'Best of' Star trek TNG Blu-ray set?

Unlikely to happen. Either the entire season/series is released or nothing is likely to come out. Most Trek fans will not be satisfied with 20 episodes when everyone has their own favorites.

 I'm sure that the CBS/Paramount execs are all "scratching their heads" as to what to do with the TNG, DS9, and VOY series.

Probably the best that we could ever hope for is that an analog-to-digital process is perfected which will allow these series (and other series from the 80's-to-early 90's which were edited on video) to be converted to the digital realm with a computer enhanced upscaling.  Something like a Lowry clean-up ... but for video as opposed to film. Of course, it would have to be a relatively inexpensive process just due to the sheer number of episodes.   

 

Quote:
Read his comments again.

I'm in the all or nothing camp. Make the entire series available or not.

I was casually watching the blu ray of Trials and Tribble-ations. It looked okay, but nothing to write home about. I agree it wasn't better then the SD-DVD.

If they can't bump the clarity up a lot, then it's probably not worth it to most people to rebuy the sets...

I bet CBS studios had gotten the process down pretty well when they redid the TOS effects shots. Though I bet with what they learned, they might do a better job then they did with TOS. The TOS Enterprise varied from flat to very real looking. And TNG's original effects were okay in the first 2 years to great at the end. So the point is, they might be more efficient at redoing the effects. And not restrained with the notion of matching the level of effects work from the 1960's to a 2006 level of CGI.

The TOS sets set the bar very high. So it's probably going to be difficult for a TNG set. I wonder what the source materials are that were used for the TNG DVD sets. Tapes or film. I don't know, I'm guessing even though the effects were done on video, did they transfer it back to film? If so, couldn't they take the live action and do the same level of restoration as they did on TOS?, then cut new effects into that cut like on the TOS effort.

It's more than that, Steve. Part of the appeal of DVD in the first place is not just great picture and sound quality but the ability to archive. DVD collectors are after a large degree of completion, which is why fans get annoyed when music is changed (see the reaction to Paramount's Fugitive DVD sets) or when all the available extras are not included (Generations' trailer was left off two DVD releases), and so on. The TOS sets include the entire series, warts and all. (How many would buy Spock's Brain if it were not included in the set?)

Personally, I would vote for no TNG on BD rather than the piecemeal project you suggest. BTW, twenty episodes is close to an entire season, and that would also be a considerable expense for the studio.

Who knows if the raw film footage still exists. Have there been any shows where the editing was done on video and that were mastered on 480i been released on blu ray ? I am talking about a show like "Cheers" which doesn't have special effects.   Even if the film does exist who knows what condition it is in. I don't think anyone knows what exists and in what condition it is in. Unless a way can be found to do this work cheaper in the future, I just don't see this happening.

i assume CBS has no stakes in trek from TNG onward, is that correct?

I am no expert but I believe Paramount TV became part of CBS when Viacom split into 2 companies, Viacom and CBS. Therefore all of trek TV should be with CBS.

If almost 5 years after the BD format hits the market, no TV show from the past decades except for a bunch ones were released on Blu, what does that tell us?

Either is not possible to do that (like someone noticed, they can't never do that for example with X-Files) or they don't think the sales will justify the costs?

But if that's the case, then why they can't release TNG or any of those old shows like they did with TOS but instead of showing the episodes with or without the new FX (you can select either of them in all TOS discs), they mix the old effects on video, with some scenes ih HD quality?

It might look awful but isn't that worth enough to do an upgrade on the current DVD releases?

Can we at least expect that happening?

Is it possible that all regular scenes (the ones where two actors are just talking with each other) will be available in HD quality, and more than that, in a good quality and not just upscale from SD tapes? I can't believe that only doing special effects from scratch is the main issue.

And if they ever did that, we would definitelly expect some criticism if they didn't put the original effects on those discs (not because the purists will complain - the original work would be altered like replacing a original black-and-white with a colorized version and not including one of them on the disc, which is not a good idea, specially when all discs can store both).

IF the film still exists and can be located, they'll do it eventually. Probably with new effects, that kind of CGI that they used for the original series is getting cheaper every year. If the show had no effects and was as popular as Seinfeld they'd be doing it already.

will this happen, as already stated someone at CBS is scratching their collective heads, this is CBS/Paramounts cash cow, will these be cleaned, remastered and have new effects done, one word states it all (Cindy Brady), i mean syndication, LOL, it could be re-marketed all over again just like TOS was, as we get further and further into HD programing, items for stations in HD will need a steady diet of items for  the future of programing. Someone stated that the current trend in Trek is the TOS crew, well with J.J. running that current franchise, i am sure a tie-in of some way is possible  

Apparently, some TNG stock footage was newly transferred  for use in Enterprise's final episode, so the original film reels must be around.

www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/ent_vs_tng.htm

There was never any question about the availability of the original 35mm film elements.  

The problem is that all of the SFX work was completed for 480i resolution and was edited together with the film elements on video to complete the eps.   Every scene of every single episode would therefore have to be re-edited from the original 35mm film elements and  combined with newly-commissioned  SFX CGI work.  It's even possible that most of the audio would have to be re-mixed on a scene-by-scene basis as well.  

On the surface it just doesn't seem too feasible.

Now ... I *do* like the idea of a new standard-definition release to Blu-ray using the VC-1 codec and DTS-HD MA audio.  Due to the 50GB/disc storage capacity, it should be possible to put about 20 eps (in standard definition) on each disc.   That means the entire series would fit on about 9 or 10 BDs!!  And the audio/video presentation will still be way above what we currently have on DVD (especially the first two seasons).  

The big problem is not just the effects. The problem is THE WHOLE SHOW. Every episode of TNG likely shot 4 to 6 hours of footage for each 46 min show. That means that they would have to have the edit room logs to know which takes of each shot were used. In some cases, a particular close up of an actor might be, take four for the first part, take six for the middle, and take one for the last part. All inter-cut with close ups of another actor. They would also have to know how many frames of each shot were used. With out the edit logs, they would have to look at each episode shot by shot, and cut by cut to find out what all was used. Now maybe the edit logs still exist and maybe they don't. Having seen the special about the auction they did of Star Trek items a few years ago, I was surprised how little information they had about what some of the stuff was even as recently as Voyager.

Then there issue of the effects shots. The model work on TNG, much of it having been done by ILM was very good. The problem is the video compositing. If the original elements of those shots still exist, then they could be re-comped with today's technology and would look in my opinion, stunning. The other option would be to re-create them from scratch in the computer. Either way is going to cost LOTS of money. In addition to that, things like phasers and other animated effects were created and exist only in 480i resolution and would have to be created from scratch.

Now I'm fairly sure that Paramount knew what it had by 1987 with Star Trek, and they would preserve the film and sound elements. But my guess is that to do this process to all 178 episodes of TNG, would cost more and take longer than it took to create the show in the first place.

Doug

I don't think the audio and video presentations would be any better than what we have on DVD now. The big stumbling block in this case is not the codec being used on the DVDs, but rather the vintage late 80's telecine work of the show. Its always going to be soft with bleeding colors. Using a more advance codec won't help that situation. In fact Trials and Tribulations, on the second season TOS blu-ray set, looks in my opinion worse than it does on the original DS9 DVD.

Doug

Doug,

*sigh* .. . Well it just seems a shame that TNG may never look as good as TOS ...  

Perhaps Steve is right that a good place to begin would be a set of "fav" eps.  (Perhaps 4 eps on a single BD.)  This would give the CBS/P execs some idea of what they're up against in reassembling the series ...

Yes as long as they are using the video masters of the show, it will never look as good as TOS.

Having said that, if there is one show that is most likely to get the work needed to upgrade to HD, its Star Trek: TNG. It is the show that is most likely to see a return on the cost of doing the work. But the bean counters are going to be the ones that will make that call.

Doug

I believe the next generation differs from TOS in moving to Blu-Ray in two areas:

TOS had only three seasons on readily available/restorable film elements and was more popular.

TNG exists completed on video and the show didn't get off the ground until the third season.

In both cases though, new CGI makes sense, correct?

Of course, for the Blu-Ray releases of ST:TOS, we learned that we could have both original and CGI effect shots, but would there have really been enough to showcase the new format if only the original effects were included? Purists would say yes, and I tend to lean in this direction, but it does make sense from a marketing standpoint to include something new, beyond the restored live action.

So I suspect it will be, as others have indicated, mostly a question of economics if we will see TNG come to Blu. Surely, the film elements exist but it will be much more expensive getting them together and then creating new CGI to replace the standard def content.

It would be nice if it were to happen someday. I really enjoyed the series and there is potential to improve beyond the current DVD release.

Star Trek The Next generation is over 20 years old now! ( "Jim, The Enterprise is 20 years old, she'll never take the pounding...!")

I agree of all the spin off shows, TNG was the most popular and successful and had a great following at it's height. But it doesn't have the same following TOS did. That's my impression anyway. Interest in TNG of course could never keep up with TOS, not to put down TNG. It just didn't have the same lasting impact.

I agree with Doug, TNG should come next on BD and if they can find a way to do near as good as TOS in the transfer, then that would be great! 

And I still wonder, does an archived TNG exist as a tape or film stock, lock, stock, effects and all? If so, they could just do what they did with TOS without the CGI.

TNG exists as two things. The edited 480i videos of each episode, and unedited original camera negative as it ran through the camera. The film was never even printed. It went directly from the negative into the telecine machine. 

The effects elements on film would just be the motion control shots of the models against green or blue screen. Again all the combining of motion control ships, with backgrounds such as planets and stars, were done at NTSC resolution. If these effects elements were re scanned at HD resolution, and re combined they should look quite good. Its also possible that the planet elements were not models at all but something created in a paintbox type device at 480I resolution.

Doug

If you're going to quote, best make it accurate.

"Jim, the Enterpise is 20 years old. We feel her day is over."

"Sure enough, Jim. McCoy out." 

Doug, 

Regarding my question about what form TNG exists now,  I understand what you're saying. It exists as those elements. Perhaps it wasn't clear in my post, but I was wondering if each episode exists as a complete film negative. If so, why wouldn't they do what they did for TOS and wash that negative through their process and clean things up. And do this without doing new CGI effects. I would guess this is the easiest way to remaster since everything is already in place on the negative. 

As mentioned above, the hook could be new CGI effects blended into the negative so they could market this new TNG blu ray set. The only bad thing about this process is that if a live action shot is cross faded into an effects shot, you lose some frames of live action. TOS suffers from this as you know. But a show like Best of Both Worlds already has some fine effects. So CGI work could be very minimal. 

Of course, no one really knows the answer except the people at Paramount/CBS.

The original series was shot, edited and completed on 35mm film, much like a feature film, so it was comparatively simple to take the original elements and re-tranfer them to HD.

ST: TNG was shot on film, but edited and completed on video, so there is no negative cut of the episodes. The completed episodes only exist as NTSC video.

In order to create a hi-def version, they'd have to go back to the original, unedited camera negative, re-transfer that to HD, then re-edit all of the footage to conform to the episodes. On top of that, they'd have to go back and redo all of the FX shots in HD.

It could also be possible to create a compromise version, where all of the film footage is re-transferred and re-edited in HD, while keeping the FX shots in SD as they are - though it would probably be a jarring transition to cut from pristine HD footage to 20-year old NTSC FX shots.

Got it Nick. I had understood the effects were edited in video, but I wasn't clear it and live action remained in the 480 NTSC video realm.

That's the problem.  Many Trekkies consider the first two seasons rather poor.  I think they are the best seasons of the series.  That being said, I don't think any TNG will make it to Blu-Ray.  And if it does happen, it will probably be a handful of episodes on one disc to maybe test the waters of how good a seller TNG can be for Blu-Ray.