A few words about...™ Dr. Zhivago -- in Blu-ray - Page 5

Compare Schickel's and Kael's confrontation with Bosley Crowther's infamous criticism of 'Lawrence' in the New York Times (available online)! The former were at least part of a group gathered to honor the maker of this masterpiece while the latter's 'review' (because that's all it was - not a scholarly assessment of an epic FILM) dripped of sarcasm and cynicism. It's interesting to read peoples' current comments to this article, one saying that rottentomatoes.com could find only one negative review of the film, that being Crowther's. Another said that Crowther probably had to eat his words for decades afterwards.

As the old sawhorse goes: Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach (to which I would add: become 'critics').

Lean was so shaken by the savaging of RD (particularly by Kael) that he didn't make another film for 14 years.

Schickle was more often than not, very kind to filmmakers if not their films. His reviews are rarely personal. He often gets interviews with filmmakers such as Hitchcock, Spielberg and Lucas for his documentaries. I don't know that they would participate if they didn't respect his work

Kael on the other had was just vicious in her attacks on films and filmmakers, so much so that Lucas named a villain after her. I found her reviews for the most part to be intellectually bankrupt. Unlike Schickle she had no real understanding of filmmaking, unfortunately she THOUGHT that she did. She was just another flunky with an opinion. Of course thats just my opinion so take it for what its worth.

Doug

No, I think you're right, Doug. Kael was pretty bad in her attacks. Schickle really liked A Passage to India, or so I've read, and Kael even admitted that the characters "do live." Perhaps they felt bad, perhaps not. Any film, no matter what an amazing classic/masterpiece/epiphany it is considered by most to be, will have detractors. Lawrence can indeed be picked apart, on an historical level, and certainly if one isn't in the mood to spend four hours in the desert with a quivering verge of a nervous breakdown Peter O'Toole. If a critic, or worse an audience, fail to immerse into the universe a director has created, for whatever reasons of their own, it is fatal. Shawshank Redemption faired poorly until people began to watch it on home video, where it seemed to reveal itself and become a cult classic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce 

Lean was so shaken by the savaging of RD (particularly by Kael) that he didn't make another film for 14 years.

 

She was just another flunky with an opinion. Of course thats just my opinion so take it for what its worth.

 

Doug

People forget that, while Lean was badly shaken by that incident, he didn't wait 14 years to make another movie. After a long sabbatical, he spent years developing his version of 'Mutiny on the Bounty' that got as far as the ship being built. Unfortunately, he decided late in the game that he wanted to make a two-parter, so De Laurentiis (the producer, if memory serves me) pulled the plug. Bolt's script later got made by Roger Donaldson. It's by far the best Bounty, for my money, with Bligh becoming a three-dimensional character for the first time. It breaks my heart that Lean didn't get to realize his vision. Apparently he had brilliant (but expensive) ideas that didn't make it into the Donaldson version.

I love the last line, 'another flunky with an opinion'. An apt description for most of them! If you don't mind, I'll borrow it in the future, with proper attribution, of course :)
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24fpssean 

No, I think you're right, Doug. Kael was pretty bad in her attacks. Schickle really liked A Passage to India, or so I've read, and Kael even admitted that the characters "do live." Perhaps they felt bad, perhaps not. 

 

Shawshank Redemption faired poorly until people began to watch it on home video, where it seemed to reveal itself and become a cult classic.

Schickel wrote the David Lean/Passage to India cover story for Time (I think I still have it), heralding the 'return of a master'. After Lean's death, he said that the article was written partly as an apology for the Algonquin incident.

Re Shawshank on home video. It's amazing how many movies that I literally hated watching in a cinema that later became huge favorites for me on home video. Mood, comfort level and other factors of course play into it. Like Shawshank, some movies develop a cult following once they get to video (wasn't this the case with Blade Runner?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by marsnkc 

People forget that, while Lean was badly shaken by that incident, he didn't wait 14 years to make another movie. After a long sabbatical, he spent years developing his version of 'Mutiny on the Bounty' that got as far as the ship being built. Unfortunately, he decided late in the game that he wanted to make a two-parter, so De Laurentiis (the producer, if memory serves me) pulled the plug. Bolt's script later got made by Roger Donaldson. It's by far the best Bounty, for my money, with Bligh becoming a three-dimensional character for the first time. It breaks my heart that Lean didn't get to realize his vision. Apparently he had brilliant (but expensive) ideas that didn't make it into the Donaldson version.

 

I love the last line, 'another flunky with an opinion'. An apt description for most of them! If you don't mind, I'll borrow it in the future, with proper attribution, of course :)
 

Schickel wrote the David Lean/Passage to India cover story for Time (I think I still have it), heralding the 'return of a master'. After Lean's death, he said that the article was written partly as an apology for the Algonquin incident.

 

Re Shawshank on home video. It's amazing how many movies that I literally hated watching in a cinema that later became huge favorites for me on home video. Mood, comfort level and other factors of course play into it. Like Shawshank, some movies develop a cult following once they get to video (wasn't this the case with Blade Runner?)

You're more than welcome to quote me on that one.

You're right that Lean was working on Mutiny on the Bounty. After that project fell through he was also working on Nostromo with Spielberg as producer. He was also toying for some time with making Empire of the Sun. Some people believe that all of these films never got made under his direction, because of his fear of failure and that he would set himself up to fail. How much of that is true and how much is hogwash is anyone's guess.

Blade Runner very much a flop on its original release. I saw it opening day and loved it, but that was the summer of E.T. and Star Trek 2, and downer films like Blade Runner and The Thing didn't stand a chance. Of course both films have gone on to be very successful on home video.

Doug

It was, initially at least, to be two films of course. - the BFI has some interesting if limited production info on-line.

I'm still waiting for someone to make a film about Captain Bligh's years as Governor of New South Wales. He was sent to Australia in disgrace, and basically just spent his time being a professional drunkard ribbon cutter who was paid 2000 pounds a year for his troubles. The current Premier of Queensland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Bligh is related to the Captain Bligh.

Sounds like the ideal project for Sir Les Patterson.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Harris 

The screenplay of Captain Bligh, which runs 163 pages, is both epic and brilliant - a Lean project in every way.  Reading the draft, one can easily visualize the shots and hear the music score.  One image that stays with me regards the ship making its way in freezing weather, and then encapsulated in ice exits a fog bank and becomes visible to us.

 

I checked out the BFI site which lists, in the section on Lean that John linked, a 'bound' copy of 'The Lawbreakers'. That section is either under construction or they were forced to remove material because there's no further information that I can find about obtaining a copy. Also, in the section that claims to show correspondence between Eddie Fowlie and Sir David, the only correspondence uploaded is from two people to Fowlie about the ship itself and arrangements for its arrival in Tahiti and reception. Is the draft you mention available for purchase? Can't find anything on the 'net but emailed BFI.
 

Curious to know how close the characterizations of Bligh and Christian are to those portrayed in the Donaldson film.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BethHarrison 

I'm still waiting for someone to make a film about Captain Bligh's years as Governor of New South Wales. He was sent to Australia in disgrace, and basically just spent his time being a professional drunkard ribbon cutter who was paid 2000 pounds a year for his troubles. The current Premier of Queensland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Bligh is related to the Captain Bligh.

My brother in Ireland sent me a small news clipping a few weeks ago:

'Four adventurers (loopers?) are setting off in an open boat to recreate the epic voyage of Captain William Bligh, cast adrift from HMS Bounty by mutineers in 1789. Always portrayed as a cruel martinet, Bligh was firm but fair by the standards of the day and his feat of navigating a 45 foot boat to safety without charts or compass is one of seafaring's greatest achievements.

Less well known is Bligh's work on Dublin Harbour. His designs help natural currents scour the port of silt to this day and created Bull Island.'
 

(An acquaintance of mine lived in the top floor of a warehouse in Narrow Street in the dock area of London in the '70s that had a fabulous view of the Thames. It wasn't until I read the Brownlow bio of Lean - who returned to England in the '80s after an exile dating back to 'Summertime' and bought three (it must be nice!) buildings on that street - that I learned that Bligh had lived around the corner and the ship that became the Bounty had been refurbished just downriver from there).

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Hodson 

Sounds like the ideal project for Sir Les Patterson.

...or Dame Edna!

 

I once did some extensive research into Lean's Bounty project - I am fascinated by the subject and even managed to get to Pitcairn Island last year.  Anyway, I have several scripts in my possession: "The Lawbreakers" (dated 10 Oct 1977-23 July 1978; 173 pages).  Another version of "The Lawbreakers" (141 pages). "Pandora's Box" (163 pages).  And "The Saga of HMS Bounty" which is an early combination of the originally planned two films (102 pages). 

From memory, the original idea was utterly brilliant: the picture would have opened with Captain Edward Edwards going to visit William Bligh on Portsmouth Sound.  An embittered Bligh gives Edwards the Bounty's log and when Edwards joins his own ship, HMS Pandora, under orders to seek out and apprehend the mutineers, Edwards reads the log as he sails to the South Seas, his reading becoming a succession of flashbacks to the voyage of the Bounty.

There were also two fascinating little documentaries made about this wonderful project: Lost and Found, which shows Lean and Bolt in Tahiti, getting sidetracked by Eddie Fowlie's discovery at Tautira of one of Captain Cook's anchors.  A later film, A Fated Ship, dealt with the making of the replica Bounty - I think it's currently a floating restaurant in Hong Kong.  The Brando Bounty still does world tours. 

OMG!

That info makes it even more frustrating that it didn't get made - and what a waste! One has to consider cost, of course, but some stories just need time to tell, and a two-parter may have been the only way to do it justice. (Good examples are the latest movie adaptations of Pride and Prejudice and Brideshead Revisited. To compare them to the masterful TV versions makes them seem like a joke, considering the massive amount of plot and delicious characterizations that necessarily had to be abandoned - though I thought the former movie was well made. Brideshead was unwatchable).

May I ask how you got your hands on the scripts? I have the documentaries on VHS somewhere (uncataloged so I'll have to do some digging!).

My wish, if it could be granted in another life, is to see Lean's vision realized, along with Lawrence of Arabia with Brando, Sir David's first choice for the role (long before the incandescent O'Toole was ever heard of!), to see what Brando would have made of it.

I got the screenplays from various sources when I was writing a biography of Robert Bolt.  A wonderful woman called Julie Laird gave me one or two I seem to remember. I tried to get the screenplay published (as was Pinter's Proust for Visconti) but no one was interested and, anyway, the copyright was probably a problem.  Then I thought it might make a wonderful radio play for the BBC.  I do sometimes think of all that amazing effort, the arguments, the agonizing, the money, the tropical torpor and Bolt's stroke and heart attack.  "What a price to pay for a little show of temper" on Lean's part.  

About Lawrence and Brando: I don't think Brando was a serious contender for the role.  In those days Brando got offered every major part - from the title roles in The Apartment and Cleopatra (joke) - and I think Sam Spiegel just wanted to borrow his name for a while, to give his production some publicity.  However, Lean did obviously have the highest regard for Brando and sought him for roles in Ryan's Daughter and Nostromo.  

Adrian-

Thanks for the response. I just ordered your book 'Robert Bolt - Scenes from two lives' through AmazonUK. Only used copies are available through Amazon here in the U.S.

Poor Lean's temper was his own worst enemy and yes, all that effort etc. gone to waste - a tragedy for us all. I doubt, though, that he'd be too keen to have his 70mm, billion dollar dream transposed to a radio play for the BBC, as interesting and all as that might very well be. On the other hand, our imaginations might exceed even Lean's vision, since his would be shackled to the reality of the physically possible - and that cursed budget!

Following that vein, one of my treasures is 'A Man for all Seasons' (have you ever heard of it?...). At least a decade before the dream of home theater became a reality (for those of us who couldn't even afford to rent a 16mm or 35mm version of it - much less purchase one), I bought a double LP of the soundtrack (with DIALOGUE!) of 'Seasons'. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven and practically wore it out. I have to say that, brilliant as the movie is, when it finally came out on video the physical manifestations by the actors didn't quite come up to how I imagined them. But then, that would be a matter of interpretation. (Of course, I've watched it so often now that were I to listen to that LP again I would most likely only visualize those performances).

I can't imagine anyone being more suitable for the part than Scofield, but he tends to be a little stagey at times (understandable, though, since he created the role for the stage and played it eight times a week for months on end, and where a more subtle performance would be lost). But that 'ol camera captures more than the human eye can, and when the result gets thrown onto a huge screen, the slightest false move gets ruthlessly magnified a million times. It's a little simplistically put, but Brando was fundamentally right when he would tell actors, 'Just think the scene and the thought can be photographed' (he failed to add that little things like talent and technique, something he had in abundance, were also 'useful').

Anyway, comparing both performances today, I think Burton should have gotten the Oscar that year for 'Woolf'.

As to whether Brando was a serious contender for 'Lawrence' or not, it's evident from what I've read that Lean, as you say, admired him greatly. Brownlow says that, as 'Nostromo' got closer to the green light, Lean refused all phone calls except the hoped-for one from Brando. (It might be apocryphal, but when Spiegel announced at a press conference in London that Brando would star in 'Lawrence', one wag asked, 'Is this a speaking role?'

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdrianTurner

 

 

In those days Brando got offered every major part - from the title roles in The Apartment and Cleopatra (joke)   

I think Brando as Cleopatra could only have helped that disaster.... ('though Harrison's performance makes the first half bearable for me).
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdrianTurner 

I got the screenplays from various sources when I was writing a biography of Robert Bolt.  A wonderful woman called Julie Laird gave me one or two I seem to remember. I tried to get the screenplay published (as was Pinter's Proust for Visconti) but no one was interested and, anyway, the copyright was probably a problem.  

I've always wondered if there was any interest in Bolt's scripts for Lawrence/Zhivago/RD?   Lawrence will be hitting it's 40th Anniversary soon and there might be a market for it.  I can imagine Lawrence would be difficult to get around the rights issue with Wilson (finally) getting proper credit, but Zhivago and Ryan's Daughter would be terrific to finally have available to its many--and growing--fans.

Visit my site: DavidLean.com

Read my book: David Lean: Interviews

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Harris 

Quote:

Zhivago was published by Random House in 1965, and is generally available used.

I've looked numerous times on eBay and other sites for a copy and never saw one---until today!!  Thanks for the info.  Also, my math is clearly off as Lawrence will be hitting its 50th Anniversary in 2012, not 40th.  (Maybe I'm just wishing I was younger and hoping it wasn't that old.)  Hopefully its anniversary will be welcomed with the Blu-Ray release as well as the potential for another release to general theaters not just art houses.

What's amazing is that, according to Steven Bach's book FINAL CUT, UA dropped the Lean BOUNTY films when it became clear that they'd cost around $30-million for the two films.  This was at the same time that they were developing Michael Cimino's supposed-to-be-$11.6 million HEAVEN'S GATE.  Lean should have just told UA he could make the films for $12-million and then gone over budget like Cimino did  :)

Vincent

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent_P 

What's amazing is that, according to Steven Bach's book FINAL CUT, UA dropped the Lean BOUNTY films when it became clear that they'd cost around $30-million for the two films.  This was at the same time that they were developing Michael Cimino's supposed-to-be-$11.6 million HEAVEN'S GATE.  Lean should have just told UA he could make the films for $12-million and then gone over budget like Cimino did  :)

 

Vincent

...except that Lean's over-budget would undoubtedly have resulted in a masterpiece, swelled the coffers of UA and further enhanced its reputation, while Cimino's dud resulted in its bankruptcy.

I've always felt that Lean's reputation for perfection, aggravated by the cost of Ryan's Daughter and its 'failure' to light up the world, made UA understandably nervous when Lean started talking about a two-parter for Bounty. Ironically, they probably felt that he would indeed have gone over budget, while having no suspicion that Cimino would.


 

Quote:

Originally Posted by owen35 

I've always wondered if there was any interest in Bolt's scripts for Lawrence/Zhivago/RD?   Lawrence will be hitting it's 40th Anniversary soon and there might be a market for it.  I can imagine Lawrence would be difficult to get around the rights issue with Wilson (finally) getting proper credit, but Zhivago and Ryan's Daughter would be terrific to finally have available to its many--and growing--fans.

 

---

Visit my site: DavidLean.com

Read my book: David Lean: Interviews

Love your site, Steve, and thank you for it. RAH's 1989 interview with Cineaste on the Lawrence restoration is a nail-biter - a reminder of how close we came to losing it. Lean's notes on the post-premiere editing of Lawrence are fascinating.

I got Adrian Turner's bio of Robert Bolt. Am in the middle of reading another book so just skimmed through the introduction and acknowledgements section - itself beautifully written and fascinating. I was embarrassed to read that he edited Kevin Brownlow's magnificent bio of Lean - this after quoting the book to him in earlier posts!
 

As an unapologetic lover of HEAVEN'S GATE, I'll disagree with you regarding the film's artistic merits.  But I have to correct one thing- HG did not "bankrupt" UA.  UA was in decent financial shape even with the flop of that film.  What the hysterical over-reaction to HG did was make UA a laughing stock in the eyes of the industry and much of the media, and thus easy prey for a take-over, which is what happened when MGM bought the company from Transamerica.  It may have "destroyed" the company in the sense that it would never be the same after the sale to MGM, but HEAVEN'S GATE did not bankrupt the company.

Vincent
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by marsnkc 

...except that Lean's over-budget would undoubtedly have resulted in a masterpiece, swelled the coffers of UA and further enhanced its reputation, while Cimino's dud resulted in its bankruptcy.

 

Amazing how memory plays tricks, Vincent (not for the first time!). I read 'Final Cut' back in 1995 and the impression that stays with me is that HG bankrupted UA, leading to its downfall.

If ever there was a nail-biter, that book is. I've got it hidden away in one of many uncataloged boxes in the garage but will have to dig it out.

I think I can be forgiven for thinking that HG 'bankrupted' UA. The Wikipedia article on HG quotes the Bach book's title and subtitle as, 'Final Cut: Art, Money, and Ego in the Making of Heaven's Gate, the Film That Sank United Artists'.

While the title doesn't have the word 'bankrupt' in it (the studio still had its Bond, Panther and Rocky franchises) the Wikipedia article on United Artists says, 'The Studio, which was essentially bankrupt following the disaster of Heaven's Gate..........'

United Artists was destroyed the day it was bought by Transamerica. Typical of essentially clueless corporations when it comes to the movie industry (or any industry outside their expertise) they bought it because it was a going concern, then proceeded to destroy it by interference - in this case causing Benjamin and Krim to bail out, prior to HG. Those guys WERE Unitd Artists! (The interferences included objections to the 'X-rated' nature of some of their films, including 'Midnight Cowboy' and 'Last Tango in Paris', resulting in Transamerica having its 'good name' removed from the credits).

Hello Mr. Turner! Thank you for participating in this discussion!

Have you seen the materials regarding the Bounty project in the Melvyn Bragg archives? If so, did you find any substantial new info?

The Bragg files were recently referenced online in a blog dedicated to Harold Pinter and Peggy Ramsay:

 (schttp://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/pinter_archive_blog/2010/02/mutiny-in-the-archives-melvyn-braggs-papers-go-to-leeds.html 

Quote:

Originally Posted by marsnkc 

 

United Artists was destroyed the day it was bought by Transamerica. Typical of essentially clueless corporations when it comes to the movie industry (or any industry outside their expertise) they bought it because it was a going concern, then proceeded to destroy it by interference - in this case causing Benjamin and Krim to bail out, prior to HG. Those guys WERE Unitd Artists! (The interferences included objections to the 'X-rated' nature of some of their films, including 'Midnight Cowboy' and 'Last Tango in Paris', resulting in Transamerica having its 'good name' removed from the credits).

I had read the Transamerica had watched how Paramount had helped the stock price of Gulf & Western since its purchase and went after a couple of studios but ended up with United Artists.  However, Transamerica did not have a Charles Bluhdorm that watched not over Paramount but his other interests carefully and placing the right people in the correct job.  In the end the United Artists had not helped Transamerica's stock at all and more than likely hindered it and they were glad to rid themselves of the problem child.