Gotta hand it to Google, they put a pretty serious flanking move on Apple today (1 Viewer)

And Giz agrees.

http://gizmodo.com/5543794/


This is just one skirmish in a long history tho, and EVERYTHING announced today is lacking polish, but I think it was good for a real competitor to show up and say 'we think there is a better way' and have a plan for doing it. Unlike what Microsoft has been doing lately.


Competition is GOOD!


This is a bit hyperbolic tho:

http://mashable.com/2010/05/20/froyo-screws-apple/

I agree about the need for competition. I thought Apple TV had some potential as an all-in-one media hub, but they never delivered on the goods for me. I have large audio, video and picture libraries and the Apple TV's small HD and weak processor was always a handicap. I needed more of a Mac Mini type of power (and the high-end Mini at that) but then I would have had to use Front Row as an interface (which I dislike due to its very limiting nature).

Totally totally agreed. WWDC will be quite revealing on this front. Will Apple come back this year having had something skunkworks to take ATV to the next level and that's why Google had to rush out GoogleTV this week before all the parts are gelled together, or will it remain a hobby or will the hobby languish even worse?


10.7 is not likely to even be whispered

iPhone OS 4.0 is very much a known quality now, there may be a few surprises but devs have a thorough understanding and are ready for launch

The new iPhone hardware is not enough to base a keynote around

Pro Apps and iLife refreshes are pretty obviously going to get a refresh, iTunes live is likely to be a big part of it, and Mobile Me refresh too.


So the question is can Apple transform their strategy to something bigger to compete, will they keep it a niche, or let it fall to the wayside?

Interesting times indeed.

Rut roh, suddently I find myself not just laughing along with fake steve but actually agreeing with him...

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/techtonicshifts/archive/2010/05/20/sayonara-iphone-why-i-m-switching-to-android.aspx

I do want to draw a line between competition and Google's point of "openness" as a criticism of Apple.


I do want competition to bring out the best products for the consumer. But I don't equate that with "openness". We already have the most open system available: Windows platform. And for me, products based on that have nearly always paled in comparison with Apple's closed architecture products. I think Google's attempt to demonize Apple's business model, and characterizing Jobs as a "Howard Hughes" type figure is at best misleading, and at worst shows a total ignorance of history. To equate Jobs to Hughes, especially at the end of Howard's life (which is Google's point) is really low.


It's clear that Apple is starting to get a bit restrictive based on the fact that they've got a big market share. But the reason they got that market share wasn't by being open, it was by putting out great products. So I applaud Google (and anyone else) putting out worthy devices to up the competition, but I don't think it needs to devolve into this pissing contest that its basically on the verge of becoming.

Interesting perspective.


Couple things Gruber links to that make a lot of points:

http://kara.allthingsd.com/20100521/viral-video-googles-laughable-but-not-funny-apple-tantrum/?mod=ATD_rss


http://daringfireball.net/2010/05/post_io_thoughts


Two immediate thoughts:

-I worry about Android fragmentation

-Vic Gundotra is fast tracking to be a superstar

See the whole keynote here:

Android

http://www.youtube.com/googledevelopers#p/c/CF01A789E62F2454/0/IY3U2GXhz44

Google TV:

http://www.youtube.com/googledevelopers#p/a/u/1/ASZbArr7vdI

Originally Posted by Carlo Medina It's clear that Apple is starting to get a bit restrictive based on the fact that they've got a big market share.

Click to expand...

Nope. Apple's restrictive because that's always been their business model. It's not "starting".


The backlash to the pro-Apple zealotry is just a natural progression, because the "Apple fanboiz" think Apple can do no wrong and anyone who tries to compete with them is automatically inferior. The smugness is appalling. Go to a site like engadget and read the comments on Apple stories and stories about their competitors and you'll see what I mean.

Lots of thoughts. I've been busy dealing with phone conferences and reading on all the releases while reviewing. Let me say: gizmodo and others significantly misunderstand the implications of Google's Froyo right now, and they really don't quite grasp GoogleTV... I shouldn't say "don't quite grasp" as much as: are buggeringly wrong.

I'll try to post tomorrow morning, too tired.

Pretty sweeping generalization there. I'm part of several big "Mac/Apple" groups, filled with people who are big fans of the company, and there are no shortage of criticisms regarding some of Apple's decisions on a fairly regular basis, for both hardware and software. In fact, some of the harshest Apple critics I've read are the ones who own tons of Apple products.


It doesn't change the fact that their OS is more stable than Windows (just read Steam's latest statement on that). Or the fact that the iPod blew away just about any other MP3 player out there during its heyday.


Apple can be applauded for when they do things well, and criticized for when they don't, without having to call people names like "fanboiz" to try and minimize opposing viewpoints. I can honestly say that I haven't run into anyone you've described below, for nearly any electronic company or product, not just Apple.


Just my $.02.

Originally Posted by nolesrule The backlash to the pro-Apple zealotry is just a natural progression, because the "Apple fanboiz" think Apple can do no wrong and anyone who tries to compete with them is automatically inferior. The smugness is appalling. Go to a site like engadget and read the comments on Apple stories and stories about their competitors and you'll see what I mean.

Click to expand...

Ok, had a night to sleep and more time to right my responses:


Let's start with GoogleTV:


GoogleTV is an interesting concept. An inbuilt, embedded OS for TVs and media boxes designed to allow easier network based streaming of video content. The concept is pretty solid, and the way it is being done is also, solid. GoogleTV also detects incoming ATSC signal as well as streamed content if provided and offers linkage within the device to web based content of a similar nature at the touch of a button. Needless to say, this is cool. It's a cool feature. It's a neat idea for TVs to bundle in. It is absolutely not even remotely a challenger to AppleTV, Microsoft MediaCenter, Microsoft MediaRoom, Sage, or any other Media based product. In fact, those that lump it into that category are expecting it to do several things that it just doesn't do.


In regards to the Media Center components, everyone wants to square it off against AppleTV.. but I'll make my case here for each alternative


Here goes:


Media Center Options A MS MediaCenter MS MediaRoom GoogleTV AppleTV UPNP DLNA PS3 UPNP XBOX BDi Standard Records TV YES YES* NO N? N N N N Plays H264 YES YES Y* (limited BR) Y (limited BR) Y Y Y* (TC) Y CableCard Support YES YES YES N N N N N Supports MultiAudio Decoding YES YES NO Y* (Some) N Y Y Y Webbased integration YES YES YES LOCKED N Y N Y Supports DRM Management/Storage YES YES NO NO N N N Y Data Storage YES YES NO YES N * (PUR) * (PUR/EXT) N
Here's the deal: GoogleTV allows for web integration of a TV and streaming content to a TV. It doesn't provide for any storage, management, or anything that most of us equate with a media or HTPC, no matter what the standard.


Ie, for a lot of people who think of a "Media Product" they think of an interface that allows for navigation. GoogleTV reallly doesn't provide anything like that.


In comparison, MediaRoom and MediaCenter look a bit more like:





Which is kind of the goal a lot of people are after. AppleTV does theirs differently, but it is also an organization tool for your media. GoogleTV is an online connector to online content without a real storage management system and no DRM access.


As far as I'm concerned (sorry, Apple, but there are other products on an Apple that do this, like Sage type stuff) but AppleTV can't really be compared either, because although it's a media management system, it's more akin to say... an XBOX or a PS3 as far as a living room placement. All three are locked down into the formats of media they will play without a transcoding device in the middle, they don't act as a DVR or record TV, and they won't archive up native content or provide a way to offlload data to extra devices as extenders. GoogleTV is in the end, a leverage product. It's designed to give TV manufacturers a selling point, and push online content. But let's not kid: first run, first production media and titles are not rushing to non-DRM, non-content protected media formats tomorrow. And even if they did (they won't) the bitrates supported by GoogleTV make it more of a "that's cool, I can get information about my TV show online" rather then a real media device. IE, Gordon Brown giving out a recipe in a show? GoogleTV does someting others don't: it will allow you to instantly get the results and likely print up the recipe to a source or send a copy to your TV.. very, very cool. You want to save that show to watch it later? Nope. You want to store it in your local network to watch later? Nope. You want to do almost anything else with it? Nope.


So, let's put it in the category it is. It's a neat item, and it will have tons of uses, but it's a convenience.. it's just not really a competitor for any of the products shipping, and it's not really intended to be.


In regards to Froyo.. again, Giz and others have this wrong. Everyone keeps looking at "this is a shot at Apple" the way the new synch functions. And in some ways it is an attempt to leapfrog Apple by doing something unique. Except, despite all the oohing and aaahing, this isn't really unique. There is someone who has been doing this for years. And because they have been the only ones doing something like it, this is a real shot across their bow. And it's not Apple, it's RIM. RIM's Blackberry Enterprise Server has allowed for OTA synch of exchange data, calendaring, etc. all in real time. Functions that just didn't work worth a damn on any other phone (even MS) as well as document and flow management, and in later support network share supports over OTA.

One of the reasons why iPhone and others haven't gotten great penetration into business environments is that locking them down is difficult (1) and (2) direct integration into major server platforms, like Microsoft Exchange is an absolute bear. They'd synch when connected, and they could retrieve mail, but their support of instant updates to calendaring/tasks/nested folders/filters/sorting and data shares was something that has always been out of the reach of Apple. Enough so that they ditched their own efforts and basically adopted microsoft's ActiveSync for integration this last go around on the 3GS and up.


Google's OTA synch with real-time updates and connection to the web (and potentially the workplace) is the first real shot anyone has taken to really out-blackberry Blackberry. If anyone should be sweating that function, it's RIM. There are lots of people tied to RIM, but if Google comes up with an option that delivers BES like features, OTA synching, livetime desktop updates, they will have accomplished what RIM did, in arguably a nicer phone. If they go the next step and give administrators access functions, they have a home run.


The way all of this works together to leverage their phone is really the end point. GoogleTV may not be a media-center replacement of any sort, but as a platform to leverage streaming content it gives them a larger ability to connect in home devices. Google's play to now manage GM's OnStar car applications means they are starting to develop a point to point to point platform. That is, You use a Google Phone. Your TV sends data to your phone based on your content that you want. You send a signal through your phone to your GoogleOS Chevy, and it remote starts on a cool day, and GoogleTV remembers the online radio stream you were listening to and forwards it out to your car, so when you get to the car, the radio is playing exactly what you were listening to, and using your 3G connection there, it keeps humming along.


Don't like what you have there? Fine, google can stream live content from non-DRM'd MP3s you can store in their cloud, so have an audio book? MP3s of your music? Go ahead and request through your phone one, or have your Chevy grab hold of your online UPNP storage.


The functionality is potentially incredible, and it trumpcards a lot of things out there.

But piece by piece it isn't a "this kills X" it's the fact that it works together that creates it's own ecosystem. But it does nothing to replace or alter others. In fact, I'd say that GoogleTV is likely a potential significant boost to both Microsoft MCE/MediaRoom and AppleTV, as it will still read stream data off both, making those more functional products.

Carlo, yes that was a sweeping generalization, but that doesn't mean it's not true. I supported my assertion with just one example. There are others, including personal interaction with people who I would consider otherwise level-headed.


And my use of "Apple fanboiz" in quotes was just to refer to what the backlash refers to them as. If I had meant it as a personal dig at anyone, I wouldn't have used quotes.


Honestly, while there is plenty of product zealotry out there, especially when it comers to competing products, I've never seen it reach the level of arrogance, snobbery and elitism as with Apple products.

I don't understand Google TV. And none of the blog reports so far make sense of it. Matt's comments suggest future possibilities, but doesn't explain its role today.


As far as I can tell, it's a box to put YouTube on my TV. Uhmm...so...? My Tivo does that. I never use it.


I guess I'm one of those fuddy duddies that actually likes to watch HD programming on my HDTV. Not "HD" low-bitrate output from CBS.com that falls back to a browser every 12 minutes for a granola-bar ad. And certainly not 360p YouTube videos.


Maybe GoogleTV has more awesome than is apparent from Engadget reporting. Or maybe it won't be seen for a couple of years once its woven into other structures, as Matt suggests. But currently it looks like a non-solution looking for a non-problem.

GoogleTV starts out pretty much Youtube and their own premium content to your TV.


But it also right off the bat is supposed to work as an insert to live TV. The example they've used is sports: watching a game, you can put the google stat tracker across the bottom. Or have it display fantasy league points in live time, or whatever.


Neat ideas, but nothing wildly revolutionary. The promise of it is "in the future"


But as said, since it doesn't use a storage media or an encoding technology, most of the tech that people want to pit it up against it falls hideously short against. And google has no intent of ever offering those functions

"I've never seen it reach the level of arrogance, snobbery and elitism as with Apple products."


There are "fanboiz" of every stripe out there, and they are all of them annoying.

Mulling this a bit more -- lots of mulling time during vacation driving -- I was again annoyed at how it's simply impossible to create a good TV device. The AppleTV has been left to rot in the sun; but what can they do? GoogleTV is a tool to put YouTube on your TV, but what can they do?


What do I want? I love my Tivo, but clearly no one is willing to pay for great DVR; not enough to interest Apple or Google. What about a video jukebox, a device to auto-rip DVD and Blu-ray and manage them for you? That's illegal; not something Apple or Google will tackle. Playing TV from websites? Sure they can do it, in some cases. But it's mediocre quality, no comparison to proper HDTV. Watch YouTube? Who "watches" YouTube? Not worth a device per se. That leaves a "rental" or "purchase" system like AppleTV has. Some people like it, but selection is poor and costs are high. There's a possible future there, but it seems "Hollywood" wants to hinder it. Streaming video? Netflix shows there's significant resistance from the content providers for it, even if someone builds a device and service for it.


So we get these half-baked devices that do a smattering of things that never really provide a full solution for people. Niche solutions for some specific people. But nothing truly robust or broadly interesting.


Maybe a Google or Apple will be able to, say, knock sense into Hollywood and create a truly compelling device and service. But I'm not holding my breath.

I think no matter how you look at what is available out there, Media Center application is one of the few Microsoft really, really got right. Their ability to market it as such hasn't been the best, but thanks to it's support for CableCard, this could be a very good summer for MCE fans.. as a combo DVR+Netflix+OnlineMedia+Bluray+Storage Controller, it is lightyears ahead of almost anything else out there.


GoogleTV just seems to me to be a real one trick niche.


AppleTV's next generation, if it is as rumored, will be an IphoneOS device, running an A4 for low power usage, and direct connection to Itunes as it's primary (really only) method of display/etc. This is interesting, but it uh, doesn't address nearly the needs of end users.


I think everyone has come out with Niche product, and typical MS style, they have the one and really only "killer app" in their own system, and they have absolutely no idea at all on how to pitch it to people; though the move to MediaRoom for SureWest/ATT/Charter could be a change in that.

A big problem with MCE is MS has failed to educate the market about it. I have no idea where I would buy it or what it requires.

This guy says we are thinking about this battle all wrong from the web perspective:

http://www.osnews.com/story/23378/Will_Apple_Embrace_the_Web_No

Originally Posted by DaveF

A big problem with MCE is MS has failed to educate the market about it. I have no idea where I would buy it or what it requires.

Click to expand...

Bingo. Isn't it amazing that here it is, free and builtin to every version of Windows7 outside of Basic, and yet, with all their ad campaign MS has done very little.. basically nothing to really promote a product that is as good as it is..