How to make your Windows Media Center a real HD machine

For those of us who've been using Media Center for a while, it's hard to understate how huge of a shift Windows7 was.  CODECs became built in, and while most of us still "tweak" for many, the fact that they were built in meant easy access to almost all content.  But as Media Center has grown, the community has developed tons of plugins, tools, etc. to do everything that they want.

Some of us use Home Server to store all of our information on (see my review also here) but one thing was lacking: how do we make our Media Centers real HD machines?

Two years ago AMD put out the first platform with native, hardware decoding of Bluray in an onboard chipset (780G) with minimal processor, decoding BD became smooth.  And thanks to several products (Arcsoft's TMT, or PowerDVD, your preference) playing BD within Media Center became possible.  But what the 780G (and later 785G) couldn't do was stream either LPCM or full-format bitstream to a receiver.

Last year, AMD introduced the ATI4xxx series cards, which became the first to pass full 7.1 LPCM channel audio to a receiver.  Close!  Then, at the end of last year, ATI Introduced the 5XXX series cards, and Intel introduced Clarksdale (i3/i5 on H55/H57 platform) chips which allowed for full bitstream audio of DTS-MA / DD-HD.

We haven't had a ton of real HTPC discussion hear because of guidelines, but in the last few weeks, Windows 7, through PDVD, became only the second outlet certified for 3D Bluray specification compliance.

So, I'm going to start this ongoing thread and try to keep it updated, and include pictures, guides, etc. on "tweaking out" a Windows Media Center.  :)

Current Supports (I'll keep adding to this later)
 

Chipset / Card

DD / Digital Out (ST)

True HD

DTS-MA

LPCM

V: 24P (PROP)***

V: DXVA (HW)

V: Type (IGP/PCI-E/AGP)

DirectX

Cost

Available

Software Support

Model(s)

AMD 780G

YES - Over HDMI

NO

NO

2 CH

YES (10.2 CCC)

YES

IGP

10.1

50-100

ITX,ATX,MATX

PDVD, FFD, TMT3

ATI3200

AMD 785G

YES - Over HDMI

NO

NO

2 CH

YES (10.2 CCC)

YES

IGP

10.1

50-100

ATX,MATX (*ITX)

PDVD, FFD, TMT3, Win7 DTV

ATI4200

AMD 890GX

YES - Over HDMI

NO

NO

2 CH

YES (10.2 CCC)

YES

IGP

10.1

120-150

ATX

PDVD, FFD, TMT3, Win7 DTV

ATI4290

AMD760G

Yes*(1) - Over HDMI

NO

NO

2 CH

YES (10.2 CCC)

YES

IGP

10.1

40-70

ITX, MATX, ATX

PDVD, FFD, TMT3

ATI3000

ATI3XXX (PCI-E)

Yes - Over HDMI

NO

NO

2 CH

YES (10.2 CCC)

YES

PCI-E / AGP**

10.1

25-

PCI-E

PDVD, FFD, TMT3, Win7 DTV

-

ATI4XXX (PCI-E)

Yes - Over HDMI / Displayport

NO

NO

7.1 CH

YES (10.2 CCC)

YES

PCI-E

10.1/11**

40-

PCI-E

PDVD, FFD, TMT3, Win7 DTV

ATI5XXX (PCI-E)

Yes - Over HDMI / Displayport

YES

YES

7.1 CH

YES (10.3 CCC)

YES

PCI-E

11

50-

PCI-E

PDVD, FFD, TMT3, Win7 DTV

ATI6XXX (PCI-E)

Yes - Over HDMI / Displayport

YES

YES

7.1 CH

YES 11.3 CCC

YES

PCI-E

11

75-

PCI-E

PDVD, FFD, TMT5, Win7 DTV

AMD Zacate

Yes - Over HDMI

YES

YES

7.1 CH

YES 11.3 CCC

YES

EPU (Processor Based)

11

100-

ITX, MATX

PDVD, FFD, TMT5, Win7 DTV

E350M

Intel Sandy Bridge

Yes - Over HDMI

YES

YES

7.1 CH

NO (2)

YES

IGP / CPU

11

70-

ITX, MATX, ATX

PDVD, FFD, TMT5, Win7 DTV

i3/i5/i7 2XXX Series

Intel G45

NO

NO

NO

NO

NO (2)

NO

IGP

9

DISC

ITX, MATX, ATX

(NO HW) FFD, PDVD

Intel H55/H57 (Clarksdale)

Yes - Over HDMI

YES

YES

7.1CH

NO (2)

YES

IGP / CPU

11

80-

ITX, MATX, ATX

PDVD, FFD, TMT3, Win7 DTV

530/540/650/661

Nvidia ION (NetTop)

YES - Over HDMI

NO

NO

2 CH

YES

YES

IGP / ATOM

10.1

80-

ITX, MATX

PDVD, FFD, TMT3

Nvidia 9XXX Chipset (INTEL)

YES - Over HDMI

NO

NO

2 CH

YES

YES

IGP

10.1

80-

MATX, ATX

PDVD, FFD, TMT3, Win7 DTV

Nvidia 8XXX Chipset (AMD)

YES - Over HDMI

NO

NO

2 CH

YES

YES

IGP

10.1

50-

MATX, ATX, (*iTX)

PDVD, FFD, TMT3, Win7 DTV

Nvidia 9XXX Video Cards

NO ** (SPDIF Passthrough)

NO

NO

2 CH

YES

YES

IGP

10.1

35-

PCI-E

PDVD, FFD, TMT3, Win7 DTV

Nvidia GT/GTX100 Series

YES - Yes (HDMI or PT)

NO

NO

7.1 CH**

YES

YES

PCI-E

11

35-

PCI-E

PDVD, FFD, TMT3, Win7 DTV

Nvidia GT/GTX200 Series

YES - Over HDMI / Displayport

YES***

YES***

7.1 CH

YES

YES

PCI-E

11

35-

PCI-E

PDVD, FFD, TMT3, Win7 DTV

Nvidia GT/GTX4XX Series

Yes - Over HDMI / Displayport

YES

YES

7.1 CH

YES

YES

PCI-E

11

150-

PCI-E

PDVD, FFD, TMT3, Win7 DTV,

Nvidia GT/GTX5XX Series

Yes - Over HDMI / Displayport

YES

YES

7.1 CH

YES

YES

PCI-E

11

300-

PCI-E

PDVD, FFD, TMT5, Win7 DTV

Notes:

(1) 760G does not have a native Audio encoder per say, pass through is by onboard audio over SPDIF through HDMI.
(2) Intel has announced they do not believe that there is any issue/they have no planned support for 24P fix for their hardware.  So, this will never be resolved, AFAIK
(3) Nvidia 9XXX Video cards do not have native Audio Encoder, and pass through SPDIF via Internal loop cable, or the user must connect optical/coax from MB

(4) Later revisions of the GT2X and GT4X series Nvidia cards correctly pass DTS-MA/DD-HD

(5) Driver listed is the base driver to complete these functions.  It's assumed later drivers retain functionality.

Will update as we go along.  Updated: 4/28/2011

SOFTWARE SUPPORT
 

SOFTWARE	32 Bit	64 Bit	DTSMA	TrueHD	LPCM	MKV Support	Play From Folder	DXVA	BD-3D
Windows 7 Def	Y	Y	NO	NO	??	NO*	YES (DVD)	Y	N
FFDShow 32	Y	N	YES**	YES**	YES**	YES**	YES**	Y	N
FFDShow 64	N	Y	YES**	YES**	YES**	YES**	YES**	Y	N
Arcsoft TMT3	Y	N	NO(2)	YES	YES	YES***	YES	Y	N
Power DVD 10	Y	N	NO(2)	YES	YES	NO	NO	Y	Y
Arcsoft TMT5	Y	N	YES	YES	YES	YES	***	Y	Y
PowerDVD 11	Y	N	YES	YES	YES	YES**	***	Y	Y

* Windows 7 will decode content inside of an MKV (Container) it just needs a splitter, whether that's Haali or Gabest
** FFDShow is simply a CODEC manager.  It will support DTSMA is experimental.  TrueHD requires Hardware Support (see above), MKV requires a splitter .. Haali or Gabest

*** Arcsoft TMT3 originally supported MKV.   That feature has been removed.  Updates to the software may break that feature.

(2) Arsoft & PowerDVD10 at current both downmix the DTSMA signal to just the CORE, or when presented over LPCM 7.1, it remixes the rear channels from 5.1 (PDVD) which is not accurate.

List of Resources no HTPC Owner should be without:

www.Hack7MC.Com - links, guides, and tools to managing Windows 7 Media Center

TheGreenButton.Com - The Green Button, Microsoft's now official sponsored forum for tools for Media Center. 

MediaBrowser.TV - Media Browser, One of the best tools for quickly and easily organizing movies, TV, trailers, and podcasts into Media Center.

MyTV.SenseitWeb.Com - for those of us that save and organize TV, MyTV provides the easiest way, it also manages extraction and imports guide based metadata for easy organization, search, genre and que systems.  (Development)

Who says all Media Centers need to look the same?  Feel free to trick yours out with your own graphics/designs, thanks to Media Center Studio: http://www.adventmediacenter.com/

Want something really slick?  Try RemotePotato.  Fat Attitude's tool allows you to see your EPG from anywhere that has a web browser, using Silverlight you can set what you want to record while away, and now, in new versions, you can watch what you've recorded from anywhere.



Of course, make sure to grab plugins for NetFlix, if you're a subscribe it's worth it. 

Yes.  Though it will cost you some small money.  Mine programmed flawlessly, but a friend's didn't.  I also believe Logitech has the MCE info for download and update now, so you can do that.

But it's much easier if you want it to learn to use the Media Center keyboard (about $27 anywhere) to program it rather then the MCE remote.

It's actually a bug in how the receivers detect the signal.  TMT (and no card) can pass 7 channels on the 4xxx series cards, because they don't have an audio codec to do it.. though they will do 7.1LPCM.  But they will pass the 640k "high rate" AC3 and DTS, which causes a lot of receivers to indicate wrong.. :(

So far, only the ATI5000 series, and Intel's H55 are the only display adapters/IGPs that are DTS-MA/TrueHD compliant.  The ATI 4350 is nothing to sneeze at.  For the most part, the output gets you 8 channel audio (LPCM) and 5 channel core at high bit rate. http://www.anandtech.com/show/2630/2

The H55/H57 is a motherboard option.

As to your other: nope!  The ATI 5450 is a single slot, fanless solution which passes DTS-MA/DD-HD, and it doesn't have any power supply requirements.  It's a cheap card also, ou can find them in the $40-$55 range.  I should also add that unlike many other cards, it also properly flags DTS-EX (6.1) and DD-Plus (6.1) steams from DVD, which are often reduced in many other SPDIF implementations.  

 

Better, the 5450 will correctly pass 24P, and will also pass 120hz for full compatibility.  Great mix of all the standards at dirt cheap cost.

Parker, here you go: $44 card that does what you're after:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121365&cm_re=5450-_-14-121-365-_-Product

Unfortunately ATI's site hasn't updated to give the right information on the evergreen cards ;(  But the 4xxx series isn't bad.  It has the same video renderer, and outside of passing those two formats (which even though it does, it's still tricky) it does everything else.

But this summer people running MCE will get access to a few REALLY cool items which I think will stay in Windows 7 SP1, but may be seperate.  But there are some REALLY great tie ins something this summer that I think will really work out.

While I can't speak about two of them (damnit) there is one that I think is pretty public knowledge, and that's going to be the league and monitoring management options within media center for Fantasy Football players before the season.  And that is going to rock every FFL players socks.

CURRENT RECOMMENDS FOR BUDGETTING OF A HOME THEATER PC.  Just to note: yes, you can run a HTPC on much less, but I consider that in order to be a HTPC, the following standards must be met:

1.Must provide HDMI connectivity.
2.Must output 1080P and support DXVA hardware acceleration of HD Formats
3.Must output at least DD/DTS Core formats.
4.All of these also list assume the basic $29 Microsoft Media Center Remote Control.

BASIC:  $500 OR LESS

AMD 880G: A reliable HDMI output ready motherboard which supports DXVA, full HD, and DTS/DD core over HDMI.  Also onboard 8 channel audio for LPCM decoding if preferred.  $65.

AMD X2-250 Dual Core CPU: Dual core is more then enough to decode all of your movies, video, and content without ever feeling slow.  It also gives you enough "oomph" to do basic recoding in the background.  $60.

2GB DDR 2 Memory (many brands/types/etc.) normally available for about $25
500GB SATA: (many types) $44
Standard DVDRW: $22

 

Case: Silverstone GD4: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163158&cm_re=micro_atx_htpc-_-11-163-158-_-Product  ($99) Great case, available in many places has great look and works.

Power Supply: HEC base ATX: $22.00
 

Windows 7 Home Premium 32 or 64bit: $99

 

This is your cheapest option AT THIS POINT that I would recommend.


Next: Super-Mini

 

AMD has upped the ballgame with its new super-mini for HTPC.   That's the AMD Zacate.   Using about 18W of energy, this is a low power unit that passes DTS-MA/DD-HD or LPCM over HDMI.   Single board with processor in a MicroATX Format can be found for around $130.    This accomplishes everything and does it with so low of power usage that it's definitely a strong consider.   If you are looking for something super cheap + energy efficient + 1080P ready then this may be the right solution.

 

Stepping Up: The Full Monty HTPC

If you're going to spend on HTPC, you're either going to get a seperated video card (I recommend the ATI 5770 or up) or you'll look at this solution.   That's Intel's Sandy Bridge.   Now that Intel has fixed their issues with chipset, a 2400K (K is IMPORTANT here, it's the difference between HD2000 and HD3000 video).  

 

Using a 2400K Processor plus H65/H67 board, you get: DTS-MA, DD-HD, LPCM output over HDMI, Hardware accelerated 3D BD support, and normally enough slots to handle your media cards and components.  Keep your other configurations basically in line (4 Gig of RAM and 500GB should be the baseline, more if you are going to save a lot of TV, a lot more if you don't plan on using a NAS or WHS)

 

 

 

This week I'm going to go through the build outs on an AMD Zacate plus the build on an Intel  :)

 

THIS LIST IS UPDATED 4/2/2011

I had waited for some time because there was a planned release of a product I wanted to include for the mid-level unit, but it appears as though Intel will not get their H55/H57 chipset issue ever fixed with regards to how it puts out HD video.  This is a significantly screwup, and it's hard to recommend it as a mid-level box.  Most had been hopeful for something like this in the mid level, but without driver fixes coming, it's out.

So, I'll work on some listings for that.  But before I post up some mid-levels, here are some new things that are coming to MCE users this summer:

* For those that use NetFlix on Demand Via Silverlight, Netflix is preparing 720P, 5.1 Audio "On Demand" options for Media Center.   Updates are likely this summer.

If you're an iPhone fan (and we have a large Mac base here) but you run MCE for it's many niceties, there's an app for that:

 

It's not that MS doesn't support it, it's that at the time of shipment (and even now) the licensing cost for it is fairly steep.  But don't worry, you don't have to spend a ton!

If you bought your PC with an LG burner, and they didn't give you the software (free) then you got ripped off.  LG normally ships with an OEM copy of PowerDVD BD edition free, with every single drive. 

 

If you got ripped and they didn't give you that software (which, like I said, should come with every LG drive, I've checked everywhere online, they all do)  then you can grab the software that should have come with it for about $25:

 

http://www.infotechnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=7300&s=froogle

 

I do love the "I can't believe MS left out support.." then again, no other platform out there can even work with the drive media at all :)

yeah, sometimes NewEgg etc. sells ultra-bare OEM.  :(  It's a good way to help make the product cheaper.  But yes, normally they get bundled with it.

BD Edition is to be included exclusively with the purchase of a drive.

But a lot of places will sell it seperately.

For those that use it, MediaBrowser 2.4.4 was released today.  An oranizational plugin for Media Center, you're talking about something that is really pretty incredible.

 

http://www.mediabrowser.tv

Some of the new features are some nice things:  Search by an actor or director, and it will show you all TV and Movies that they are in that you may have in your collection. 

Better integration of WTV/DVR-MS (Microsoft's format it uses for DVR Purposes)

Newer folder by folder Parental Controls (select a PIN is needed to view anything PG-13/R or whatever rated or higher, and the ability to lock specific folders to keep kids out without parental PIN)

Localization support for multi-language modes or international use

 

 

I'm going to revive this thread.   Monday, I'm going to start a build using a Ceton CableCard adapter, and I figure I can just record it and show how this works on a micro box.   FlipHD camera at the ready, we can go through the whole process ;)

 

So, we're going to do two builds at the same time.    The first is an AMD Zacata, and the other is a H61 Intel.   I started taking videos today, I'll have to edit out a lot of fumbling around and reduce for time.  

We're going to keep track of not only expected costs, but I'll try to get some video and setup information so people know compatibilities. :) Any suggestions of things people want to see?