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Blu-Ray DVD integration with existing Bose Lifestyle 25

post #1 of 27
4/26/10 at 3:00am
Thread Starter 
At long last, it's time to upgrade the home theatre experience.  Those only part of the old system I want to save is the Bose Lifestyle 25, mostly because a) it's working well, and b) I long ago had the wires mounted above the ceiling for the rear speakers and changing those would be a pain.

I'm going to buy a plasma tv this week; I've selected a Samsung PN58C590.  I'll upgrade the cable box to whatever Comcast has for HD.  And I'll replace the old DVD player with a new Blu-Ray, but got confused about whether I need "on board decoding".  Is this something I need to connect my Bose Lifestyle 25 (Series I)?

I think specs I've read say I need Profile 2.0, and if I can get wireless internet to it, that would be best so I don't have to run a cable.  A lower budget Blu-Ray capable of 1080p that works with the Bose is what I'm looking for.  Suggestions?

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post #2 of 27
4/26/10 at 4:52am
You have a Series I.  Only the Series II has digital surround sound decoding.  Neither Lifestyle 25 has multi-channel analog inputs so you don't need a Blu-ray with onboard decoding.

Series I manual - http://products.bose.com/pdf/customer_service/owners/og_ls25_s1.pdf
Series II manual - http://products.bose.com/pdf/customer_service/owners/og_ls25.pdf

You would not need to change any wires if you wanted different rear speakers.  You may need to change the connection to bare wire but that takes 30 seconds with a pair of wire cutters.

If you read here a little more, you will find that we don't care for Bose that much.  They claim and price themselves as a high end audio company when they have the quality of a Wal-Mart home theater in a box (HTiB).  I suggest you upgrade to a real receiver and speaker system.  That way you can get digital surround sound from both your new Blu-ray player and HD cable box.  One with HDMI audio decoding will allow you to hear the new HD sound formats on Blu-ray discs.

If you want to keep your Bose, any low cost player with wireless internet connectivity will work for you.
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post #3 of 27
4/26/10 at 11:50am
Thread Starter 
I read for a while before posting, so I'm well aware of the condescension toward Bose.  My brother-in-law does the really high-end audiophile stuff (I changed the rubber stands that hold the speaker wires last time I was there; he wanted to see if that made a difference).

But I already own the Bose and it's already installed.  Unless you know of a new receiver that can beat the Bose on price (free!), then I'll stick with what I already have.  When it dies, then I'll replace it.

Thanks for the response about the onboard decoding, that helps a lot.  And if you know of a blu-ray player with the wireless internet, that would be helpful, too.
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post #4 of 27
4/26/10 at 12:12pm
A few Samsung models come with a wireless USB dongle.  Some Insignia (Best Buy) models have built-in wireless.  I'm sure others have similar features but I haven't looked at them.  I picked my Samsung based on the on-board audio decoding and 7.1 analog outputs.  I was surprised to find built-in wireless.

Since you are going to stick with Bose, no other standard feature really matters.  You will use the R/L analog audio outputs of the player to send analog audio to your Bose.  You can get pretty detailed with other things though.  My Samsung will stream Blockbuster, Netflix, Pandora and You Tube as well as connecting with my home network to stream personal content.  Other players have additional streaming features or a USB port to connect an external hard drive.  You could spend days researching that.
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post #5 of 27
4/26/10 at 2:01pm
Thread Starter 

Well, looking through the Bose manual, I'm confused even more.  I have 5 speakers so I was pretty sure I was getting surround sound, but I don't see how that happens if I bring in 2 analog signals to the unit. 

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post #6 of 27
4/26/10 at 2:55pm
You were getting matrixed surround sound.  Dolby Pro Logic or something under the Bose name.  The only way to get discreet 5.1 channel surround sound is with a digital connection.  Your system does not have one.
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post #7 of 27
4/26/10 at 2:58pm
 To get digital sound you need a digital connection.  The BOSE you have does not have a digital input.  The best you can get is matrixed surround from the 2 channel source.

Sometimes free is too much.  I suggest you sell it on EBAY.
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post #8 of 27
4/26/10 at 5:18pm

Robert_J...   "You will find that we don't care much for Bose here",  Who is we??   you mean....you don't care for Bose.  Sorry, but you don't speak for me.

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post #9 of 27
4/26/10 at 7:43pm
Then how about..."you won't find much support for Bose products on this forum."
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post #10 of 27
4/26/10 at 8:28pm
Or, "You will find that the vast majority of serious home theater enthusiasts, on this and other forums, think that the Bose HT systems (we're not talking about Bose direct/reflecting stereo speakers, here) are a triumph of marketing over reality.  That they are grossly overpriced for what you get, and technically inferior to systems costing much less.  Cheaply constructed, their tiny speaker enclosures contain limited range speakers because that is all you can fit in such an enclosure, and their so-called bass modules - which are not subwoofers - are mostly there to supply the missing mid-range that the tiny satellites can't quite manage."

Does that work better? 

Regards,

Joe
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post #11 of 27
4/27/10 at 12:28am
Thread Starter 
I get it.  Y'all don't like Bose.

But none of you will convince my wife we should spend the money to replace it.  :)
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post #12 of 27
4/27/10 at 4:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Meyer View Post

I get it.  Y'all don't like Bose.
As an educated consumer who wants accurate sound at a good value, Bose does not fit the bill.  The advertise that they are the be-all, end-all of quality.  They are really the best marketing company in the world while being only average at building audio equipment.  At one time Parts Express was selling surplus drivers from the Lifestyle systems for under $3 each.  Combine that with a molded plastic enclosure and you are looking at speakers that cost at most $5 each.  Compared to other speakers, they sound like they cost $5 each as well.

Over the years we have probably been about 50% successful in convincing someone to switch to something else.  Out of the people that switch, they are all happy.  But the people that don't switch are happy as well because Bose does fit a niche market.

In your situation you have to decide if you really want digital surround sound.  If you do, we can help you with an upgrade path as well as tips on convincing the wife to go along with it.  If you are satisfied with your current audio then we will drop the Bose talk and focus on Blu-ray players that will work with your goals.  By the way, what are your goals other than internet connectivity?
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post #13 of 27
4/27/10 at 4:49am
To fully answer your question:
1. You will only need to connect the analog audio L/R cables to your BOSE since it can't decode either Dolby TrueHD and/or DTS-HD MA.  It also can't decode bitstream downconverted Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS.

2. When you hook-up your Blu-ray player in this fashion you may also want to go into the Audio section of the player's SETUP menu and change the PCM downconversion to "Surround Encoded" if your player allows that.  (Most do.)  This should provide for a better surround sound experience from your BOSE system.

Nothing else will be required; but you won't be able to fully enjoy the discrete, lossless, digital surround sound afforded by the Blu-ray format. 
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post #14 of 27
4/27/10 at 10:42am
Thread Starter 
Thanks, Joseph.  While I appreciate the anti-Bose information, I came here looking for a blu-ray player.  In all probability, we'll use it to record HD movies from Comcast to play later.  The internet connectivity will be a toy for me to play with occasionally, but not necessary.  Since the router is in an inconvenient room, wireless would be my choice.  We probably won't use the Youtube or Netflix options, using the On-Demand features from Comcast instead.

I'm leaning toward a Samsung because I like the quality of their products lately.  I'm leaning toward the BD-C6500.  It has built-in wireless, analog audio outputs, and USB ports my wife might use to display her thousands of pictures.  If I can find a copy of their manual, I'll see if they have "Surround Encoded" and that will seal it for me.
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post #15 of 27
4/27/10 at 11:56am
Thread Starter 

From the BD-C6500 manual -

Downmixing Mode
---------------
Set whether to downmix the multi-channel audio into fewer channels.
- Normal Stereo.  Downmixes the multi-channel audio into two channel stereo.  Choose when connected to equipment that does not support virtual surround functions such as Dolby Pro Logic.
- Surround Compatible.  Downmixes multi-channel audio into surround compatible stereo.  Choose when connected to equipment that does supports virtual surround functions such as Dolby Pro Logic.


Is that 2nd one the one you were talking about?  A review of the Bose manual says it supports "Dolby Surround."

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post #16 of 27
4/27/10 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Meyer View Post

In all probability, we'll use it to record HD movies from Comcast to play later. 
It is a PLAYER, not a recorder.  I suggest a DVR from Comcast for recording and later playback.
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post #17 of 27
4/27/10 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Meyer View Post

From the BD-C6500 manual -

Downmixing Mode
---------------
Set whether to downmix the multi-channel audio into fewer channels.
- Normal Stereo.  Downmixes the multi-channel audio into two channel stereo.  Choose when connected to equipment that does not support virtual surround functions such as Dolby Pro Logic.
- Surround Compatible.  Downmixes multi-channel audio into surround compatible stereo.  Choose when connected to equipment that does supports virtual surround functions such as Dolby Pro Logic.


Is that 2nd one the one you were talking about?  A review of the Bose manual says it supports "Dolby Surround."

The 2nd is correct.  Instead of down mixing to generic stereo, it adds the appropriate phase cues to the signal so it is properly decoded by Dolby Pro-Logic surround sound.

Samsung is very nice.  I have the BD-P 3600.
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post #18 of 27
4/27/10 at 2:03pm
Thread Starter 

Thanks, Robert, I'll go with the Samsung.
 

And sorry for the confusion on the player.  We use the DVR to record and later playback, but my wife occasionally records to DVD to archive for later... uh... oh.  I had just assumed this records DVDs.  It doesn't.  Doh.


And it doesn't appear any of the Blu-ray players record DVD in any format.  Again doh.  I suppose I can keep both the DVD-R and the Blu-Ray, but since we don't currently own any blu-ray discs, that doesn't make sense.

We are definitely getting the Comcast HD DVR, but sometimes my wife wants to archive old Turner Classic movies, or some movie when we have young kids over.  I don't know if it's possible to move a movie off of the DVR onto say, her laptop.

It's starting to look like I'm keeping the old DVD-R.  Bummer.  First Old Bose, and now Old DVD-R. 

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post #19 of 27
4/27/10 at 3:47pm
It is possible to record from a DVR to a laptop but you will need the appropriate connections for audio and video as well as capture software and authoring software.  Products like Nero have all the software you need.  As you can see, a stand alone DVD recorder is much, much easier to use for occasional recordings.
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post #20 of 27
4/27/10 at 5:06pm
 Tivo is what you need.  You can record and offload those recordings to your computer.  You can burn the recordings to a DVDR on your computer (with the correct software).  Tivo even sells the software (it is free to view on your computer, it costs a few dollars to burn/convert).
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post #21 of 27
4/27/10 at 7:01pm
Michael,

I am one of the few on this forum that will stick up for one at least one Bose product.  I have owed a set of Bose 901 Series II which I purchased new in 1974 for $400 and still use them for stereo music listening.  As far as I am concerned the 901's and the 800 PA speakers were the only Bose products that were any good.  The problem with the 901's were that many rooms in the average home did not have the proper reflective surfaces required by their design and they had to be set up very precisely within that  room to perform correctly.  Many wife's disliked the fact that the speakers had taken over layout of their family or living room.    As a result of management change and bowing to the wishes of wife's and interior designers Bose developed the first of their cube systems which could easily be hidden in just about every room.  They marketed their product in with specially produced audio tracks that sounded great in the store but were not the same audio products available to the public. 

I have noticed that Bose cubes are about the only product that people feel free to complain about even white van specials tend to get more respect.  This is due to the fact that the cost of the Bose Cubes are way out of whack with the quality of the product.  

One thing people tend to forget is speakers are very subjective in evaluation.  Your Bose Cubes will work with all of your new equipment but you are not going to get the benefits in audio quality from your new Blu-ray and HD cable.  But it will be no worse than what you are currently experiencing.    Down the road you might want to check out what you are missing and see if it is worth it to you upgrade.  
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post #22 of 27
4/28/10 at 12:52pm
Robert_J.....sounds better...Thank You. 
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post #23 of 27
4/28/10 at 1:02pm
Quote:
I am one of the few on this forum that will stick up for one at least one Bose product.  I have owed a set of Bose 901 Series II which I purchased new in 1974 for $400 and still use them for stereo music listening. 
 

Actually, I find very little bashing on the 301s, 901s or other non-HT speakers from Bose, here or elsewhere.  The disrespect is almost entirely limited to their mini-cube HT Lifestyle and similar systems.  Which is one reason why I specifically excluded speakers like the 901s from my comments above:

Quote:
the Bose HT systems (we're not talking about Bose direct/reflecting stereo speakers, here) are a triumph of marketing over reality.
 

(Emphasis added.)

So it isn't so much that you're one of the few who will defend the 901s, it is that they are not what most people are thinking about when the name "Bose" comes up, and they are almost never relevant to the discussions in which it does - which are pretty much always about their overpriced, underperforming, glorified "home theater in a box" systems.  Why defend the 901s when nobody is attacking them? 

Regards,

Joe
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post #24 of 27
4/28/10 at 2:30pm
Thread Starter 

I looked into Tivo (thanks, David!), but I'm not sure they have a product that will work with Comcast Houston.  I think I'm stuck with the Scientific American DVR that Comcast offers.
 

As for Bose, I guess I started that, but I don't see the sense in spending good money for something I already have.  I'm aware there are improvements out there, but I already *own* the Lifestyle 25.  I've had it since '97.  It works fine and the sound quality is decent, an improvement over the built-in sound from the TVs.  From my point of view, my Lifestyle 25 is *free* and it's already installed.  Any new surround sound system better come with free foot massagers and an ice cream dispenser for me to spend money to upgrade.


I came looking for a Blu-Ray solution; I was unaware there were no Blu-Ray players that also record until yesterday.  I like the Tivo solution if it worked with Comcast (the local Best Buy says they do not sell a DVR that works with Comcast; if true, the Tivo probably won't work).  Right now I'm leaning toward just keeping the DVD-R so my wife can archive old TCM movies if there's not a better option.

Insert any additional Bose bashing into this little box:  [  ]

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post #25 of 27
4/28/10 at 2:51pm
Quote:
 
(the local Best Buy says they do not sell a DVR that works with Comcast; if true, the Tivo probably won't work). 
 


I would take any technical advice that you get from a Best Buy employee with about a pound of salt.  I can't think of any reason why an HD TiVo would not work with Comcast.  I have Comcast here in Florida and my old SD Series 2 and Series 3 TiVos worked just fine, thank you.  Moving up to an HD TiVo plus the service isn't in the cards for me for budget reasons (partly because most of my cable cost is now covered in my condo association fee thanks to a new bulk-buying agreement), but if money were no object I'd do it in a heartbeat.  What the Blue Shirt was probably thinking was that Comcast's interactive services won't work with a TiVo if you just run the cable from the wall and plug it into the back of the unit - which is perfectly true.  That's why there are cable cards.  You get two of these from Comcast  for a two-tuner HD TiVo (and insist that since both are going into a single DVR to provide access to their services you should only be charged for one) and you should be good to do with ordering pay-per-view and other On Demand stuff with your remote.  (Or, if that isn't a big issue with you, save a couple of bucks, skip the cable cards and order pay-per-view by phone instead.  The rest of your HD cable service should work just fine.  There is no such thing as a DVR that flat-out "won't work" with a given cable company that I know of, at least not in the U.S.)

Regards,

Joe
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post #26 of 27
4/28/10 at 3:44pm
Most cable companies are idiots about this as well.  If you have trouble activating your TiVo, they will work with the cable company to get you set up.

Yes, it is more expensive to use TiVo but the benefits are worth it to most people.  I still run my DirecTiVo (a combination DirecTV TiVo box) as well as my DirecTV built DVR's.  DirecTV has equivalent features of the DirecTiVo but can't compete with the stand alone TiVo models in features.
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post #27 of 27
4/28/10 at 6:09pm

 Actually, you only need one card now (the Premiere only has one slot).  All current cable cards are now "M Cards" that allow multiple streams (tuners).  Comcast gives you the first one for free.  If you want more, I believe they are $2.99 per month.

The Tivo will work with Comcast in Houston.  They will have to set you up with a cable card (they may do it or allow you to do it).  Either way, you can record your shows and save them to your computer (the exception to this are protected shows - usually only pay channels like HBO).

Oh, and I agree..  Most cable companies are idiots 

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