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Some questions about digital cable and DVR.

post #1 of 9
2/15/10 at 9:22am
Thread Starter 
Hi, folks.  I'm currently a subscriber to Comcast Standard Cable.  Since they're ramping up their "digital migration" and I'm steadily losing channels, I thought I might get digital cable.  Comcast's staff isn't the best at explaining stuff, so I thought I'd ask you guys a few things.  I have a standard definition 4:3 TV and I still use a VCR for recording.  I'm unsure whether I want to get DVR because of the extra expense.  

*I'm aware that, with digital cable (non-DVR), you can only make a VCR recording of the channel you're tuned to.  However, I recently read conflicting tidbits about something.  Some people say that you can set a program on your digital cable box to automatically switch channels when the TV is off, meaning that all you'd have to do is set a concurrent timer recording on your VCR to record whatever channel the box is set to.  This would allow you to record, say, a program on CBS from 8-9 and on Fox from 9-10, the same as I do now with my VCR.  However, Comcast's customer service said that this automatic channel switching is not possible with any model they offer.  My question is whether it is possible at all or if I'm just misunderstanding what the other people are saying.  If it isn't possible, it looks like the VCR's timer recording functionality is completely nullified by digital cable.

*What exactly is the difference between a single tuner and dual tuner DVR?  I've gotten confusing answers about this as well.  With a single tuner, can you watch one channel live and record on another (some say yes, others say it's not possible)?  Can you pause and rewind live TV?  Can you record things on multiple channels at different times while the TV is off?  Because these are the only things that interest me in a DVR.  Being able to record two shows at once doesn't interest me enough to pay extra for a dual tuner.

*Is it possible to record content that's been saved on a DVR onto a VCR for permanent keeping?  Do any problems arise from this such as static in the picture or sound?  Also, is one able to take a VCR recording, feed it into a DVR and record it onto the DVR?

Sorry for my lack of experience in these matters.  Can someone give clarity to these points?  I might have a few other questions soon.       
Edited by Glenshaw - 2/15/10 at 9:50am
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post #2 of 9
2/16/10 at 12:33am
Welcome to Home Theater Forum David.  I'll give your questions a shot:

Quote:
However, Comcast's customer service said that this automatic channel switching is not possible with any model they offer.  My question is whether it is possible at all or if I'm just misunderstanding what the other people are saying.  If it isn't possible, it looks like the VCR's timer recording functionality is completely nullified by digital cable. 
This functionality is in some VCRs not the cable box.  Some VCRs have an IR emitter that you can put in front of your cable box and when you have set up the VCR to correctly work with that brand of box the VCR will send the channel change command to the cable box before it starts to record. 

Quote:
*What exactly is the difference between a single tuner and dual tuner DVR?  I've gotten confusing answers about this as well.  With a single tuner, can you watch one channel live and record on another (some say yes, others say it's not possible)?  Can you pause and rewind live TV?  Can you record things on multiple channels at different times while the TV is off? 
With a single tuner you can only watch or record one show at a time.  You would be unable to watch live TV on channel 7 while you were recording a show in channel 4 at the same time.  You could be playing back a previously recorded show while you were recording a new one.  A dual tuner lets you record two shows at the same time, or watch a show live while you are recording a second show.  Both single and dual tuner models will allow you to pause and rewind live TV and make recordings while the TV is off.
Quote:
*Is it possible to record content that's been saved on a DVR onto a VCR for permanent keeping?  Do any problems arise from this such as static in the picture or sound?  Also, is one able to take a VCR recording, feed it into a DVR and record it onto the DVR?
Probably.  Assuming you are recording in standard definition you should be able to hook up the yellow, red and white connectors between your cable box and your VCR. It would be a manual process.  You would have hit hit record on the VCR, then play on the cable box.  You would NOT be able to take content from your VCR and record it onto your DVR.
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post #3 of 9
2/16/10 at 6:21am
A DVR requires a change in the way you think about watching TV.  I don't have a clue when any of my favorite TV shows come on, they are just on my DVR when I am ready to watch them.  While zipping past commercials if I see something interesting, I'll search the guide and set up a recording.

I started in '99 with a single tuner DVR.  A few times I had to use my standard receiver to watch a second show.  Boy a dual tuner DVR would be nice.  In '00 I upgraded to a dual tuner DVR.  What happens when I have three shows on at the same time?  In '03 I added a dual tuner high def DVR.  That was great.  HD shows were recorded on one DVR and standard def shows on the older DVR.  In '07 I had a chance to upgrade to newer technology DVR for additional channels.  Great.  I now have the ability to record four HD and two SD shows at a time.  Finally, in '08 I went full HD with three dual tuner DVR's.  The point of this story is that DVRs are addictive.  Everyone needs one or more. 

I always hear "But I don't watch that much TV".  Well, I don't either.  I have a few shows I don't want to miss as well as sports.  I can watch a college basketball game in 40 minutes by fast forwarding through commercials and halftime.  I can watch a football game in about an hour twenty.  My schedule doesn't revolve around the TV.  My programming is ready when I have the time.
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post #4 of 9
3/20/10 at 12:51pm
Thread Starter 
Hi again.  I started the thread and I have a few more questions.  I recently relented and got digital cable and DVR because so many channels are being taken away and you cannot adequately use your VCR with a regular converter box or DVR.  I'm not crazy about the extra cost of DVR but will give it a try.  I was shipped a Motorola DCX3400 to self install.  I understand this is a newer, sleeker model.  However, a tech had to come out and fix a problem with my wires outside which would not allow me to receive a digital signal.  During the visit he tried out an older, used model, DCT6412, as a control.  After fixing the problem, he said he could not put the DCX back on my account because once it was taken off, it could not be put back on.  As a result, he left me with this used DCT with vents all over the top (the DCX doesn't have vents but does have a fan out the back).

I'm aware that the fan in the unit stays on even when it it powered off/on standby, something I was unprepared for.  However, the hard drive on the unit makes a clicking noise similar to a computer.  If I'm listening for it, I can hear it even when the volume is at a low level and especially if a program is silent.  It's somewhat annoying and my question is whether it's normal and, if so, how loud it should be.  The functioning of the unit does not appear to be affected.  The unit also gets warmer than I thought it would (and I have it sitting free and not enclosed on top of an old, non-working VCR).  I'm also concerned with how much power this thing is going to be draining. 

Also, does anyone have experience with the DCX3400 and can you tell me whether this clicking is evident on that unit, considering that it doesn't have top vents?  If it gets too annoying, I might try and switch it out.  One more question--Do the regular, non-DVR converter boxes use cooling fans?  Thanks in advance for your help.            

 
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post #5 of 9
3/20/10 at 2:33pm
Most electronics that are designed to stay on for long periods of time and which contain components that generate lots of heat have cooling fans.  I can't swear about every cable box model, but I suspect most of them do. 

Quote:
However, the hard drive on the unit makes a clicking noise similar to a computer.

That's because a DVR basically is a special-purpose computer, and the hard drive in it is exactly the same as one that would go in a computer.  The clicking sound you hear from a computer is its hard drive, the one you hear from your DVR is the sound of its DVR.  (I have salvaged hard drives from otherwise broken DVRs and used them in computers, and replaced HDs in DVRs with off-the shelf Western Digital and Maxtor drives from Best Buy.)

Having said all that, I would call Comcast and ask them to exchange the DVR for the newer model that the should have used in the first place.  (And I don't buy the tech's explanation that once the first DVR had been on and removed from your account, it couldn't be added back.  There has to be a reset button that would return it to factory specs.  Either he didn't know how to do that and didn't want to admit it in front of you, or he didn't want to take the time, so he fobbed you off with some techno-babble and a used DVR he had on his truck.  I don't do cable boxes for a living, but I do work in IT and have been a home theater hobbyist for over twenty years.  And I know the aroma of technical B.S. when I detect it.)  

Regards, 

Joe
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post #6 of 9
3/21/10 at 12:42pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks, Joseph, for your response.  I guess I just wasn't prepared for it to make noise.  It doesn't seem right that a device used for home entertainment should make so much noise which is leading me to question whether the newer model might make less noise.  The DCX doesn't have vents on the top which might cause any clicking to be less evident than the DCT which has a ton of vents all over the top and sides.

I don't think the tech's inability to put the DCX back on my account had anything to do with factory specs, since I had not been able to download any channels to it or make changes, but rather with the serial number.  He had to put the DCT's number on my account to try and activate it and I guess once you remove a serial number from an account, it can't be put back.  I didn't ask him about it, though. 

I really would be much happier with the setup I've had for years -- analog cable and my VCR.  I don't know why Comcast and other cable companies have made basic VCR recording functionality obsolete.  Most likely the reason for this is to force people to get DVR and pay the extra price.   
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post #7 of 9
3/21/10 at 8:20pm
I now use a dedicated PC and Windows Media Center as my DVR, so I am not familiar with the new cable box models, but I have had several Motorola 64XX models.  I never heard them, but I had them mounted in a recessed rack.  They do get VERY warm, and based on my experimenting use about the same amount of power on or off (because they never really turn off or they would miss recordings).  Like Joseph said I would push for the newer box.  I think the 6412 has a 120GB HD and the new 3400 is rumored to have a 250GB HD, that means you can hold twice as many shows on the new box.
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post #8 of 9
3/22/10 at 10:29am
Lets cut through the Comcast fog.  You sign up for digital cable and rent a DCX box from them that is supposed to work on their cable system.  After you have problems with the DCX their tech tells you that their newer recorder will not work work on their cable system and replace it with an older model DCT which you are not happy with. 

I will admit I know nothing about DVR's but something sounds very fishy with the story you got from the tech.  Any equipment they rent to you should work on their cable system.   I would contact Comcast again and ask for a follow up call.  Good luck because in a recent issue of Consumer Reports rated Comcast very low for Internet, phone, and TV service.
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post #9 of 9
3/23/10 at 8:26am
Quote:
After you have problems with the DCX their tech tells you that their newer recorder will not work work on their cable system and replace it with an older model DCT which you are not happy with. 


The tech didn't say that the newer model DVR would not work on their cable system - he said that particular DCX could not be put back on the system right then and there because he had already tried to register the serial number on their network so somesuch.  So he substitued the DCT, which was apparently the spare he was carrying on his truck.  As I said earlier, the serial number thing sounded bogus to me, and I think the tech just couldn't get it to work or didn't want to take the time a reset would require.  So he just said it couldn't be done and gave David a DCT so he could get out of there and mark his ticket "completed"  What he should have done is said, "I'm going to leave this with you today so you can use your cable, and we'll have somebody out here tomorrow with another DCX and get you set up." 

 

Since he didn't, David should certainly call Comcast and demand the current DVR.  (Which I also suggested above.)

 

Regards,

 

Joe

 

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