Three Stooges… and not ALL Fleischer, Lantz, Disney, and Columbia Short Subjects as a whole. In other words, “Chronological” is good, IF it’s tightly focused on exactly what you want – and not so good if it encompasses what you don’t.  

If there were Chronological Bugs, Daffy, and Porky sets, THAT would be more akin to the other sets mentioned… but we would also have missed out on a lot of other great stuff. Consider, also, that SOME series (Pepe, Speedy, even Road Runner) are too repetitious for exclusively focused chronological release, and others (Sam Sheepdog, Ralph Phillips, Honey-Mousers, etc.) are too short-running to make it worthwhile. 

Warner was in a no-win situation on how to package Looney Tunes and I think they did it well in the Golden Collections (Especially with the wealth of extras included!) – but, if they had it all to do over again, this is how they should have done it. 

Two discs per set… Chronological within each disc… with a “less popular year” and a “more popular year” packaged together. This is to say 1930-1931 with 1948, or 1952 with 1966. 

Several years worth of this type of releases would give everyone what they want – a “Chronological” packaging of popular toons and lesser toons… and we’d all keep coming back for more! 

Too bad this couldn’t be accomplished now without extensive double dipping… and that would make many of us who bought those expensive Golden Collection sets very unhappy! 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tor1 

 

 

Warner was in a no-win situation on how to package Looney Tunes and I think they did it well in the Golden Collections (Especially with the wealth of extras included!) – but, if they had it all to do over again, this is how they should have done it. 

 

Two discs per set… Chronological within each disc… with a “less popular year” and a “more popular year” packaged together. This is to say 1930-1931 with 1948, or 1952 with 1966. 

 

Several years worth of this type of releases would give everyone what they want – a “Chronological” packaging of popular toons and lesser toons… and we’d all keep coming back for more! 

 

Too bad this couldn’t be accomplished now without extensive double dipping… and that would make many of us who bought those expensive Golden Collection sets very unhappy! 

I agree, WB would not be able to please everybody, but your suggestion above shows there are creative ways to get around the less popular years. And they could have still released Spotlight Collections to the casual fan, or character based collections, or whatever, to increase their return on investment.

But we are at a stage where multiple Golden Collections sets have been released and I am concerned if WB releases future sets that force consumers into extensive double dipping, consumers will balk and Looney Tunes on DVD will be history. I do not want to see that happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisALM 

I agree, WB would not be able to please everybody, but your suggestion above shows there are creative ways to get around the less popular years. And they could have still released Spotlight Collections to the casual fan, or character based collections, or whatever, to increase their return on investment.

 

But we are at a stage where multiple Golden Collections sets have been released and I am concerned if WB releases future sets that force consumers into extensive double dipping, consumers will balk and Looney Tunes on DVD will be history. I do not want to see that happen.

When being critical of Warner on its handling of Looney Tunes on DVD, as we (perhaps rightly) tend to do, let’s not loose sight of this perspective.

The first Looney Tunes Golden Collection was released in 2003, and probably conceived long before that.  At the time, there were no rules on how to best package properties on DVD.

STAR TREK was still being offered in two-episode packages, as in the VHS days.  THE FLINTSTONES appeared in a sort of “anthology” collection (“Cartoon Crack-Ups” – which includes the contents of an ENTIRE Huckleberry Hound Show that is still otherwise unavailable on DVD!) before FLINTSTONES Season Sets began. 

And, from this perspective, the Looney Tunes Golden Collection may have been the most ambitious packaging of a popular property of the “early DVD-era”.  Had it continued annually, I think most of us hardcore fans would have nothing to grouse about, except maybe the price – which was well worth it for what we were getting, 

The real issue is, now that the Golden Collections have stopped, how does Warner CONTINUE in a way that pleases us?  When all is said and done, I suspect their ultimate solution will be less than pleasing to us, considering their constant repackaging of Tom and Jerry and Scooby Doo Where Are You into smaller, redundant chunks. 

We've had this discussion before, and there's no reason that they would have had to start at the beginning with Bosko.

In fact, there's no reason they ever had to do Bosko.

They could have called it The Complete Classic Looney Tunes, or something, and started in 1935, when Porky Pig made his debut.  (For example, "The Little Rascals" started with the sound era, skipping many years of silents.)

I believe any sets with the faces of Porky, Bugs, Daffy, etc. staring out at customers -- with the words Complete Looney Tunes on the box -- would have been almost guaranteed best sellers.

Warners had more great cartoon characters than any other studio.  If they did "character" sets, they'd need to do Bugs, Porky, Daffy, Tweety and Road Runner for sure -- and there are many fans of Foghorn, Pepe LePew and Speedy Gonzales.

Why bother with all of that, when every set would have many (if not most) of the characters, and make everyone happy?  (I for one would be loath to plunk down money for a Pepe LePew set -- you've seen one, you've seen 'em all -- just to be a completist.)

Considering the great success Sony has had with the Complete Three Stooges, after years of random releases, it seems to me a total no-brainer that a Complete Classic Looney Tunes, 1935-1964, would have been a best seller.

They blew it!