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I need a lot of answers!! Please help/Brand new to the Forum!

post #1 of 15
1/3/10 at 6:19pm
Thread Starter 
Hello everyone,
Ok so here goes...
Me and my wife just bought a brand new house,(they don't even have the hole dug!)!
Anyways, we want a pretty intense home theatre system, so first off I will give you the equipment that we are in the middle of purchasing. The reason I need your guys help is that the builder needs to know where everything has to go for wiring etc..And what wires I will need.

T.v- Samsung UN55B8000

Reciever -Harman Kardon AVR 7550HD

Blue Ray/Dvd- Sony Playstation

Speakers- Klipsch RF-83 home theatre (package).

Ok, so this will be in our Great room which is also open to the kitchen the Great room wide is 18' and its actaully about 30' long which includes the kitchen (we have roughly about 15' of length to play around with in the great room for seating/rear speakers etc.)

So we actually want the t.v to be on the wall and the center speaker to be underneath the tv. So the first question is, how High should the bottom of the televison be from the floor (we have 9' ceilings)? I understand that the center speaker should be at ear level while sitting. I figure we will be sitting about 8' away from the televison. The reason I don't want a stand, is because I want to keep the room looking clean/large and our taste is very modern. I want the sleek/tidy  look of the televison and centre speaker on the wall.

Your all going to laugh at me at this....I have never owned a lcd/plasma/led!! We currently have a 36" tube tv!
So this being said, our builder needs to know what wiring to run in the wall for our set-up for the tv.
We will have the receiver/digital cable box/Playstation in the corner of the room. From these devices what type of wiring will need to be hooked up to the televsion? (cable/HDMI etc..) and how many of each?

I figure for the speaker wire, I will drill a hole through the floor in the corner where our reciever is and because our basement is not finished, just drill a hole through the floor at each place  the tower speakers are and the rear L/R speakers our. Have the center speaker wire run through the wall.

The next thing is, I would like to be able to stream all of my audio from my computer to the sony playstation or the reciever (which ever is easier and works best). So will I have to run a usb cord down to the reciever from the computer (computer is upstairs)? I would like whatever will be a direct hook up,mostly for the spped at which data will transfer. If anyone can elaborate on this that would be great. I would also like to stream downloaded videos/shows, but from what I understand anything thats 1080p, it becomes complicated to stream to the PS3 because it wont recognize the files etc...

So if anyone has suggestions/Recomendations, please feel free to help me out! My ears our wide open, as I only have one shot at doing this right unfortunately!

Thanks
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post #2 of 15
1/3/10 at 8:16pm
Brandon:

1.  Welcome to the forum!

2.  Deep breaths!   

The problem with wall-mounting a TV is that it locks you into a single location.  Hard to rearrange the furniture when you feel like mixing things up in a few years.  As for the position - the rules for hanging a TV are the same as those for hanging a painting:  slightly above eye level for an average person from the primary viewing position. 

You normally view a painting while standing a couple of feet from it.  So it should be hung with the horizontal midline a couple of inches above the eyeline of an average person - say 5' 8" - standing in front of the painting.

You normally view a TV from several feet away while sitting on a couch.  So the midline should be a couple of inches above the eye position of an average adult sitting on that couch. 

That makes it impossible to put the center channel speaker at the ear level of the listener, but that is less important for the front speakers than for the rear ones.  Ideally, you'd put the center behind the TV (many front projection installations do put the center and even the front left and right behind the screen, depending on how big it is.)  But this is obviously impractical with an actual television.  (And even if you had room behind it, you'd never get decent sound out of it.)   What is more important is to have the front three speakers at about the same level, so the sound isn't audibly moving around as it goes from speaker to speaker (also the reason for making sure the 3 front speakers are timbre-matched.)  My center channel is on a shelf above my TV.  (Which is not wall-mounted, as it happens.)  My left and right front speakers are on the same shelf.  The trick is to put the center in close enough relation to the TV to anchor the dialogue to the screen.  A foot or so above or below the set should be fine.  

BTW, you really should ask a moderator to move your thread to the "Members Home Theaters and HT Projects" section, because that is the area devoted to home theater construction, as opposed to basic questions about equipment and HT concepts.  (Which is really what the "Basics" area is meant for.)  Most of the members who can best answer your questions hang out in the HT Projects area and don't visit this one as frequently.  So I think you'll get more help sooner if the thread is moved.  

Good luck,

Joe
Edited by Joseph DeMartino - 1/4/10 at 8:42am
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post #3 of 15
1/3/10 at 8:56pm
Moved! .  Joe gave you a lot of good info.  I would add to plan for equipment of a specific size, but a lot of new models will be announced over the next few weeks and it will probably be 9 months before you are in the house, so I wouldn't lock yourself into specific models yet, especially for the TV and receiver.
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post #4 of 15
1/4/10 at 8:09am
Thread Starter 
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the response, and also to the moderator who moved this topic into the proper forum!

I appreciate the feedback, and your right I have not truly commited to the components as of yet, more so a rough idea as to what I want.

Really the whole reason for this topic is to tell the builder what wiring i need to run in the walls. I figure even if I don't commit to the components as of yet, by the time we do purchase them they will be similiar to what I originally was planning to get and the wiring should be the same..

We have a meeting with the builder in the next week and they need to know exactly whats happening with this. So again I need to let them know where abouts the t.v will be going on the wall so they can have exact measurements to end the wiring etc...

Thanks again guys!
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post #5 of 15
1/4/10 at 9:30am

There's a chicken and egg problem here:  We can assume you're going to have, at a minimum, some kind of Blu-Ray/DVD/CD player.  This may or may not be incorporated into a game system.  Then there's the digital cable box or DVR.  (Make sure your cable company offers units with HDMI outputs.  You might get stuck with one that only does DVI, in which case you'll need both a DVI-to-HDMI convertor cable for the video out to the receiver, plus an optical or digital coax cable to the receiver for audio.)

 

You would connect the TV source, and the disc player/game system to the TV via HDMI cable and the receiver to the TV using HDMI.  That gets you a "as needed right now" setup.  The problem with this hobby is that needs, wants and desires change over time.  You may decide to add a second game system, or a CD changer for your music.  Since you're trying to do all the wiring in-wall, my normal advice would be "install as many HDMI cables as your receiver has inputs and outputs".  We aren't dead sure which receiver that's going to be, so it is hard to guess.  This assumes that you don't add any non-HDMI components in the future.  Otherwise you would also going to have to prewire for optical and coaxial digital audio, component video and probably some analog stuff.  You're better off making the decision now that everything is going to be HDMI, period.  Do you ever plan to just "watch TV" or watch a DVD without the digital surround sound?  Plan on alternate connections to the TV for both audio and video for the cable box and/or DVD player. 

So you need HDMI from your source components and one HDMI run to your TV.  Next there are the speakers:  Three runs of 12- or 14-gauge wire (which meets local code for in-wall installation - Lowe's and Home Depot carry the stuff in 50 and 100 foot spools at a good price) for the fronts, two for the side/surrounds and two for the rears if you go 7.1.  One or two runs of 75ohm video-grade wire with RCA connectors for your subwoofer(s) 

That should really do it.  Presumably your equipment will be in some kind of cabinet, so the HDMI interconnects for the sources and receiver won't be in-wall.  Only the HDMI output to the TV and the speaker wires need to be.  (When I had a house prewired for audio, I ran everything to the receiver position and put in a wall plate with banana-plug terminations for all the speaker wires except the sub, which I concealed inside my entertainment unit.)

Regards,

Joe

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post #6 of 15
1/4/10 at 8:25pm
Thread Starter 
Hi Joe,
Excellent information!
I really don't care about audio to the television, as I doubt I will ever play the audio via the television speakers. So I take it that the HDMI cables only do the picture and not audio?

You say to get as many HDMI cables as the reciever, but should it not be the other way around, get as many HDMI  cables as the Television allows? As I will only be able to plug as many HDMI cables as i can into the tv? Unless you mean for the future if I decide on a new tv that has more HDMI inputs than my previous one.
So I take it the only wires that will be going to my television are HDMI cables? The cable company I will be using is ROGERS Cable, I don't know if there boxes are HDMI ready, I will look into that.

Thanks again,
Brandon

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post #7 of 15
1/5/10 at 7:11am
So I take it that the HDMI cables only do the picture and not audio?

HDMI does video and audio, but you don't have to use both.  Turn the volume on the TV to zero and listen to the receiver for audio.

You say to get as many HDMI cables as the reciever, but should it not be the other way around, get as many HDMI  cables as the Television allows?

No.  You should connect all your devices via HDMI to the AV receiver, then run one HDMI output to the TV.  That way you always leave the TV on the same input and use the receiver to switch both your audio and video sources.  Nothing is gained by connecting your components directly to the TV (there is no meaningful "signal loss" with digital connections) and you greatly simplify both the installation and operation of your system.  Hence my recommendation that you buy as many HDMI cables as you have inputs on your receiver, but install only one in-wall - to the TV. 

Regards,

Joe

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post #8 of 15
1/5/10 at 8:16am
Thread Starter 
Hi Joe,
So I will only need one wire in the wall, which would be the HDMI cable, nothing else going to the tv?
Other than my speaker wire that will be going to my center speaker will be the other wire going in the wall.
thanks,
Brandon
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post #9 of 15
1/5/10 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fromwithin View Post

Hi Joe,
So I will only need one wire in the wall, which would be the HDMI cable, nothing else going to the tv?
Other than my speaker wire that will be going to my center speaker will be the other wire going in the wall.
thanks,
Brandon

Yup.

Joe
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post #10 of 15
1/5/10 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fromwithin View Post

Hi Joe,
So I will only need one wire in the wall, which would be the HDMI cable, nothing else going to the tv?
Other than my speaker wire that will be going to my center speaker will be the other wire going in the wall.
thanks,
Brandon

I am certainly no expert, but I ran into this problem.  And although Joe from the previous post is correct in that you only need the HDMI cable to run both audio and video.........you need to make sure the A/V Receiver supports it. Otherwise, like me, I had to run a seperate audio fiber optic line after all my install was complete.   Also, since it's a new house, just run all the cables(audio, video, cable  and ethernet) and fo'getaboutit. 
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post #11 of 15
1/7/10 at 4:08pm
Thread Starter 
Hey Ithomps222,
The reason I don't run all the cables is because im not really building a custom house ($$$). The builder won't let you do any work from either you or private trades for insurance purposes, so we have to do everything through their trades people.And unfortunately when you buy anything through the builder they basically "rape" you to put it nicely! So for every type/length of wire you run they charge you through the roof, thats why I wanted to know exactly what I needed to keep costs down!
But I hear what your saying about the A/V Receiver to support the connections.
On the back of the Reciever im looking at it, it has 4 HDMI inputs and 1 HDMI Out to the monitor, so I think it should work.

Brandon 
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post #12 of 15
1/7/10 at 5:17pm
Brandon is correct that you need to make sure your receiver does "full" HDMI and is not an "HDMI pass-through" model.  HDMI pass-through only takes the video from the cable and sends that on to the monitor.  The digital audio is stripped out, so you still need a coax or optical digital cable from your components to the receiver for multichannel sound.  Also digital coax and optical will not carry the latests hi-def multichannel sound formats from Dolby and DTS , which are available on many Blu Ray discs.  So it is vital to make sure that all your components support HDMI and that your receiver does audio via HDMI.  Otherwise you'll need to plan the appropriate audio cable for those that don't.  (And that can be tricky because some have both coax and optical outputs while others have only one or the other, and receivers can have an odd mix of the two - rarely do they have the exact number of each that you need.  Many have only one digital coax input and many optical.  I this case most of your devices will have only coax outputs and no optical.  )

It is true that contractors will not sanction your working on their site for insurance reasons, but some will install material you supply provided it meets code.

When I was having a house built, the contractor also refused to run speaker wire that I provided, even though it met code for in-wall use, because his low-voltage subcontractor, who did the telephone and cable runs, had moved on to another job.  But what he did do, off-the-record, was tell me when the electrical inspection was passed, which was right before the the dry-wall went up, and when his guys would actually start on the dry-wall.  Whatever I did in between, he didn't want to know.  As it turned out the inspection was on a Friday and the dry-wall went up on Monday, so my brother-in-law and I had plenty of time to run the rear-speaker wire for the living room and the master bedroom.  If we'd had to, we could have done it in a couple of hours after work on a weekday, but it was definitely easier to do in daylight and without any time pressure.

Regards,

Joe
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post #13 of 15
1/9/10 at 9:25am
fromwithin:  Another option which would be cheaper that your contractor may agree to is this.................ask them to run you an empty conduit so you can run whatever wires you want yourself in the future. 
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post #14 of 15
1/12/10 at 11:55am
Thread Starter 
Hey Ithomps222,
That might be a great idea actually!
If i were to run say a 1" conduit from the t.v to the corner where my components go then I just have to shove the wires through the pipe (conduit) and attach to t.v/components. Also this is great if a wire gets damaged for whatever reason, i don't have to tear down dry wall etc...
Thanks, now I just have to convince the builder!

Brandon
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post #15 of 15
1/17/10 at 7:16am
 fromwithin:  I would only suggest you run a conduit larger that 1" diameter.    The wires have plugs/receptacles that are normally larger than the wire diameter itself.  
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