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Holy Blu-ray Batman

post #1 of 24
3/9/10 at 4:41am
Thread Starter 
 I bought a theater in a box for my new samsung 52" LCDTV last year. (the Samsung HT-AS730ST) I've been really disappointed with the sound UNTIL LAST NIGHT! I just bought a Play Station 3. The theater sound coming out of that theater-in-a-box was most awesome. Night and Day! WOW.....! It sounded like a new, $2000 system.

So, what gives? Why can't I get high def movies from my cable company to sound like blu-ray?

Thanks all!

Craig
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post #2 of 24
3/9/10 at 5:25am
Blu ray movies have HD audio (uncompressed) soundtracks, most of the time. TV doesn't. If your system isn't capable of the HD audio, and you're just playing the DD and DTS tracks over optical or digital coax cables, you're getting a higher bitrate of those from blu ray, than what you get from tv. You should still get pretty decent sound from cable tv though. Go into the cable box settings, and make sure the audio output is set to "Dolby Digital". Only HD channels, some premium movie channels (HBO, Starz, etc.), and some PPV channels broadcast in 5.1 surround. All the rest will be in stereo. You can set the receiver to Dolby Pro Logic II, and hear the stereo channels in simulated surround though. Doesn't sound too bad.
BTW......how do you have the audio from cable box connected to surround system?

I found your manual online, at Samsung's site. Your receiver does not decode the HD audio. You may be able to set the ps3 to output audio as LPCM or PCM, and get the HD audio that way, over HDMI. I'm not sure. I couldn't find anything in the manual about it. The manual says to connect a blu ray player by optical. HD audio isn't possible that way.

Your receiver also has 7.1 multi-channel analog inputs. If you get a blu ray player with the 7.1 multi-channel analog outputs, you can get the HD audio that way. PS3 isn't capable of this, since it doesn't have those outputs.
Good luck!
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post #3 of 24
3/9/10 at 5:35am
 It's simple:

The two most prominent audio encodes for Blu-ray are
* Dolby TrueHD (A "lossless" format)

* DTS-HD MA (Also a "lossless" format)

You're just not going to get that kind of quality sound off cable or satellite ...

 

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post #4 of 24
3/10/10 at 5:27am
Thread Starter 
 Thank-you Ed Moxley! You have provided me with information that is not available to the average consumer from the product manual (without the ability to interpret anyway).

If I buy a high def receiver that decodes HD audio from my cable provider, I'll end up with sound like I had through my PS3?


Thanks again!!!!


Craig
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post #5 of 24
3/10/10 at 5:29am
Thread Starter 
Oh, but it will be better than the audio I'm currently getting? ..since I'm not receiving HD audio?

Thanks for your help Joseph.....  Rock on!  


Craig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Bolus View Post

 It's simple:

The two most prominent audio encodes for Blu-ray are
* Dolby TrueHD (A "lossless" format)

* DTS-HD MA (Also a "lossless" format)

You're just not going to get that kind of quality sound off cable or satellite ...

 



 
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post #6 of 24
3/10/10 at 5:59am
 The biggest impact to your sound is your speakers.  Replacing your HTiB speakers will do more for your sound than anything else you can do.  This may not be possible with your setup since many HTiB's have proprietary connections and non-standard impedance.  Just getting a receiver capable of decoding HD formats will not make bad speakers sound better (it can make good speakers better).


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post #7 of 24
3/10/10 at 6:56am
Thread Starter 

I agree with you completely David... BUT.....!

The same HTiB speakers sounded awesome when I connected my blu-ray player and watched a blu-ray movie... it was NIGHT AND DAY different...... same speakers.... if I though I could get that sound from my present speakers by just changing out my amplifier, I would..... spending another $1000 on the speakers I want is not an option at this time... maybe later.... right now I'm satisfied with my speakers, it is the source audio that is compromised (High Def cable TV).

Thanks David,
Craig



Quote:
Originally Posted by David Willow View Post

 The biggest impact to your sound is your speakers.  Replacing your HTiB speakers will do more for your sound than anything else you can do.  This may not be possible with your setup since many HTiB's have proprietary connections and non-standard impedance.  Just getting a receiver capable of decoding HD formats will not make bad speakers sound better (it can make good speakers better).

 


 
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post #8 of 24
3/10/10 at 1:38pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by gawain View Post
If I buy a high def receiver that decodes HD audio from my cable provider, I'll end up with sound like I had through my PS3?
 As David said, the speakers are most important. They will determine how much difference you hear between the HD audio, and regular DD and DTS.

There are no high def receivers, from your cable provider, that decodes HD audio. Cable, sat, nor tv, broadcast HD audio to decode. Only blu ray (and HD DVD) movies have the HD audio. A/V receivers from online stores, or local stores, is what it will take.

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post #9 of 24
3/11/10 at 2:16pm
Thread Starter 
What I meant to say Ed was, if I buy an A/V receiver from, say, Best Buy, that is a home theater, state of the art, A/V receiver, will I be able to listen to essentially the same high def sound that I got from my PS3?  Sorry to draw this out... I'm just not sure I understand...


thanks,

Craig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Moxley View Post



 As David said, the speakers are most important. They will determine how much difference you hear between the HD audio, and regular DD and DTS.

There are no high def receivers, from your cable provider, that decodes HD audio. Cable, sat, nor tv, broadcast HD audio to decode. Only blu ray (and HD DVD) movies have the HD audio. A/V receivers from online stores, or local stores, is what it will take.
 



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post #10 of 24
3/11/10 at 3:20pm
Yes, you should be able to............
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post #11 of 24
3/11/10 at 4:11pm
 Now I am confused....

The ONLY place you can find DTS HD and Dolby TrueHD is on BluRay discs (OK, technically you can do this on HD DVD as well, but that format is dead).  You will not get anything more from your cable/sat box with a new receiver.
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post #12 of 24
3/11/10 at 4:32pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by David Willow View Post

 Now I am confused....

The ONLY place you can find DTS HD and Dolby TrueHD is on BluRay discs (OK, technically you can do this on HD DVD as well, but that format is dead).  You will not get anything more from your cable/sat box with a new receiver.
His last question wasn't about cable. We covered that already.
Quote:
will I be able to listen to essentially the same high def sound that I got from my PS3?
With an A/V receiver that decodes the HD audio formats, he should be able to listen to the high def sound he can get from his ps3.............

gawain....... you might want to check out Amazon.com for a receiver. Their prices are gonna be better than Best Buy most of the time. I bought my Onkyo from them. I've been very happy with their service.

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post #13 of 24
3/11/10 at 4:58pm
Ed: 

I think Craig was still asking about getting better audio from his cable service in that last question in Post #9.  His questions all seem based on trying to duplicate (or at least get the closest he can to) the phenomenal audio he's experiencing from Blu-rays on his PS3.

Craig:  What kind of audio connection do you currently have between your cable box and your HTIB?  Optical (Toslink), Coaxial, RCA? 

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post #14 of 24
3/11/10 at 5:37pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon View Post

Ed: 

I think Craig was still asking about getting better audio from his cable service in that last question in Post #9.  His questions all seem based on trying to duplicate (or at least get the closest he can to) the phenomenal audio he's experiencing from Blu-rays on his PS3.

Craig:  What kind of audio connection do you currently have between your cable box and your HTIB?  Optical (Toslink), Coaxial, RCA? 
 
To be sure not?..............
He's still asking after it's been explained that cable tv doesn't broadcast HD audio? Oh well.......
Sorry 'bout that.

gawain...........
If you're asking can you get Dolby Digital 5.1 surround from cable tv, the answer is yes. BUT, only from HD channels, some premium movie channels (HBO, Starz, etc.), and some PPV channels. Not from all channels. Most channels will be broadcast in stereo. You can set the A/V receiver on Dolby Pro Logic II, and get all the stereo channels in 5.1 simulated surround, which sounds pretty good. With a 7.1 system, set receiver to Dolby Pro Logic IIx.

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post #15 of 24
3/11/10 at 5:43pm
Ed:  Don't some of the major broadcast networks also broadcast their primetime lineups in 5.1 surround?  It's not lossless (like on most Blu-ray discs) audio, but I'm fairly sure CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox also broadcast shows (like CSI, sporting events, etc.) in surround. 

That's why I'm wondering what kind of connection Craig has to his cable box.  If he's using RCAs, that may be part of his problem.
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post #16 of 24
3/11/10 at 8:15pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon View Post

Ed:  Don't some of the major broadcast networks also broadcast their primetime lineups in 5.1 surround?  It's not lossless (like on most Blu-ray discs) audio, but I'm fairly sure CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox also broadcast shows (like CSI, sporting events, etc.) in surround. 

That's why I'm wondering what kind of connection Craig has to his cable box.  If he's using RCAs, that may be part of his problem.
On their HD channels, yes. I've never heard of them doing it on their SD channels.
But, like with everything else for me lately, I guess I could be wrong. I'm just gonna shut up.......

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post #17 of 24
3/11/10 at 8:38pm
Cut it out! 

We'll get some answers from Craig and see what we can do! 
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post #18 of 24
3/12/10 at 7:45am
Thread Starter 
I have HDMI coming from cable box to my Samsung receiver, then HDMI going to my TV.

And yes, I want the same sound quality from high def cable programming as I'm getting from my blu-ray player..... ; )  Currently the audio from my high def channels and regular channels sounds the same.  Kind of puny..... but PS3 blu-ray blew my socks off.... LOL

I do have a Scientific Atlanta Explorer High Definition cable box... it has HDMI and optical out.

I sure appreciate everyone's help.......


Craig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon View Post

Ed: 

I think Craig was still asking about getting better audio from his cable service in that last question in Post #9.  His questions all seem based on trying to duplicate (or at least get the closest he can to) the phenomenal audio he's experiencing from Blu-rays on his PS3.

Craig:  What kind of audio connection do you currently have between your cable box and your HTIB?  Optical (Toslink), Coaxial, RCA? 
 


 
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post #19 of 24
3/12/10 at 8:12am
Craig:

You can't get a better audio connection than HDMI.  I'm starting to wonder if you are reacting solely to the difference between the lossy audio formats offered up via the cable company versus the lossless audio offered by Blu-ray. 

Have you had that same "Wow!" factor happen with any DVD audio you've run through that system?

It's hard to say just how "puny" your cable audio sounds over an internet board!    I'd say if it sounds comparable to an average DVD soundtrack, you are probably hearing what you should be hearing.  If not, the only other thing I could think to check would be the audio settings on the cable box itself (since the receiver seems to be doing just find handling HDMI audio from the Blu-ray discs via your PS3). 

I know one of the great joys for me about Blu-ray is the audio.  Lossless audio tracks are as significant to me (maybe more so) than the higher quality video.  I've got a 1080p display (albeit only a 32" LCD) so I always tend to think I notice more of a difference to the sound presentation--even though my speakers are also not top-of-the-line. 
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post #20 of 24
3/12/10 at 8:35am


Quote:
Originally Posted by gawain View Post

And yes, I want the same sound quality from high def cable programming as I'm getting from my blu-ray player..... ; ) 


Craig, I think the point that you're missing is that the soundtracks available on Blu-Ray are in a format that is not available via cable or satellite.  It's like wanting FM radio to sound as good as a CD.  It's not going to happen because they are two different sound formats.

The best you'll get from HD Cable programming is a lossy Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack (and not all HD programs include 5.1 audio - many are 2.0).  This format is simply incapable of sounding as good as a lossless Dolby HD or DTS Master Audio soundtrack on a Blu-Ray.

The single biggest factor in making something sound as good as it can are the speakers in your system.  Are they decent quality, and are they set up and configured properly?  Keep in mind, there's a limit to how good a lossy DD 5.1 soundtrack can sound.  Just as upconverting a VHS tape to 1080p on a new TV isn't going to look as good as a Blu-Ray in native 1080p.

When I made the switch to Blu-Ray a little over a year ago, the biggest improvement I noticed was in the sound.  Dialog was no longer hard to discern in the front soundstage - it was clear as day.  The overall fidelity of the sound was much superior to what I was used to.  What you're experiencing is a by-product of the evolution of digital media.
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post #21 of 24
3/12/10 at 8:55am
 I'm thinking you have a setting wrong in the cable box (or even the AVR).  No disrespect, but I have a hard time believing that you would notice a big difference with the speakers/AVR you have.  In my experience, I cannot tell the difference between DVD/BD and TV on my Panasonic HTiB.  However, I can tell a the difference with my Onkyo 705 and my Axiom speakers (it is not a HUGE difference, but it is better with BD).

What channels are you watching that are underwhelming?  Are they HD?  

I don't believe you ever mentioned the brand/model of your HTiB.  It would be helpful to determine what is going on.
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post #22 of 24
3/12/10 at 12:18pm
Thread Starter 
 OK teachers... some more information as I discover it......or think of it...


My Samsung HT-AS730ST receiver (hTiB).... displays what type of audio it gets from my cable box (pass through???). On, like the National Geographic High Def Theater network channel, I see a graphical representation of 7 speakers the words Dolby 7.1 plus L.cpm.....

The thing that bothers me is that my high def channels (video=occupies full screen, no need for stretch mode) sounds the same as regular channels (video=either black bars on side or use stretch mode).

And reading up on what the heck lcpm is, I understand lcpm is not dolby... and when I try and force dolby mode at setup in my cable box, i get no sound. I have to select HD Audio instead of Dolby.

Does any of this make sense>?


THANKS!

Craig
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post #23 of 24
3/13/10 at 8:32am
According to the spec sheet, Craig's HTiB is a 5.1 system that does not decode the HD digital formats.  (Well, it says, "number of channels 5.1 (amp 7.1)" whatever that means exactly.  I suspect you can hook up two extra speakers for a mono rear channel.) 

Craig - how do you have your PS3 connected to the Samsung?  Just an HDMI cable?  How about the cable box?  

Have you tried connecting an optical or coax digital wire from the cable box to the Samsung, just for laugh? 

Let me know and I'll see where we can go from there.  I do know that the Scientific Atlanta DVRs can be very annoying when it comes to the various output settings, but I need to know about the connections before we can look at that.

Regards,

Joe
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post #24 of 24
3/13/10 at 12:09pm
I too just got a BluRay player and am blown away at how good the video and audio are, simply amazing!
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