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Again, when is the logoff/on problem going to be solved

post #1 of 49
6/9/10 at 9:16am
Thread Starter 

2 weeks ago, I posted a similar named thread, Yesterday at circa 22:14  I was again logged out while on line!!!   Al I mentioned earlier, I don't thgink Huddler-group reads earlier posts. It was written they do - but evidently they might but they don't read it very well. I also get the impression that the Huddler-group don't care what HTF tyypes write - Huddler knows better. The problem here is not the 2 week limit  (or month as some have suggested) or not at allö (like before). Since it is clear that Huddler does not use this forum! As posted by people which according  to Huddler, have been read, people have complained that they are in the process of posting and then they discover they can't because they are not logged on- they have to  retype everything AGAIN! I have also written in a post (where Huddler claims to have read) that people should NOT be logged off if they are already logged it. As a very experienced programmer (my first computer was UNIVAC I), this can be done very easy. Unless people remain on for 24 hours or longer, people will log off by deleting the window.the next time they log on AND their "two weeks" was expired, then they must log on with the password.

 

 

Another program area that even isn't listed - 2 weeks ago it was mentioned and it was stated that "it was forgotten" and it will be added to the list. So far it hasn't. The error was that the times in the blue "Recent discussions" box. It is currently Pacific time NOT the local time. This was also mentioned by others in post that "have been read". This was also mentioned to Kyle Harmon. This bug alone is not very important per say BUT it is very important because it was caused by an update! So many times there are more errors AFTER an update. It is very important to find out why. If the matter is looked at months or more (Huddler speed), the programmers will not remember what was exactly done. Some time ago, I mentioned that in programming, there will be errors that cause a 2nd error which cause a 3rd error etc etc. The 3rd error might be seen and corrected but not the others.  For this reason errors caused by updates should be looked at ASAP and not months later. This was also written earlier in a post which according to Huddler "has been read".

 

I get the impression that when something "will be looked at and evaluated" that it is essentually a delaying/footdragging tactic which means it has been put in the circular file. An example of this is the much requested issue of the location of the "bread crumbs" at the bottom. Moving it to just above the reply box which has to be a very easy job. But Huddler stated it is not so easy and besides we wont to WAIT for something else is done - another footdragging - to out it in other words, we want to wait until people forget about it!

 

Another area is the infamous "Drop down" menu which many other forums use and many people of HTF have requested it come back but Huddler still has his head in the ground - he knows better than the people who user the forum.

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post #2 of 49
6/9/10 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumnernor View Post

2 weeks ago, I posted a similar named thread, Yesterday at circa 22:14  I was again logged out while on line!!!


 

Me too.  I wasn't actually posting at the time, but I was surfing the forum and found that as I tried to enter the moderator's forum that I was not allowed because--even though my name was still present at the top of the forum--I had actually been logged off and had to log back in before continuing.    I thought someone had just "changed the locks." 

 

 

 

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post #3 of 49
6/9/10 at 1:46pm

And it just happened again...albeit on a different PC.  This time I was trying to make a post and was told I needed to join the HTF in order to do so. 

 

Something tells me I will be going through this a third time (possibly tonight) on the third PC I use on a regular basis. 

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post #4 of 49
6/9/10 at 3:35pm

This login issue has got to get fixed.  There is no reason to log out visitors this quickly.   Financial data is not at risk here.  HTF does not traffic in SSNs. 

 

In my opinion, it makes HTF look uninviting to regular posters.  I know that's not the intent, but perceptions can be damaging.  What other forums do is irrelevant here (virtually all of the others I use do not log people out regularly); HTF is a respected enough "brand" that they should be able to react to the membership's desires without regard to what the other guys are doing.

 

I know others will disagree, and that's fine.  Reasonable people can disagree on this.  However judging from the consistent complaints about this, it is clear that this needs to be fixed ASAP.

 

This is a great forum; let's not leave a bad taste by these unnecessary conveniences.


Edited by Steve...O - 6/9/10 at 7:37pm
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post #5 of 49
6/11/10 at 12:45am

We are mulling over several ideas to replace the two week cookie time.  I'll have an update/more information on Monday or Tuesday of next week with what we are planning.

 

 

Quote:
 Another program area that even isn't listed - 2 weeks ago it was mentioned and it was stated that "it was forgotten" and it will be added to the list. So far it hasn't. The error was that the times in the blue "Recent discussions" box. It is currently Pacific time NOT the local time. This was also mentioned by others in post that "have been read". This was also mentioned to Kyle Harmon. This bug alone is not very important per say BUT it is very important because it was caused by an update! So many times there are more errors AFTER an update. It is very important to find out why. If the matter is looked at months or more (Huddler speed), the programmers will not remember what was exactly done. Some time ago, I mentioned that in programming, there will be errors that cause a 2nd error which cause a 3rd error etc etc. The 3rd error might be seen and corrected but not the others.  For this reason errors caused by updates should be looked at ASAP and not months later. This was also written earlier in a post which according to Huddler "has been read".

The issue was never forgotten.....I had forgotten to list the issue on our bug list when I wrote that.  I added it to the list immediately after I wrote that:

 

 

Capture.JPG

 

I understand that the timestamps in the blue box are a big frustration for you.  For better or worse, Ron Parker and I have to prioritize new features and fixes.  This particular one was given a lower priority than the things we have been working on.  It will most likely (but I am not promising) be fixed in 2.13 which is approx three weeks away.  It might change from listing a time zone to just reading "XX minutes ago"

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post #6 of 49
6/15/10 at 2:29pm

There will be a two part solution to the two week log out problem.  Good news is its coming soon, bad news is looking at when your two week cycle started it will happen to you again before the fix.  Starting in release 2.13 the cookie timer will be extended from 14 to 60 days.  Either in that same release (or before the 60 days is up) there will be another fix loaded to make sure at the 60 day mark that you are only logged out when your forum status is inactive, so you won't be logged out in the middle of posting.  Please note that when the change is made you may still have a two week cookie, so it could happen to you once more after the change is made.  You could manually log out and log back in after the change to set a new cookie and keep this from happening.  I provide more details about that after the fix is in place.

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post #7 of 49
6/15/10 at 2:36pm

There is another active thread on this topic, so I am coping the latest post from that thread and moving this one to the archive:

There will be a two part solution to the two week log out problem.  Good news is its coming soon, bad news is looking at when your two week cycle started it will happen to you again before the fix.  Starting in release 2.13 the cookie timer will be extended from 14 to 60 days.  Either in that same release (or before the 60 days is up) there will be another fix loaded to make sure at the 60 day mark that you are only logged out when your forum status is inactive, so you won't be logged out in the middle of posting.  Please note that when the change is made you may still have a two week cookie, so it could happen to you once more after the change is made.  You could manually log out and log back in after the change to set a new cookie and keep this from happening.  I provide more details about that after the fix is in place.

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post #8 of 49
6/15/10 at 2:37pm

.

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post #9 of 49
6/15/10 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich View Post

...there will be another fix loaded to make sure at the 60 day mark that you are only logged out when your forum status is inactive, so you won't be logged out in the middle of posting. 

 

    

 

 

 

 


 

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post #10 of 49
6/15/10 at 4:47pm

While 60 days is certainly better than 14, I still don't understand why we have to be logged out at all.  Can someone please explain WHY it is so important that we have to log back in every X number of days.  It's pointless and frustrating.  This is a Home Theater Forum for crying out loud, not Citibank.

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post #11 of 49
6/15/10 at 5:34pm

Bryan, you forget that HTF is at Huddler's mercy on this one.  If they DON'T put one of these silly logouts in Huddler will NEVER get the contract for CitibankEnthusiastForum.com

 

Sam

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post #12 of 49
6/15/10 at 6:50pm

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post #13 of 49
6/16/10 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan X View Post

While 60 days is certainly better than 14, I still don't understand why we have to be logged out at all.  Can someone please explain WHY it is so important that we have to log back in every X number of days.  It's pointless and frustrating.  This is a Home Theater Forum for crying out loud, not Citibank.


We've been asking for such an explanation since this issue became a hot topic. We keep getting the brush-off. The last response I saw from a Huddler rep was just something like, "is logging in every 14 days really that bad?" Yes, it is, when it's apparently inconvenience just for the sake of being inconvenient (as there's no other logical explanation to date).

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post #14 of 49
6/17/10 at 7:01am
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich View Post
I understand that the timestamps in the blue box are a big frustration for you.


You missunderstand my point. My point is that if there are NEW errors as a results of an update such as with the timestamps, these errors should be corrected immediately not months later. There may be several errors of which only the highest level error is seen. Also the changes in the update are fresh in the minds of the progarmmer.

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post #15 of 49
6/17/10 at 10:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumnernor View Post

You missunderstand my point. My point is that if there are NEW errors as a results of an update such as with the timestamps, these errors should be corrected immediately not months later. There may be several errors of which only the highest level error is seen. Also the changes in the update are fresh in the minds of the progarmmer.

Yes I did misunderstand your point, thanks for clarifying.  Ideally thats what we like to do.  In the case of this particular bug it was investigated as soon as it was reported.  It is a side effect of a change made to the "blue box" at the bottom of the page for performance reasons.  The "fix" is to change the timestamps to XX minutes ago instead of a particular time zone time stamp.  We have just made that "fix" a lower priority than other features we want to roll out, or other bugs we want to squash more like the "log you out while you are trying to post bug".

 

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post #16 of 49
6/17/10 at 10:35pm



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm R View Post

We've been asking for such an explanation since this issue became a hot topic. We keep getting the brush-off. The last response I saw from a Huddler rep was just something like, "is logging in every 14 days really that bad?" Yes, it is, when it's apparently inconvenience just for the sake of being inconvenient (as there's no other logical explanation to date).


Malcolm, not trying to give you the brush off.  A few weeks ago we had that conversation in this area, you may have missed it and even if you hadn't you may not agree with it.  Plain and simple is for security purposes--to occasionally verify that you are you and protect your account.  Bryan is right when he says this "....isn't Citibank" and that is why we are rolling it back from 14 to 60 days.  It might not be a big deal to you, but we have had instances in the past where some accounts have been "compromised" and posts were made that caused problems with and for the account holder.  Once the change is in place we feel asking you to re-login every 60 days or approximately 6 times per year is a reasonable solution to help secure your account.  The 14 day period was overkill, and getting logged out while you are still active was an incredibly annoying bug.  That is why it is being changed.
 

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post #17 of 49
6/18/10 at 10:38pm

If "security" is the real reason, I think a better solution would be forcing members to change their passwords...say at least once a year (my bank forces me to do this at least twice a year; at my job we're forced to change every 90 days).

 

I'd imagine most HTF members have been using the same password since the day they joined.

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post #18 of 49
6/19/10 at 8:13am



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm R View Post

If "security" is the real reason, I think a better solution would be forcing members to change their passwords...say at least once a year (my bank forces me to do this at least twice a year; at my job we're forced to change every 90 days).

 

I'd imagine most HTF members have been using the same password since the day they joined.


 

A good idea, but there are at least a few problems with that off of the top of my head:

  1. If you are logged in on more than one machine and we are using a "logged in forever" cookie, you will still stay logged in on all of the computers even if you change you password, making the password change pretty pointless.  We would have to use a shorter login time to make that work.
  2. Overall we don't get that many complaints about the two week logout, and those we do get would be further minimized if it didn't log you out when you were active, but I think complaints would go through the roof if we did this.
  3. It would be an administrative headache to deal with forgotten passwords even though the process is fairly automated.
  4. Requiring frequent password changes could encourage people to use simpler passwords.
  5. Sam Posten would find a deeper, nefarious purpose behind the change

 

The goal is to take a minimally invasive common sense approach to this, and a 60 day cookie seems to be a good way. 


 

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post #19 of 49
6/19/10 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich View PostSam Posten would find a deeper, nefarious purpose behind the change


Actually, Sam Posten hasnt changed his password to HTF since the day he joined in 1997.  That's how concerned I am with forum security.

 

I know you were joking, but there you are....

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post #20 of 49
6/19/10 at 2:57pm

And then there's people like who HATE changing passwords! 

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post #21 of 49
6/19/10 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon View Post

And then there's people like who HATE changing passwords! 



See #2 on my list

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post #22 of 49
6/19/10 at 4:52pm

I get SO irate about constantly changing passwords that I sometimes can't see the forest for the trees...  

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post #23 of 49
6/20/10 at 10:33am

Thank you to the team for changing this to a 60 day timeframe.   It is appreciated and appears to be a reasonable compromise to this issue if log-offs are to be required.

 

I agree with the others that password changes are not a good idea here.  There really isn't anything sensitive on HTF that requires that level of security.  Anyone who has had to deal with workplace related password changes (due to systems that DO have sensitive data) knows what a major pain this is especially when condidtions are put in place prohibiting reuse of passwords, limits on which letter/alpha combinations can be used, etc.

 

As for the prior cases where accounts were compromised, I would suspect these are cases where members used a shared computer. As unfortunate as these cases may be, there is no real risk (certainly not financial) to the user.

 

Again, thanks for the change.

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post #24 of 49
6/20/10 at 10:59pm

 

Quote:
 Thank you to the team for changing this to a 60 day timeframe.   It is appreciated and appears to be a reasonable compromise to this issue if log-offs are to be required.

 Thanks for your comments Steve.  Just a reminder to everyone that you will get hit by the two week login timer one or two more times depending on when your cookie was set.  The change to 60 days is in our next release which is 1.5 to 2 weeks out.

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post #25 of 49
7/29/10 at 10:49pm

OK there were some technical challenges related to server load, so I apologize for the delay, but the cookie was set to 60 days this afternoon.  Having said that most of us still have the two week cookie, so we will be hit with the forced log out one more time while possibly active.  Alternatively you could log out, remove any HTF cookies and log back in to get a new 60 day cookie.  Thanks for your patience on this.

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post #26 of 49
8/11/10 at 11:36am

The timestamp issue in the blue box at the bottom of the page has been fixed as well.

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post #27 of 49
8/14/10 at 8:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich View Post

The timestamp issue in the blue box at the bottom of the page has been fixed as well.

Not really "fixed" but changed. It seems like months ago I stated , the importance was NOT the error itself but what causes the change as a results of an update. THAT is more important then "correcting" an error. One must learn from mistakes. Obviously some people don't care!
 

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post #28 of 49
8/14/10 at 4:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumnernor View Post



Not really "fixed" but changed. It seems like months ago I stated , the importance was NOT the error itself but what causes the change as a results of an update. THAT is more important then "correcting" an error. One must learn from mistakes. Obviously some people don't care!
 



It is a fix.  As I previously explained, the original change that upset you was intentional--present the same cached blue box to everyone to help speed site performance which was an issue at the time.  The downside was the way it was done the times were wrong for any members not on the West Coast of the US.  This update "fixes" that.  We still have the same cached box presented to all users, but with a timestamp that is relevent to everyone regardless of their time zone.

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post #29 of 49
8/14/10 at 4:20pm

To expand on Adam's comments:

 

  1. In post #8 above, it was already noted that the time-stamp issue "was investigated as soon as it was reported".
  2. An explanation for the problem was provided at that time, June 18, 2010, nearly two months ago.
  3. It was also noted at the time that the fix for the problem had been assigned a lower priority than another issue (the log-off problem) about which Mr. Sumnernor has complained repeatedly.
  4. Having been promptly investigated and appropriately prioritized, the fix has now been implemented -- after addressing the log-off issue that has so troubled Mr. Sumnernor.

 

The above would seem to be a complete and adequate response to the issues raised by Mr. Sumnernor. But, as he might say: 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumnernor View Post

 

Obviously some people don't care!
 


Edited by Michael Reuben - 8/14/10 at 6:19pm
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post #30 of 49
8/18/10 at 1:20pm
Thread Starter 

This was an ERROR after an update a long time ago. It noticed 1st by Mike Frezon and very shortly thereafter by me. My complaint was NOT that time was wrong but how was the error caused??   It should have the same display (as before)  as by clicking "new posts. The cause of the error still is not found.

 

 

Also why did I have to login today (Aug 18)  after  having logged in on August 4th. I though it would expire 5 or 6 months. As it is the current cookie will expire on Sept 1, 2010?????????


Edited by Sumnernor - 8/20/10 at 2:26pm
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