***Official SHUTTER ISLAND Discussion Thread

I wouldn't even call it a twist ending because you can never have seen the trailer and it's still clear thorughout the movie that DiCaprio's character is disturbed. I was waiting to see him realize it and see what was the exact explanation of what was happening onscreen than waiting for a Sixth Sense "Aha!" moment.

I saw it this past weekend and didn't really see the twist coming until later in the film.  When it happened I thought this is a totally different movie than I expected.  It was just ok and not that great.

If a hack directed this then I'd say the twist was given away but we're talking Scorsese here and I don't think he's going to be dump enough to let the cat out of the bag so early on.  Even if he had, he and DiCaprio have the pull to go back and fix the problems just like they did on the reshoots to GANGS OF NEW YORK.

We're discussing this in the TRACK thread but I don't think it's so clear cut that the entire twist of the film was that DiCaprio was a patient.  There's nothing scary about this.  It's boring and people going into the film already expect this twist and this twist is already being discussed by people who haven't seen the film.

The woman in the cave pretty much tells DiCaprio that once someone labels you as being insane, there's really nothing you can do because if you try to prove your sane then the doctors will just use this as proof that you are crazy.  This is the scary part of SHUTTER ISLAND.  To me, it's not the twist but the possibilty that DiCaprio's "conspiracy theory" wasn't a theory but something true.  We know he's mentally screwed up and what if he did discover the evil doings on this island and what if the doctors there lured him there to shut him down for good. 

The final shot can make one believe that they were taking him there for the experiments.  Originally I went along with everyone else but this theory came up in a discussion after the movie and thinking back on the events, I think everything is fair game and this could have been what happened.  To me, both sides of the coin works flawlessly and the final shot makes it clear, to me anyway, that Scorsese wants people to discuss both options as to what happened.

This thread is now designated the Official Discussion Thread for "Shutter Island". Please, post all comments, links to outside reviews, film and box office discussion items to this thread.

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Crawdaddy

I saw this last night. I, too, assumed from the start that DiCaprio's character was probably a patient and suffering delusions. The "twist" was that everything that he experienced and we saw (up to a point) turned out to actually be happening as part of the role play therapy. (Exceptions, I believe, being the woman in the cave, and seeing his wife in ward C with George - and of course his dreams). Thinking back it made me realize that there were plenty of clues from the other characters and I'd like to see it again knowing what to look for.

The cool part to me was the ending. The therapy worked, and he "woke up" to face reality. But was that for the best? Reality turned out to be more than he could handle, and with his defense mechanism pulled away his only option was to pretend it didn't work so that they would lobotomize him. His last quote and the fact that he went with them at the end with no prompting shows he knew his fate, and welcomed it.
Edited by Greg Kettell - 2/22/10 at 12:17pm

Shutter Island is Scorcese's love letter to the gothic horror genre. It was ideal source material, especially since the novel was Dennis Lehane's love letter to the gothic horror genre. Since both are essentially all the trappings of the genre plus the kitchen sink, the story practically demanded that Leo's character be an inmate. I think the twist is almost beside the point, and taken as a given.

Yeah, that's what I figured with the ending. That he wanted to be lobotomized rather than go on living with what he'd done, and so he faked a relapse. Only thing is, I'm wondering why his psychiatrist wasn't tipped off by DiCaprio's "final question" and didn't realize this charade. 

I'm not sure the psychiatrist would have fallen for a trick at this point of the game either. 

 

It's funny but I had at least five people ask me if I saw the movie and then ask if the "twist" was that DiCaprio was a patient.  It seems EVERYONE knows what the twist is so, again, I think the movie was meant to be more than just a twist no one sees coming as it's obvious that everyone does know the ending. 

I didn't know.  Fortunately, I didn't see the film's trailer. 

I do think that the visions on the ferry (particularly the weird bit with the record player) came too early and had you wondering about Teddy right from the start.  Overall, I enjoyed the film.   

I think he was tipped off, and realized that he agreed with the answer.

As it pretty much is impossible to review this film without addressing it's (not so subtle) secrets, I'll post some thoughts in here.

1) Adam is completely correct.  This is not Scorcese making a "gotcha" movie.  The narrative needs are a given, and Scorcese does not try and cloud that result.

2) I am surprised that some folks are surprised Scorcese would make a film like this.  Both The Departed and Gangs seemed pretty "pulp" to me, so this is no surprise.  This is a film (honestly like Avatar) that is about how you tell the story.  This is masterfully directed.  Knowing the twist isn't the trick.

3) It's understanding the twist.  The Dachau scenes (masterful in their devastation) are a set up.  I was horrified by them, and immediately sympathetic with Teddy.  Such horrors could certainly unsettle a man.  I mean, what could be worse than that.  I even thought that very thing.

4) And then the film showed something equally as terrible, and much more personal for the main character.  The scene where Andrew remembers coming home is one of the most painful things I've ever seen.  I'm a father.  And from that moment, there was only one way for the film to end.  No man can be that strong.  Because that is beyond strength.  That grief is beyond comprehension.

5) So perhaps, the psychiatrist was tipped.  It's almost too obvious.  Perhaps, after his two years with Andrew (and then the previous two/three days in intimate proximity) gave him the sympathy to let him go.  It was very bad for their groundbreaking work (his and the Chief Psychiatrist), but perhaps he thought it humane.

Skillfully made, extremely well directed, but too heartbreaking to watch again.  Pulpy to be sure, but made something more by the cast and the crew.

The script is also very well constructed to build the roleplay.  Like most noticed, it's obvious to a jaded audience, but fresh for the character of Teddy.

Edit: And what was the music for when Teddy was talking to George in Ward C?  It was incredibly beautiful.

Edit 2: It is "On The Nature of Daylight" by Max Richter, conveniently located at theplaylist.blogspot.com/2010/02/shutter-island-soundtrack-scares-up.html.
Edited by Chuck Mayer - 2/26/10 at 5:13pm

Plenty of posters at other boards and reviewers have been discussing Scorsese "channeling" Hitchcock and certainly Hitchcock is an influence on Scorsese, but you could say that about a lot of directors.  Personally, I the use of music and camera angles to be similar to
Kubrick's THE SHINING. 

That said Scorsese does a nice hommage to Alfred Hitchcock in the modified Paramount studio logo on the SHUTTER ISLAND trailer. 

If I noticed it on first viewing, my guess is that Scorsese didn't use this in the movie's release as he may have found the realized result a bit too obvious.  I don't know why his nose is so pointy, after all whose nose is?   

Having done some thinking on the film, I've come to the conclusion that it is a tragedy.  It's lasting impact is not in the well-telegraphed switcheroo, but the emotional context of the sequence.

Here is a man, a strong, smart man (since we have spent two hours with him, crazy or not), who saw the very worst humanity had to offer when he liberated Dachau.  He retains his sanity (with some fraying, since we are told he has a drinking issue...perhaps this is related to what he saw - but this is understandable) through that.  Scorcese doesn't tell us what Andrew experiences that causes him to crack, he shows it to us.  We experience it alongside the main character.  And like the Dachau scenes, this is intentional, and in a specific order.  He established the character as an alpha male.  His fracturing was not caused by weakness, but by tragedy.

Shutter Island is about the why, not the what.  The tragedy comes becuase this is our condition.  Many wouldn't be able to comprehend Dachau.  Here is a man who could.  But even that wasn't the worst thing he would face.  We could all be Andrew.  I think, beyond the gothic elements and the narrative games which were clearly near and dear to the writer and director, that was the purpose for the film.

Quote:
Val Lewton is the name that kept going through my head as I watched the film.

I absolutely loved this film, and I think it's awesome how many people think the 'twist' is Teddy being who he is.

The REAL twist is the last line of the film, and that is one that is subtle and yet the real horror. 

I do agree that the doctor in the cave provides a much needed 'deus ex machina' to the film, that is the fulcrum around which Teddy, and we follow and go topsy turvy.

How many of you have read King's Gunslinger series and expected Teddy to find a Rose at the top of the tower?  =)

The one thing I didnt like was the gothic music as Teddy went through the front gates, but as a sense of foreboding it was necessary, but never really had a satisfying second beat.

Thanks for posting the Paramount Logo.  I totally missed that but you can be sure I will watch for it on the Bluray.

just saw this one the weekend.  i'm usually pretty good with seeing plot twists ahead of time (or at least average at it) and i have to admit i didn't see it coming until well into the movie.  i did wonder early on whether Ruffalo's character was imaginary but decided it wasn't. 
anyways, i agree it's not the twist that makes the movie.  similar to Inside Man, which was a movie that was obviously about more than a bank job, Shutter Island is about the journey.  and they're both excellent movies. 

question:  i listened to the "Creative Screenwriting" podcast that interviewed Laeta Kalogridis, who adapted the book, and she said the ending was different from the book.  could someone elaborate?

I think this is a fine film. I'm one of the fans. Small but excellent performances by Max von as well a somewhat larger one by Ben Kingsley. The whole cast is great. I like Leonardo too.

 

Well, for those who didn't figure it out right away, or weren't tipped off by the trailer, when was it that you thought, "wait a minute? what's really going on here?"

 

I'm a sucker. Even though I'm a long time fan of Twilight Zone, I only began to figure it out when there was an implausible number of rats near the ocean. I was like, wow, Scorsese is really being unrealistic here....uh, wait....

I just watched this one last weekend.  I need to watch it again because I did not catch on to the twist.  I never remembered the trailer, so I really had no idea what the film was about.  I started to pick up on things early in the movie.  Like how much his Psychiatrist struggled to take the gun off his belt.  Really enjoyed it.

What about the references to Portland and Seattle. Everytime the character DiCaprio asked about Portland, the other "marshall" kept saying he was from Seattle. DiCaprio's character kept looking confused about this. I don't understand the relation other than Portland Maine and Portland Oregon... Just confused me too but I thought the movie was great after viewing it twice. There were lots of clues to DiCaprio being the crazy one. It seems that Burt Lancaster played in a movie similar to this long ago about a patient who thought he was the head of the hospital but all the time the patients were the doctors and were trying to fix him by role playing. I can't remember the movie though.  maybe I'm the crazy one :)

So the doctor in the cave is Teddy's delusion, right? I had the same thought as benbess about the rats, and then in the ensuing scene the Kingsley character asks Teddy about 'seeing nightmares' or something, indicating the rats (a common phobia) and everything after is an episode in his head.  Or is there some case for the doctor to be either a) a real life, in-on-it participant in the role play; or b) an actual rogue element in the 'island as a house of horrors' plot that Michael above subscribes to?

I thought it was a pretty good film. I suspected fairly early on that DiCaprio's character was a nutter, but it took awhile for my suspicions to be confirmed. The only problem that I had with the film was its length. It dragged a bit and felt like it could have been edited down a bit more.

 

Edit: I just wanted to add that although most people probably figured out the "ending" of this film, I doubt that anyone worked out, in advance, the actual end of this film which was that DiCaprio's character was returned to "sanity" and fakes "insanity" in order to bring about his lobotomization which proved that he was actually incurably insane no matter whether he lived in his fantasy or in his reality.

Edited by Edwin-S - 6/22/10 at 3:19pm

Finally got a chance to watch this movie this last weekend and enjoyed it. Not my favorite Scorsese film, but still very well done.

My only question is about Leo/Teddy being on the boat and going to the island in the beginning.

Was this explained and I missed it?

How does he end up on the boat without knowing he had been taken off the island for the role play experiment in the first place?

Wow. Shutter Island is one of the best movies I've ever seen... but not until the 2nd time around!  Once you know the end, it opens up an entirely new dimension to the movie.  Incredible acting, directing, and attention to detail all around. I won't bother to address the obvious twist and debate of the movie- read everyone else's explanations first then come back to this one.  Yes, Andrew was crazy.  While others have pretty much analyzed the movie to death and have gotten it pretty close overall, there's one thing that no explanation I've read has picked up on yet.... which adds an entirely new dimension to an already masterful work of a movie.

TEDDY ALREADY HAD A LOBOTOMY.

To calm him down enough to try the role play.  (Remember?  He's "the most dangerous patient they have")

The "final" scene, which the viewer is meant to believe is the morning after his final realization of the truth, is actually not chronologically in order.  He's wearing different clothes, which is obvious.  Still don't believe me?  Look at the trees....

The day of his realization, the grounds are utterly destroyed.  The trees have all lost their leaves, and broken limbs and dead leaves from the hurricane make the grounds look like a war zone.  The so-called "next morning"?  

It's flawless.  

The trees have their leaves, the flowers are in bloom, and the grounds are cleaned up perfectly.  And....

He no longer has the band-aid on his forehead, or the scar it was covering up (that was revealed after his band-aid comes off in the shower)!  This scar is from either his first lobotomy or the electroshock therapy given to him beforehand.

It is because of the initial pre-orbital lobotomy(which he chooses to have at the "end" of the movie) that he has his headaches and clutches his eves in pain throughout the role playing excercise. His eyes, throughout the entire movie, also have very prominent bags under them- except for the "final" scene, which was pre-lobotomy!

So what happened to Andrew in the end?  Well, it's kinda up in the air.  Throughout the movie, Dolores keeps telling "Teddy" that if he goes to the lighthouse, it will be the "end of him".  Whether this means that Andrew will die or that Teddy will cease to be, is unclear.  Andrews true final scene is less than a second long, where he falls to the floor, wearing white, while the screen goes white as well.  If this isn't a classic death or salvation image I don't know what is.  Whether he died on his own or finally got over his psychosis doesn't matter- either way he finds peace.

Scorsese is a genius.

 

 

 

 

I know this might be far off but it was just a thought. Does anyone else possibly think that Ed Daniels (or forced to be labeled as Andrew Laeddis) was actually not insane? But that through the experiences he went through inside that hospital was too much for him to bare? And like the "real" Rachel Solando said, once you're deemed insane, there's really no way out of it? Regarding the scene from when we first see his partner turning into the long-time psychiatrist until the ending scene where they were talking on the steps, does anyone else possibly think that Chuck just couldn't bear to be in this place alone (after their scene on the edge of the cliff where Ed tells Chuck that he needs to get to that lighthouse alone) and gave in to the psychological game that this hospital was playing and agreed to pretend to be the psychiatrist? That maybe under the table they had agreed to set him free if he complied? I don't know, but the last words Ed (or Andrew) says in the movie seems to be able to be interpreted this way.

Hello all!

 

First post here!  I recently watched Shutter Island and loved it.  Although at the very end, I have a question which I believe boils down to an opinion.  At the end when Leonardo DiCaprio poses the question "Is it better to live as a monster, or to die as a good man?", does Chuck understand that the treatment worked?

 

If we, as the audience, understand that DiCaprio realizes he is Laeddis, shouldn't Chuck?  Many of you might say yes, of course he realizes that DiCaprio understands and doesn't need a lobotomy, but Chuck is willing to let him go.  But in the last word, why does Chuck call DiCaprio "Teddy", instead of "Andrew"?  In my mind, calling him Teddy tells the audience that Chuck does not realize that DiCaprio understands he is Laeddis.

 

I don't know if this is a goof in scripting or if Chuck really doesn't understand.  Would love to hear your opinion!

See intriguing review of Shutter Island in the context of a New York Times Book Review front page review:

http://www.underlyingpatterns.blogspot.com/ 

Some original thoughts.

The treatment did not work, and DiCaprio's line indicates just that: he is opting for his self-image of being a good man--the agent--not the guy who killed his family.  The latter is the reality, and DiCaprio's character is opting for the defensive fantasy of a blameless man investigating skullduggery for the good of the world!

 

You are right, in communicating this line, there is a glimmer or recognition of who he really is, but it is absolutely fleeting.  The recognition is ending with the end of the sentence!  It is a line uttered by the subconscious or unconscious mind, whatever psychiatrists would label it.  They would have to tell you if patients really do that.  But for the movie, it is a necessary device to signal to the world, that the character is letting go of reality.

 

We all let go of reality.  The movie is about us.  We bury in our minds the things we do that are inconsiderate or damaging.  We prefer not to analyze them.  Did this particular behavior pattern during 10-15 years of our life, which we thought was harmless, have a hugely negative impact on our children?  We prefer not to think about it.  In living, we all create a part of our children, by encouragement of that part, and kill another part.  Hopefully it all turns out well.  Few of us really want to think it through...How good were we, really as parents.  What could they have been?  Are they successful?  Are they shallow?  Are they sensitive people who probe the world?  (Shouldn't that be the goal?)  Or do we and they just pretend that they are? 

 

Shutter Island is not soley about mental patients, though it is beautifully synced with the real transition of psychiatry from pure counselling, to dispensing the psychoactive drugs that were just becoming available at the time.  That transition is a shadow game, though, for a larger phenomenon: all of American society was turning away from the self-analysis as a way of life, pre-eminent in the early sixties, when Jack Paar was king of the nighttime airwaves, and Hitchcock ruled the movie theater and TV land, to illusions, first with drugs, then with forever more escapist media and recreational pursuits, until we come to today, when "reality show" is a code word for a narrow focus on some sort of insulated, self-indulgent  turn from what our real impact is, and what the wider world is really like. 

 

Shutter Island is about each of us, and the collective us, and what we have chosen to do.

 

As such, it is underrated, even as a four-star movie.  (Many of the reviews were very shallow, perceiving it as simply a psychological thriller.)  It is one of the great movies of our time, and in my opinion, will become a classic effort in multiple layers of meaning.  The movie is more than it seems.  (Apparently, only John Anderson's review in the Wall Street Journal fathoms this.)

 

The only movie I have seen similar to this, in its wider life symbolism, is Cool Hand Luke (1967).  Shutter Island is goes even deeper.

 

See www.underlyingpatterns.blogspot.com  for more on this.

 

 

The possibility that teddy "conspiracy theory” is true is very high and most likely because he know/investigate too much. He was lure to this island just like what his partner said.

Firstly, is there any logic to just set aside an island for a Hospital for the Criminally Insane? Secondly why would a hospital/jail only have 67 patient (there more working staff than patient, patient may have died for whatever reason)?  Thirdly is there any reason for the stand-alone lighthouse to so heavily fence? Fourth, if what they said about teddy being a patient in this hospital for 2 years is true, why in e world would there be no patients who recognise him. The staff can act all they want but you cannot ask the other 66 lunatic to coordinate a play so perfectly

And no doctor/nurse professional in their right mind would want to work on an island and no institute would want to financially support an hospital/jail (67 patient) out of goodwill for the patient unless there is something more profitable like human experiments?  

This is year 1954 we are talking about, human experiments is not uncommon. The possibility that teddy "conspiracy theory” is true is very high and most likely because he know/investigate too much. He was lure to this island just like what his partner said.

 At the start of the show, his cigarettes may have been stolen (He insisted that he had his in his pockets) and chuck offered him cigarettes that have been drugged with neuroleptic narcotics, he was already drugged before he even got to the island which may explain his headache and other mild symptoms which we observed. When they have to surrender their fire arms, look at the way terry surrender his arms and his partner. He is a pro and His partner is clearly a novice that had trouble, this also again point out the possibility that his partner is not a marshal but may be a psychiatrist like what that state or a spy/agent meant to throw terry into the plot.

The only purpose left for him to be there was to be brainwash. We had to take note that his hallucination did not came from thin air, every hallucination he had experience was based on the information that was feed to him. The paper note written “The law of 4 and who is 67”, teddy wasn’t the one who came up with this theory and neither was Rachel Solando a name he though off. This only makes sense because the doctor wanted it to.

The story about Rachel killing and drowning her three children was some information they drill deeply into terry brain by one of the patient Breene. How in the world would a prisoner/patient have access to e exact details of how Rachel killed her children especially when Rachel is oblivion to this fact, e only explanation is Breene may be one of the possible agent. And the old lady after Breene hinted Terry to run when Chuck was away. Her action may prove that she does not trust chuck or she know that Chuck was not a marshal

There are no nazi experiments in that guarded lighthouse because you would not leave any single evidence if you know that marshal are coming to your island for investigation

You know, I have built something valuable here, and valuables things have a way of being misunderstood in their own time. Everyone want a quick fix, they always do. I am trying to do things that people yourself included, don’t understand. And I am not going to give it up without a fight (This statement is clearly a threat to teddy for his interference with the doc human experiment)

Everything they said is bullshit, there is no reason to go through all this role play just for one person because he is violent, trained and dangerous. You can just restraint and locked them out .Which mentally ill criminal are not dangerous, if they are really dangerous, then all e more shutter island exist for them to allow them to live in their twisted fantasy

And it common sense that anyone under the influence on drugs/alcohol are more sceptical to believed whatever shit that is being told to them not to mention that he may be on neuroleptic narcotics. The dream he have may be based on the information he was feed at the end and under the influence of neuroleptic narcotics.

The "Is it better to live as a monster, or to die as a good man, this statement can actually imply that he can choose to live as a lunatic(acceptance that he kill his wife) or to die with his sanity.

And at e very end, his partner chuck call him teddy but not Laeddis. E role play was long over, if chuck was really his psychiatrist that was with him for e past 2 years. Out of habit or as his role as a psychiatrist, he should be more liable to call him Laeddis but not teddy.

And if we take into consideration that every single character that he interact with in the show was real including the real Rachael. Then this is e most logical conclusion, he was lure to be brainwash or to be silence if they failed to cover up for the evil conspiracy

The woman in the cave pretty much tells him that once someone labels you as being insane, there's really nothing you can do because if you try to prove your sane then the doctors will just use this as proof that you are crazy.  This is his reality, e moment he steps into Shutter Island, it is his loss, and he knows it and he accept it.