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a ? about HEAT: are they really truly in the same scene together?  

post #1 of 3
3/14/10 at 9:11am
Thread Starter 


I have looked at previous posts on this subject and come up empty, so I'm starting a new one. My topic here is the Michael Mann film HEAT. Of course "the film marks the first time that legendary actors Al Pacino and Robert De Niro starred together on the big screen" (that's from Herb Kane's review post for the 2-disc SE DVD).

But I just watched the movie again (for the umpteenth time) yesterday, and I have to say: There is absolutely no establishing shot, medium shot, or anything that places both DeNiro and Pacino in the same frame at the same time. (One tiny exception: When Pacino pulls DeNiro over, the camera is in the car shooting past DeNiro's face up toward Pacino's face... but this could be green-screened in later -- DeNiro never once actually looks at Pacino -- the same way the panoramic city view is green-screened in early scenes.)
 

I have not seen the SE edition. I have not heard Mann's commentary track. I have not watched the extra featurette about "Pacino And De Niro: The Conversation." I have nothing but the actual film to draw from.


SO MY QUESTION: Is this really really truly "the first time that legendary actors Al Pacino and Robert De Niro starred together on the big screen"? Are they ever really really truly in the same scene any moreso than they "are" in GODFATHER II?


Can someone tell me that Mann says in the commentary that, yes, there is an establishing medium shot, maybe in a deleted scene? Still images of the two together at the table, both in the same picture at the same time? Can you screen-grab the establishing shot, maybe I missed it after all these years? 


Is it? REALLY? Help! 

MC

 

post #2 of 3
3/14/10 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micah Cohen View Post


I have looked at previous posts on this subject and come up empty, so I'm starting a new one. 
 


You've really looked? Including at the entry for Heat on Blu-ray in the product database? 'Cause there's a copy of the HTF review there, which has the following (also available in the review thread):

Quote:
Pacino and De Niro: The Conversation (12:02). Interviews with Mann, Pacino and De Niro about the famous (or, depending on your point of view, infamous) diner scene in which Hanna and McCauley make each other’s acquaintance. Essential viewing for those wondering whether the two actors did the scene together (they did) or played off of each other (they did). A further entertaining detail emerges in the "Scene of the Crime" featurette described below: An employee of the restaurant where the scene was filmed says the question most asked her is whether Al Pacino and Robert De Niro were really there together (they were).
 
The reality is that the two actors do share the frame constantly throughout the scene, and it’s likely that Michael Mann never dreamed that controversy would later dog the film simply because their faces aren’t visible simultaneously in the same shot. That happens all the time in movies, and no one thinks twice about it. Mann’s number one concern, as he clearly indicates here, was capturing the simultaneous performances of two actors whose reactions to each other were so alive and immediate that every nuance on every take was different. That’s why it was mostly a single take (take 11) that ended up in the film.
 

 


Associated with either the product entry or the review thread is a link to RAH's thread on the Heat Blu-ray, which contains additional discussion and debate of this scene. So, since there's already extensive posting on the subject, how about picking it up in an existing discussion?
post #3 of 3
3/14/10 at 1:44pm
I can't say for sure I remember about what was said about the diner scene. I seem to recall that there is some material that that places them together, but you've obviously looked at it more recently than me.

However, many seem to forget about the final scene in the film

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
where Pacino is holding DeNiro as he is dying
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Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › DVD › a ? about HEAT: are they really truly in the same scene together?