PSYCHO to Blu Ray - Page 6

Obviously the studio knew about it, they're releasing it. In any case, the point is completely moot when the original track is provided, which it is.
 

So, is the consensus that they did add some new sound effects to the 7.1 surround track that didn't exist in the original mono soundtrack and then gave the impression in the PSYCHO SOUND documentary that they did not add anything?  Is that clear as mud? 

There are some minor changes to the sound effects in the 5.1 (it's not 7.1) surround track. The PSYCHO SOUND featurette tends to give the impression that sound effects derived solely from the original mono soundtrack because the sound editor says "We're not here to recreate what was already created in this film". In an interview, the Audionamix CEO does say "We didn't change anything" but this is part of an interview (split into different parts) in which he is discussing the music - not the effects.   
 

So, they didn't change the music, but possibly changed the sound effects!  I thought those raindrops and crickets were a bit too good to be true.

Mr. Harris - can you explain what you mean by the "entire correct original version"?  I am having a discussion on another forum concerning the seemingly more complete version that has been shown on German television and is outlined at the link below.  Do you have any knowledge of whether the domestic version was censored?  Thanks.

 

http://movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=1921

My UK steelbook shipped on Monday -- Royal Mail, as always before -- and arrived today, four days later.  Yay!!  (I'm only mentioning that because people were tracking this for a while.)  Can't wait to get into it, probably late tonight.

Edited by Chas in CT - 9/3/10 at 2:26pm

I watched Psycho last night with the mono track (my UK keepcase finally came). I thought it was excellent as well. I will probably revisit some scenes just to hear the new sound; but I really enjoyed it in mono.

 

Over all I am pleased with the way the movie looked. I've only seen it in its various video incarnations or broadcast TV and this is the best it has ever looked.

I created a short video comparison of some of the differences and posted it on youtube. Keep in mind that the fidelity is reduced on youtube, so the differences are not as striking as they are on the blu ray.

 

The major difference in the shower scene is the new sound effect for the shower. It sounds much crisper and more modern than the less obtrusive, duller sound Hitchcock used. Also listen for a new sound when Marion turns the knob. Hitchock made the artistic decision to dial down the shower sound once the curtain is pulled open, allowing the music, screams and stabbing sounds to be emphasized. The new new mix keeps the shower sound turned up, which dimishes the effect of the music in particular. Once again, the youtube sound is not as crisp as the blu ray, so the differences are harder to hear.

 

Other scenes included: the sound effects for the curtain opening and the rings popping are different. There is missing foley when Norman runs out of the house. Music level is lowered and sound effects added when Lila finds Mother. There are numerous other changes throughout the movie, but these are the most significant IMO.

 

Link to comparison video:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcNpTYRj8S0

Edited by Dave MJ - 9/5/10 at 1:55pm

Okay, so we're all in agreement that they fibbed in the documentary PSYCHO SOUND when they said they culled all the sound from the original mono soundtrack for the 5.1 DTS surround track.

That does sound very different, but is it not possible that they took the original sound and subtracted/reduced certain attributes to yield this sound in the new DTS mix?  I could imagine that being done for the (leaner, more defined) shower sound, but I don't know enough to tell how likely that would be -- and if done that way, they technically would not be lying.

 

_Man_

A change using the original as the source for the change is still a change.  That means that any statement claiming they "didn't change anything" is false.  Period.

In order to create a 5.1 track from a mono source they would have to make changes in how the sound is spread across the channels so it's a given that levels and positioning would be changed. I still believe that they are saying they did not recreate any of the effects, etc. They did change the levels and the mix. Otherwise what's the point of a 5.1 track?

If everyone would just listen to the original and superior 2.0 mono track that the blu-ray defaults to, that is what the movie should sound like. I think the mistake that Universal made was in trying to create the 5.1 track and thereby creating unnecessary chaos. Why is anyone listening to the 5.1 track in the first place?

If the movie had originally been mixed that way (impossible in 1960), then any discussion of "changes" to the original 5.1 mix would be valid. But we're talking about a mix that was extracted from the original mono source, so of course it's going to sound different from the original. I have watched the movie now three times with the original mono track. It's a revelation compared to all previous releases of this movie in any form, and for that I'm very grateful to the Universal folks.
 

I understand what you are saying, but they are completely new sounds. It's not a matter of repositioning them in the mix. The original effects they do use sound exactly the same, so there is no reason to believe these would sound so different. Plus, there are new sounds added that were never there (the squeak of the shower knob being turned, the whoosh as the shower comes out, the noise when Lila hits the lightbulb, etc)  so they could not possibly have come from the mono track.

 

The new sounds are present and mixed with the old ones throughout the movie, not just in the clips I created. The murder of Arbogast, for example, is done perfectly with the original sound effects (except for new foley when he closes the door, but it doesnt affect the scene).

 

I watched the Psycho Sound documentary again, and the editing is a bit confusing. It is the guy from the French company that re-engineered the music who states "we didn't change or add anything." He is referring to the music only, not the sound effects, even though they incorrectly show a scene with dialogue and sound effects as an example.  And he is correct, the music is not changed, just re-engineered into stereo. And quite well imo.

 

The Americans who mixed the film are the ones who added the new effects. They do not state that they didn't change the effects. I don't think anyone lied per se. The editing back and forth with the French crew confuses things. One guys says "we didn't reinvent the wheel", but he does not state that they didn't add new effects. In fact, they talk about adding several stereo tracks of rain to the rainstorm. It is ironic that they talk about Hitchcock's artistic intent in the shower scene and yet managed to not follow what he did with the sound. I think this is the typical case of modern sound engineers thinking they know better than the artists "back then" and can "improve" the film.

 

The new soundtrack is certainly not a travesty, but I am really amazed they didn't take better care to match the shower scene exactly. It is the one scene with the new mix that completely takes me out of the movie. Even with the new sound effects, they should have meticulously matched the mixing levels for a scene with one of the most famous soundtracks of all time. It's quite sloppy really, as is the missing foley when Norman runs out of the house.

 

 

 

Quote:

Edited by Dave MJ - 9/6/10 at 4:23pm

Sorry, but you are wrong. There are newly recorded sound effects mixed with the original sound effects throughout the film. It has nothing to do with positioning. But you are right that the mono track is superior and the best that it has ever sounded. Kudos to Universal for making it the default sound option and not forcing people to listen to the new mix out of the box. Hopefully that will be the case on the US release.

 

I think the new music track is very well done, I would love to watch the movie with stereo music and the original sound effects track.

 

This is what they should have done.  Period.  Mucking around with new sound effects goes WAY too far. 

For those of you with this disc, I have a question. On the mono track, when Marion hears Mother yelling at Norman through the window of her room, can you hear Mother's voice plainly? The last release was a bit better than the original dvd where you couldn't understand what she was saying. Also, when Lila and Marion's boyfriend come to the hotel and speak with Norman, are there voices in sync with their lips? The last release was out of sync.

Eric,

 

Per your questions: I can hear everything his mother says during the referenced scene. A few of her words seem a bit muddled, but I think it's inherent in the recording; all though, are in essence discernible. In the second scene you mention, I detect no lip synch issues whatsoever. 

By the way, Amazon UK must be back to shipping Royal Mail as I ordered this title along with another one last Thursday morning and already received it today here in Michigan.  This should make Roger Mathus happy.

 

 

 

 

 

Crawdaddy

Thanks, David.

I got ALI BABBA AND THE FORTY THIEVES, THE BLACK SHIELD OF FARNSWORTH, and PRINCE VALIANT from Amazon.uk.  They all look stunning.  I love Eureka.  I think they are the greatest on classic movies.  I would Universal would give them all their classics including the early horror movies.

 

Also, bring us VERTIGO with the original mono track done the same way and optional DTS.

Edited by warnerbro - 9/9/10 at 10:59am

Interesting thread here, I hadn't found it before and didn't realize that effects were added. Personally, I think the stereo sound increases the suspense so I will stick with that track. But it's sad that they didn't use the same sound effects from the original with the stereo score.



The advertising on the film was amazing for its time, it was a truly genius promotional campaign. Also, the true events that led to the original book is just horrible.

For those of you who love the film, I just did a few months research on the film and collecting of some very rare publicity materials on the film. You can find my special Halloween edition column on Blu-ray.com, one of my Silver Screen columns ( see left side of the front page). I hope you enjoy it! Happy Halloween!

I've watched this a couple of times, going back and forth between the mono track and the 5.1. There are surely some elements that are more defined in the 5.1 (the car wipers come to mind), but I'm not completely sure what their source is. Are they newly recorded sounds, or did they go into the Universal sound effects library, and find the original sound effects (possibly in better quality than was on the original stems) and re-mix them into the sound track, panning them out across the 5.1 sound field?

I think if I were asked to make a new 5.1 track for an old studio film, that is the first thing I would do. Dive into the sound effects librarey, and try to find the original sound effects so they could be isolated and then mixed into a proper 5.1 track.

Doug

Robert, your Silver Screen columns on Bluray.com and all the others you have done over the years are superb. You have photos and ad material I have never seen anywhere. Do you have any word on the new 1925 Phantom of the Opera on Blu-ray or any of the other Universal original horror classics?

The Psycho 50th Anniversary edition Steelbook (Region 2) Blu-ray, is one of some Blu-rays I'm interested in getting. Do people here recommend it? Heard parts of the Psycho instrumental score in an episode of American Horror Story, and it just made me think how effective that score was in Psycho (1960).

 

What's the likelihood of something similar on Blu-ray for Psycho II (1983)?