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The Pacific

post #1 of 64
3/13/10 at 9:00pm
Thread Starter 
I'm surprised there isn't a thread for this already.

The first episode of "The Pacific" airs Sunday night (the 14th) on HBO.  Remember that it's also daylight savings time again, so double-check any PVR recordings you have set up.

Personally, I can't wait.  If the show is even half as good as "Band of Brothers," it will still be one of the best things ever on television.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Band of Brothers
Band of Brothers [Blu-ray]
The Pacific (HBO Miniseries) [Blu-ray]
post #2 of 64
3/14/10 at 4:18am
I'm actually interested in seeing this series. 
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post #3 of 64
3/15/10 at 2:17am
where was the character development that made me fan of Band of Brothers from episode 1? 

amazing production values though.
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post #4 of 64
3/15/10 at 9:06am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam_S View Post

where was the character development that made me fan of Band of Brothers from episode 1? 

amazing production values though.

Personally, I think it's a little too early to have actual character delopment, over just a single episode.  I would find that pretty unbelievable.  Further, I don't think BoB actually had it either in the first episode, but rather focused on character *introduction,* something that was missing from The Pacific in a way.

However, I don't slight the show for this.  BoB was mainly concerned with showing us the brotherhood that develops between soldiers in close combat situations, so we were thrust into boot camp with Easy Company, given heroes and their names, heck, we were even given a villain of sorts.

The Pacific Theatre was quite different than the war in Europe, and I think that's one of the things The Pacific is going to show.  Also, the series seems to be focused less on the Marines as a group, and more on a few individuals, showcasing the effect war has on the human psyche.  The show is based on what are arbuably the two greatest American military memoirs (With the Old Breed an Helmet for My Pillow), so I'm sure we'll see a few highly personal stories, rather than a picture of the Marines as a whole.

As far as the first episode goes, I thought it was great.  I especially liked how it started on the home front.  In BoB, we got a few stories here and there about girlfriends, brothers, et cetera, but The Pacific showed us the families.  I found the two scenes with the fathers particularly great.

All of the stuff at Gaudalcanal and Tenaru were stellar.  They did a good job of showing a few ways in which the Pacific Theatre differed from Europe.  An enemy seemingly endless in number, crashing into the Marines like waves on a boat hull.  Stranger still was the Japanese unwillingness to surrender, instead hoping to kill just one more enemy if possible--the scene where the soldier blew himself up after being found was something widespread.

The part where the soldiers taunted the last remaining Japanese soldier was the best part of the episode.  The frusteration and anger on his face, the vocal barbs from the Marines, the killing shot from Leckie.  It was a very different war, and this scene showed it.

My only real issue was with my HBO feed.  My centre channel was *very* low in volume, and I struggled to hear about half of the dialogue.
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post #5 of 64
3/15/10 at 10:34am
I loved it.

Production and visual FX are amazing.
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post #6 of 64
3/15/10 at 12:46pm
The Pacific will focus on three real Marines.  I read the bio on one of them - his story was incredible.  I'll leave out any spoilers but just mention that he first joined the Army in 1939, didn't see any action, and turned around and joined the Marines.
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post #7 of 64
3/15/10 at 4:08pm
fantastic episode! this will be superb on bluray!
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post #8 of 64
3/15/10 at 7:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam_S View Post

where was the character development that made me fan of Band of Brothers from episode 1? 
 

I've yet to see this, but based on Band of Brothers, I'd answer "the same place where it was in Band of Brothers": Characters in Band of Brothers didn't come into their own until a some episodes in. I remember that being one of the chief complaint leveled at that show in it's early episodes "great stuff but kinda hard to figure out the characters!"

--
H
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post #9 of 64
3/15/10 at 10:27pm
It was OK But the Actors in BOB could'nt be beat.Loved the Guy that went  on to be in "life" and Ron Livingston was good also.Plus maybe it's from My Homicide Days I Loathe Jon Seda.
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post #10 of 64
3/16/10 at 12:05am

HBO has the first episode available via streaming at their web site. The quality very good but I have FIOS so there was plenty of bandwidth. You do have to register to see it (free).

Also, their player was a little weird with FireFox. The full screen setting wasn't full screen. However it worked fine in IE.

-Keith

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post #11 of 64
3/16/10 at 6:02am
Fully enjoyed the premiere and the look at the 3 leads at home.  I felt this episode got the series off to a good start and I am eagerly awaiting the next episode.

Doug
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post #12 of 64
3/16/10 at 6:02am
Outstanding television. Ready for part two.  Pacific is based on two books by two of the characters we met last night, one being the kid with the heart murmur, and we've already seen pics of him in a helmet so he gets out there somehow. What a contrast in settings, though! BoB - yeah they had foxholes and snow and stuff, but they also had time in french villages, etc.  These guys are plopped down in the nastiest tropical conditions imaginable. I know a fellow who was a Seabee in WWII who tells of a time when, during an attack by the Japanese on his unit, he was buried alive when a bomb went off near his position, and it was several days before they found and uncovered him.
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post #13 of 64
3/16/10 at 1:38pm
Loved the first episode, can't wait for more.
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post #14 of 64
3/17/10 at 10:22am
I have become an avid fan of WWII history over
the years, watching as many documentaries that
I can get my hands on.  The best documentaries

I have seen is KEN BURNS "THE WAR" and

"WWII IN HD COLOR."

 

The best dramatization I have ever seen is BAND

OF BROTHERS.  You can imagine how much I
have been looking forward to its follow-up, THE

PACIFIC.

Excellent series premier.  Loved the backstory
and the effects are outstanding. 

Here is what worries me...

The war in the Pacific was brutal.  The Japanese
dug themselves in hard and that war went on from
Island to Island seemingly forever.

I don't know how I can best explain this, but I
am wondering if the limitations in scenery (being
one jungle Island after another) is going to slow
the pacing of the story. 

My fears are probably unimportant here as I am
certain the human story will take center stage.

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post #15 of 64
3/17/10 at 12:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

I have become an avid fan of WWII history over
the years, watching as many documentaries that
I can get my hands on.  The best documentaries

I have seen is KEN BURNS "THE WAR" and

"WWII IN HD COLOR."

 


Slightly off-topic, but have you ever checked out "The World at War?"  As military historian (well, former, I'm currently changing career paths :)  ), I consider it my personal favourite doc. on The Second World War.  If you haven't watched it, and you have 22 hours just waiting to be spent, give it a shot.  "The First World War," based off of the excellent work of Hew Strachan, is probably my favourite doc. of the First World War.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_at_War

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0426688/
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post #16 of 64
3/17/10 at 2:07pm
"The World at War?"

highly recommend - but a harrowing watch ;)

I watched the entire DVD box set last year over about a week, and it left a big impression on me

BOB on Blu-Ray is a stunning watch, highly recommend

the Pacific has definitely got me excited!!
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post #17 of 64
3/17/10 at 8:33pm
If you have DirecTV, they are showing The Pacific on their channel 101 HD. You don't have to subscribe to HBO to watch the show. Looks like they are showing it the Wednesday night after the Sunday premiere on HBO.

Gotta love DirecTV. I thought I was going to have to wait till this came out on blu-ray to watch it.

Doug
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post #18 of 64
3/18/10 at 4:52am
Quote:
 have you ever checked out "The World at War?"


Been wanting to watch this forever. Probably
will at some point.  Heard it is very bias towards
the European viewpoint of the war.
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post #19 of 64
3/21/10 at 9:01pm
Thread Starter 
Wow.  The battle scene in episode two was amazing.  The characters are getting fleshed out more, despite lacking large amounts of dialogue.  Also, the two episodes have really highlighted what set the Pacific Theatre apart from Europe.
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post #20 of 64
3/22/10 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Heard it is very bias towards the European viewpoint of the war.
 

Well, it is specifically told from the British point of view, which is hardly surprising given that it is a British production made largely by and for people who had personally experienced the war, drawn mostly from British archival sources and overseen by British historians. (I'm sure neither the French or the Russians greeted the series with unalloyed joy over the way they were depicted.  Ironically, of all the major participants in the war the Germans probably have the least cause to complain about their treatment in WaW.  But then the Brits, especially the British military, have always had that "professional respect across the trench lines" feeling about the Germans, something notably lacking in their attitude towards the French and the Yanks.   I remember reading a line from a - British - book once that said, "Erwin Rommell was unquestionably the Brit's favorite enemy general of WWII.  The Americans do not seem to have had one.")  

Most American documentaries on the war are similarly "biased", if that's the word you choose, towards the American point of view.  I can only assume that French, Russian and German documentaries about the war similarly tell the story mostly through the eyes of French, Russian or German politicians, soldiers and civilians.  It is simply the nature of the beast. 

All in all I think The World at War is an extraordinary achievement, with no more than the usual transatlantic misunderstanding and confusion.  (Some of the problems arise less from British bias than from simple ignorance about Americans and how things work over here.)  As I recall Monty comes off rather better than I think he would in a more objective work, and Patton and Eisenhower rather worse - but the reverse is true of many American documentaries, which often give short shrift to our allies in general. 

I would no more avoid WaW because of its British perspective than I would Ken Burns The War or Band of Brothers because tell American stories from an American perspective and don't depict what the British, Canandians, French and Russians were up to.

You pays your money and you takes your choice. 

Regards,

Joe
Edited by Joseph DeMartino - 3/22/10 at 5:20pm
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post #21 of 64
3/22/10 at 1:25pm
Thread Starter 
Not to verge further off-topic, but The World at War isn't specifically told from the British point of view.  In fact, it goes out of its way to cover as many aspects of the conflict as possible (without becoming hundreds of hours long, of course).  Sure, a lot of the *footage* is British in origin, but to be honest, it's pretty absent of many of the tell-tale signs of British historical bias you see in most BBC docs.

As a military historian, I consider it about as balanced as a doc. from the 70s could be.  Interviews come from German soldiers, Japanese officials, British officers and historians, American historians, Prime Ministers, Generals, Admirals, even Himmler's adjutant.  Given the era and the target audience, the production goes out of its way to avoid picking a true point of view.

If anything, I would say it's more accurate to say The World at War focuses on the Eurpean *theatre,* not the European viewpoint.  This was mostly due to a lack of proper primary sources from the Pacific Theatre.  I honestly think that if this doc. was remade today, it would be twice as long, with about-equal attention paid to both continental war zones.
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post #22 of 64
3/22/10 at 2:27pm
Quote:
In fact, it goes out of its way to cover as many aspects of the conflict as possible  

Oh, I didn't mean to suggest that it doesn't.  But the fact remains that it was written, produced and edited by British subjects and this fact had to inform their approach to the subject matter and I think it does.  To suggest otherwise would be to suggest that the filmmakers were something more (or less) than human.  I think they strove mightily for a "European" approach (to ensure foreign sales in addition to nobler reasons), and for objectivity, but don't forget that the U.K. has had at least as ambiguous a relationship with the idea (and reality) of "Europe" as it has had with France and Germany.  ("Fog closes Channel.  Continent cut off." )   

Regards,

Joe
Edited by Joseph DeMartino - 3/22/10 at 5:17pm
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post #23 of 64
3/22/10 at 3:17pm
Thread Starter 
When you said "British point of view," I took that to mean a strong bias, not towards their side of the conflict, but rather their *interpretation* of the events.  Quite clearly it is impossible to escape a degree of bias in history (unless you are simply listing dates of "one damn thing after another").  However, people sometimes use the term "point of view," in reference to a historical document, to mean "beware, as some of the facts might not be as they are portrayed."

Some reviews of The World at War say it largely ignores the Pacific theatre, and they literally mean that that is like saying the Pacific wasn't important.  This isn't the case.

What I am saying is that the doc. is mostly free of biased interpretation of events.  Biased selection of which events to focus on?  Definitely.
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post #24 of 64
3/22/10 at 7:51pm
7 of the 26 episodes of The World at War specifically focus on the Pacific theater. Other episodes may bring up the Pacific as it relates to the war in Europe. However remember that even those planning the war, IE Roosevelt and Churchill, felt that the European theater should take precedence over the Pacific, at least early in the war.

I think the documentary does tend to be biased toward the British point of view because it was made by Brits. Just as American documentaries are biased toward the American point of view. There is nothing wrong with that I and personally find it interesting to see that view point.

Doug
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post #25 of 64
3/22/10 at 10:56pm
Back to "The Pacific" the second episode was so freakin' intense!!!!!!!
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post #26 of 64
3/28/10 at 11:19pm
This series is definitely more personal then "Band of Brothers", but that's not good or bad, it's just different.  I have to say, the pacing in this show is very good.  The way they play the entire shore leave sequences was very good.
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post #27 of 64
3/29/10 at 2:01am
Agree.   From an Aussie perspective, great realism.
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post #28 of 64
3/29/10 at 5:14am
Loved part two much more than the first.

Had my audio system cranked and the subwoofer had
my room rumbling loudly during the jungle bombing crusade.

Really enjoying this series.  Looking forward to part three
which looks like it will be taking place mostly stateside.
 
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post #29 of 64
3/29/10 at 8:57am
Thread Starter 
This episode was stellar.  It really served to show the effects the war had on non-combatants, even those who didn't even have loved ones in the war.  It's important to remember that the Marines spent more time in Australia than Easy Company did in Europe in Band of Brothers (D-Day was June 6 1944, final episode was around May 1945, if I recall).  They were on leave for a long time--December 1942 until September 1943.  The effects this had on new girlfriends, wives, mothers-to-be, and the soldiers, can't be stressed enough.
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post #30 of 64
3/31/10 at 12:39am

It sounds like I may be in a minority here, but so far I prefer Band of Brothers.  Don't get me wrong, The Pacific is great, just that BoB was better.  The way BoB was structured, to start off with their initial training, moving to England and preparing for D-Day, before D-Day itself and the campaigns thereafter, seemed to work better in character development, and in allowing us to learn something about them before seeing them face mortal danger, thereby making us more invested in their survival (or not).  In contrast, with The Pacific we were thrown in the deep end in Ep 1, even deeper in Ep 2, before Ep 3 finally allowed us to catch up a bit, especially with Leckie and his 'entanglement'.

Also, I suppose BoB just set such a high bar that anything new and unfamiliar was bound to be viewed differently.  I'll have to review this opinion again once The Pacific is done.

Otherwise, I agree with Josh, Leckie's doomed-from-the-beginning affair with Stella was heartbreaking.  I hope for their sakes he ultimately made it back to Melbourne and married her (I know, read the book, get the answer immediately.  I'm avoiding spoilers...  )

Basilone a Medal of Honor winner?  That has got to annoy Jon Seda-hating Dave... but seriously, nice to see Basilone get recognition, yet still want to do goofy stuff when out on the town, with his buddy having to rein him in from stealing the MP's jeep -- what a bone-headed thing to want to do for any sergeant, never mind a MOH winner.

As an aside, Dick Winters in BoB probably should have won an MOH as well, but back then they had some sort of 'quota' of only one MOH per unit per action (not sure what size unit, maybe even division), and someone else won it.  There's an online campaign to have Winters' decoration retrospectively upgraded to MOH.

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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Band of Brothers
Band of Brothers [Blu-ray]
The Pacific (HBO Miniseries) [Blu-ray]