Superman II, III, IV: Where Are the BD's? - Page 2

Actually there already is a package that has all four movies. It's not to be confused with any boxed set, I think it's a cheaply priced, no frills version.

Superman: The Movie looks the way it does because of the way it was photographed. The Blu-ray looks very much like it did in the theaters in 1978.

Doug

Yes, but Superman the movie on Blu looks nearly identical to the standard dvd(not kidding).  And no lossless audio is just the nail in the coffin.  It's a dud.

I beg to differ.

I've just read this thread today. Interesting, I would have thought that BD editions of the first 2 at least should be out. Nice to see the first Reeve film is on BD, but it is a shame only the Donner cut is available of Superman 2. I've been waiting to collect Superman on blu-ray in a box set.

As an aside, in the earlier postings from the WB chat, WB said they've "been there and done that." Reminded me to pull out the Superman Ultimate Collectors Edition in the Tin box. That is a great box set with so many extras, and the 5 films, plus the George Reeves film. I can see why the WB person said they've been there and done it.

There's a few things in there I have been meaning to watch, like all 17 Fleischer Superman Animated shorts. I did a little reading on them after reading this thread. That was a really nice bonus that included the entire run of these, from the original 9 Fleischer to the last 8 by Famous Studios. (I realize these are public domain, but these appear to be the best versions?)  Now I wonder if those may come to BD too. Though from what I've read, only the first 9 Fleischer originals are the superior shorts.

 I don't disagree, WB should release the Reeve films. Even if they were all barebones or have some minimal extras from the past releases, it would be great to have all 4.

I don't think WB considers the Donner cut to be the official version of SII, but being how new it is, it makes sense that they did a high def transfer of it and released it on Blu-Ray. I don't know for sure, but the other Superman films were released somewhat early in the days of the DVD format and at that time it wasn't always commonplace to do high definition transfers. So, it's possible that high def transfers still don't exist for the other films outside of S:TM and the Donner cut of SII or did not exist at the point the other BDs were released at. I believe that the more recent versions of the Superman DVDs that were released used the same transfers as the original releases. This is just speculation on my part of course, but I'm sure that at the very latest, BDs of the other films will be released when the next Theatrical Superman film is nearing release.

Really going against the grain there, huh?

They definitely exist. HDNet has showed SUPERMAN II and SUPERMAN III in HD with a new Warner logo over the last year or two; they both look excellent. SUPERMAN IV I'm not sure about, but it stands to reason HD transfers were struck of all the different versions when Warner did that box-set right around the time that RETURNS came out.

I definitely want the SUPERMAN II theatrical cut in high-def...maybe they could do one of those new, low-cost Double Feature Blu Ray discs with SUPERMAN III.

Or, if they really wanted to satisfy the completists:

-Do one Double Feature disc with SUPERMAN THE MOVIE/SUPERMAN II Theatrical Versions
-Do another Double Feature disc with SUPERMAN III/IV

Would LOVE to see it happen...maybe when the new Christopher Nolan produced Superman movie comes out it'll happen (if we have to wait that long).

That's srange then as I'm pretty sure the newer version used the same transfers as the old snapper case editions. It appears as if HD transfers exist now, but I'm wondering exactly when they were done.

I've had both the original releases and the "deluxe" editions from '06 and they definitely did new transfers for the "deluxe" editions.

I have zero interest in the theatrical cut of Superman II. I watched it once on its original release, and was VERY disappointed. The Donner cut made watching the film tolerable. To this day, I think its a shame that Warner didn't step in and force the Salkinds to let Donner finish the film.

Doug

I don't have strong feelings about the different versions of Superman II one way or the other, but I'm always pleased to see multiple cuts of a film released on Blu-ray when they exist, especially when they differ significantly from one another (as do the two different versions of Superman II).  I, too, am disappointed that the theatrical cut is unavailable.

 I *really* enjoyed the Donner cut of Superman II ... except for the ending!   And I understand the history behind it, but it still kind of spoils things a little ...

Douglas Monce said:
"I have zero interest in the theatrical cut of Superman II. I watched it once on its original release, and was VERY disappointed. The Donner cut made watching the film tolerable. To this day, I think its a shame that Warner didn't step in and force the Salkinds to let Donner finish the film."

I agree that Donner should not have been pulled off the movie.  But with both Marlon Brando and Gene Hackman already refusing to participate in the Lester reshoots, it would seem that the Salkinds were immune to any kind of additional pressure that Warner could have brought to bear on the situation.  (I assume that due to the success of "Superman the Movie" the Salkinds' no longer needed Warner's money.)



Edited by Joseph Bolus - 3/15/10 at 6:33pm

I think Reeve once said that had he known in time of Donner's firing he could have successfully lobbied to bring him back.

I was pleased to see the Donner cut after all these years, but it really isn't a finished film. I'm not sure why they couldn't have offered both versions on the blu-ray, as a decent looking HD transfer of the theatrical edit exists.

Thanks to this thread, I re-watched Superman 1 and Superman 2 and Superman 2 The Donner Cut over the last few days from the last Superman Ultimate box set.

Having seen Superman 2 The Donner Cut 2 times now, I have to agree, it's much superior. The Lester cut now just looks bad. Too bad the ending of Superman 1 had to be altered with Superman reversing the Earth's rotation in order to turn time back and not have been used on the second film to complete the Superman arc and the character's growth. I had listened to several segments of the audio commentary and it's interesting to hear what they intended had they been able to complete the pair of films as intended. 

Superman regaining his powers was much more sensible and had a greater impact on the character.

Having said all that, I could not help but notice this back when Superman Returns came out, but even if these films are out on Blu Ray, I doubt it can help those back projection flying scenes. The new Superman film of course has the advantage of modern effects and Routh's Superman flying scenes are so seamless and real looking. So on a technical level, the new film wins hands down, but the Donner/Reeves films are superior and all other areas. Especially Reeves portrayal of Superman/Kent.

So I guess if they only have Superman 1 and the Donner cut of 2, those are the better films.

By the way, it had always bothered me as to why Margot Kidder looked so different in the film most of the time. So I found on Wikipedia a entry for the Donner cut and it lists the scenes that Donner had filmed. So I was glad to find that to use to help understand which scenes are new and which are left over Lester shots. It would have been super to have retained the more nasty versions of the villains as Donner intended.

Many seemed to generally agree that the villains did come of a bit nastier in the Donner cut. The most siginificant aspect of this being that the Donner cut mostly eliminated scenes that showed Non to be a overgrown man-child. There were some other subtle bits as well. For example, in the Moon sequence, Zod pulls out the astronaut's air hose quicker.

As for the two cuts of SII. I can't really say that the Donner cut is "better" I think had Donner been able to finish the film it would have been superior to what we got. But we'll never really know and since the Donner cut had to be made with only what was available to them as they couldn't shoot any new material we can't really consider it a "finished" work. For example, for the beginning of the film, I probably give the edge to Lester's version. It gives us a Superman scene earlier in the film and doesn't necessitate immediately opening up the film with the rocket freeing the villains. I know that is how it was originally conceived, but originally that event was to happen at the end of S:TM. Meanwhile, pretty obviously the Fortress scenes are usually better in the Donner version in that they benefit from being able to use Brando footage and gives a more dramatic punch to Superman regaining his power.

I must say, in the Donner version it's fairly immoral for Superman to beat up the bar jerk since his memory of the events are gone with the world having been turned back in time. I remember watching that and laughing pretty hard about how unfair that lesson ended up being in the Donner Cut.

How pathetic. I can't believe the friggin' Donner Cut of Superman II is on Blu-Ray but the original theatrical movie isn't.. It was badly edited and made little sense, a glorified fan edit is what it was and should have been left as an extra on the Superman II disc!

Warner spent a LOT of money for the Donner Cut. It's existence makes no real financial sense whatsoever. To complain about it being far from perfect due to the limited footage available seems to me to be borderline obtuse to the realities of the cost of such a project.

If the Lester cut went away forever I wouldn't shed a tear. Its really a very bad film, and makes a mockery of the first film. I find it completely unwatchable. The Donner cut however works more seamlessly with the first film. Considering that Superman II was almost 3/4 finished when they stopped working on it to meet the Superman I release date, there really isn't THAT much that is missing.

In fact everything with Hackman and Beatty was shot by Donner, as they both refused to work on Superman II with out him. Richard Lester never shot a foot of film with them. Yes the shots from the screen tests that they used don't perfectly match the photography from the rest of the film, but its MUCH better than the crap that Lester did.

In spite of the problems inherent with completing a 30 year old movie that was never fully finished, it is an infinitely better movie than what was released theatrically in 1980.

Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of Lester's other work. One of my favorite films is The Three Musketeers, but his style just doesn't work with what Donner established in the first film. I don't blame Lester so much as the Salkinds.

Doug

I agree.  And I can't think of one other instance a studio has done this on such an old film.  I mean this was really a gift.  I enjoyed it.  

But I also love the original, theatrical Superman II.  I loved it growing up and never knew all these "problems" existed until a couple of years ago.  I really don't care to dissect these things to death.  

It is what it is - and IMHO it's a great, classic companion film to Superman: the Movie.   Would enjoy it on BD.  

I don't recall seeing any B&W shots in the film, or unfinished effects shots. In fact they actually shot new inserts, (Clark picking up the green crystal in the destroyed Fortress of Solitude among others)  and did a completely new compositing job on the rocket sequence, for which the models had been photographed, but never composted together with the backgrounds. Are you sure you've actually seen this cut of the movie?

Doug

Would love to see the original theatrical versions of Superman and Superman II on Blu.

Not to dismiss the awesome job Warner did here with Superman II, but I can think of one other instance: Fox did pretty much the same thing with Alien 3.  No, it isn't quite as old as Superman II, but it was well over a decade by the time the "assembly cut" was finally assembled and released.

True. And Paramount surely spend a fair amount of time and money on the Director's cut of Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

And ST:TMP is another great example of how limited the budgets to do these things are. I had the opportunity to work with David Fein within the past year, who was an instrumental part in getting the Director's Edition of ST:TMP done, working with Robert Wise directly as producer of the project. Paramount was gonna scrap the whole idea until he could prove that he could deliver the product within the budget in standard definition. Well, several years later we see how limiting the budget in such a way impacted the ability for a High Definition release. That Warner did enough work and provided enough funds for The Donner Cut of Superman II to not only exist but to get an HD release is remarkable, regardless of the HD release status of the Lester cut.