Survivor - Heroes vs. Villians (season 20) official discussion thread - Page 4

I didn't see the season James was on originally, but I'm finding it hard to see how he was ever picked for the Heroes team based on his behavior in this episode.

He may have got a little out of hand, but James was right. They agreed to all listen to J&T and people were undermining that to the extent that they lost the challenge. He was rightfully pissed off. James has never had tact though.

 Just to comment on why Parvati seemed to know about Russell, apparently she's friends with people involved in the show and got the inside scoop.

Greg:  This is actually James' third go-round on Survivor.  He was also on the first All-Stars season.

He was portrayed, originally, as a socially inept (but incredibly ripped) gravedigger from a tiny town in the southern US.  He was always quiet and unassuming.  The camera and the show's fans loved him. 

My kneejerk reaction to what aired last night is that his Survivor celebrity has gone to his head somewhat.  It's easy to make those judgments, however--based on what the producers/editors feed us. 

His "claim to fame" is that on one of his seasons he actually had TWO hidden immunity idols at one time...and STILL got voted off without playing one of them.  The producers made it seem like all the Survivors (except him) knew the blindside was coming...so the fans knew it was coming.  We were all screaming at the screen to "play an idol!  But, home he went--the loveable, quiet gravedigger. 

IMHO James was 100% correct. 

Steph has never been successful in team challanges.  Her behavior in the challange last night highlights what I think is why:  She needs to lead, or she does not feel like she won.  It seems to me like she is not any good as a follower.

I guess I was watching the same show as you and not some of these other guys. These people have all been on this show before so they know what they need to do to win. James might have been a little abrupt but I am not sure he was completely over the top. I don't remember him cussing her out or anything like we have seen on this show a 100 other times when people get mad at each other. I felt like he was just expressing his opinion AND taking up for JT who got steamed rolled by the other older heroes. My quote of the night was "she is like kryptonite draining all the heroes of their power". 

I also got the feeling last night that there are already a lot of close friendships and hard feelings amongst this group. We saw the same thing with the All Stars season. The first show went out of it's way to not overplay any of this but the longer it goes the this is going to stand out.  

Is Rob that good or are the Heroes that bad? I can't tell if he really is the best puzzle guy in Survivor history or if all the heroes are just dumb.

Rob did rise to the surface as the favorite for the villians quickly.

I'm going to say, "both".  Rob is really impressing me this time.  I thought he was a moron in Marquesas and redeemed himself in All-Stars.  But he's on a whole 'nother level in Samoa -- he looks like the best player ever.  But there seems to be a high correlation between Villians and strategy versus Heroes and physical prowess.  Yes, there is Coach and Cerie.  But in general, the Heroes tribe is physically superior while the Villains tribe is smarter and more strategic.  And now the Heroes lost Steph and Rupert is useless with his broken toe, so that really hurts them at their core.


Well, that's because the rest of the season 19 cast was so boring, the editors just filled it with wall to wall Russell.  With all the star power around him this season he's no longer the only thing to watch, so he will definitely get less screen time.  I also think you're feeling the effects of seeing Russell in back to back seasons.

like stephanie's mouth did her in???

sometimes people just need to shut the frack up.  the chick got voted off for being mouthy and STILL had to run her mouth some more as she left.  gfto.

Exactly
Exactly 

I don't care for Stephanie either, in fact I don't like anyone very much on the "Heroes" tribe.  But if you think James is playing a winning game with his mouth then I bet you also think Jay Leno is funny.  Oh.....

james wasn't going to win regardless.  his intelligence quotient, game and otherwise, just isn't there. (yeah, i said it.  same goes for rupert.)  but i think he feels that he must play more aggresively this time around as his previous two stints did not net him any dough.  

oh and conan is funny.  its just that jay is funnier. 

Nuance is not your forte'

The only hope for Tom and Colby now is to start winning immunity challenges.  That would give them the time to work on alliances again.  I was really disappointed in James;  he's been a favorite of mine in both China and Fans vs. Faves.  He was never smart or sneaky enough to win, but he was a wonder at strength challenges and fun to listen to.  I think he's changed this season because he has been stung by the "stupid" accusation he continually receives for getting voted out with two immunity idols.  He's probably trying to take a more proactive, strong leadership role to prevent that but he only comes across as bullying. 

Tom had the right idea to take Cerie out early but I fear he has already lost that chance.  The woman is a master.  She is totally useless in challenges and yet no one ever votes for her.  She plays the social game better than anyone yet never seems a threat.  Notice how when she confided in Candice (I believe), she didn't tell her who to vote for, she asked her who she would choose.  Russell bullies, Cerie is the confidant, the friend.  She told Candace she didn't care who to vote for, just so it wasn't her.  She's ready to burn down her tribe, vote out strong players, face tribal after tribal because she is confident she can survive tribals and even a merge in the minority.  I love her game, but she is pure villain through and through. 

I think Tom still has a good chance because I believe JT will keep him around. JT seems to be trying to play a strong game this time and he needs another million dollar winner in camp.

Tom definitely showed he was smart when he wanted to vote Cerie out right away. I think the Cerie, Amanda, and James group is stronger then they are showing and Cerie is doing her part to keep Candace under control.

Rupert is an old crabby man and I don't want him to stay around much longer.

From what I gathered from Stephenie's interviews, Rupert and James have let their Survivor fame go to their heads.  Apparently, they spent a lot of time talking about how much money they made from Survivor related functions and James went on and on about the chicks he banged.

If the Heroes were smart (which is something that appears to be in short supply at their camp), they would have ditched Rupert for being useless in both physical challenges (due to his broken toe) and puzzle challenges (due to dimbulb-itis).  Probst mentioned in his blog that voting off strong players based on alliances this early in the game is bad strategy and will just result in the tribe being picked off one by one.  But once again, the show illustrates how difficult it is to pull back and see the forest for the trees when you're 24/7 in the thick of the forest.  All you can see are trees.

It has all the makings of the Villains cruising to merge.  This might be Ulong and Koror all over again.  The only hitch would be someone on the Villains tribe throwing a challenge for a strategic boot.

JT would be wise to keep Tom around;  Tom's million dollar argument is a sound one.  If either of the million dollar winners faces a jury with a non-winner it's gonna be a tough sell to give a second million to either Tom or JT.  But to choose between two million dollar winners gives each a better shot. 

I think it would be easier to convince a jury to give Tom or JT another million dollars than to engineer a Tom & JT final 2.

I totally agree!!!! Cerie has the best social game in the history of Survivor. She has the ability to get into peoples heads like no other player,(I think She is a Jedi) and she uses this skill to be invisible at Tribal Council.    

Cerie's flaw is her complete inability to win physical challenges.  When you get down to the final four, you usually need to win your way to the final 2/3.  I was trying to imagine who Cerie would best take toward the final four.  It's probably a crazy thought but if she could link up with James, she could use his strength to win challenges, and he is not sufficiently strategic to turn on her late in the game IMO.  His recent behavior would also possibly make him unpopular to a jury.

My favorite player is Tom, but he won a million dollars thanks to a number of circumstances not likely to be repeated.  He was the dominant challenge winner on a winning tribe that obliterated the other tribe before the merge.  (Steph was all that was left of their opponents)  So he didn't need to face any new rivals or alliances after the merge.  He was completely physically dominant and won his way to the finals, something I don't think he can repeat.  He had the second strongest player as his ally.

J.T. is a huge threat.  Like Cerie he has the Jedi gift of likability (he was the unanimous winner his year) as well as the ability to win challenges.  He's socially savvy; no one ever votes for him at tribal.  He could be Cerie's biggest problem, more even than Tom.

On the Villains side, the commercials suggest to me that the Villains lose this week, because the clips have Russell threatening to take out Rob.  I think he's going to get his head handed to him if he tries that.  I really love Rob but he's too high profile.  Like Tom, if he's to survive he'll need to win his way to the finals with challenges.

At least Rupert has done some good with the children's charity that he started with the money he won from being a fan favorite. This was covered on the pre-season episode.

And I don't think James needs TV fame to get women. I'm sure his build will accomplish that for him.

Jay Leno rocks, BTW. Just a few more days til the real Tonight Show resumes.

But adding on that extra 30 minutes of fame (he's already had two bites at the 15-minute apple.  He's now on his third.) can't hurt, either. 

Ya know, some here might think this is blasphemy (sorry Pat) but I think that Parvati is edging Amanda out slightly in the hot department, she was lookin' damn yummy, especially at Tribal.

While I'm not as good at seeing all the different moves and strategies as you guys I am good at seeing a great episode and that was a great episode.

That was one entertaining immunity competition, how primal did Rupert look all muddied up lol?

Russell's driving need to be the Alpha male is going to bite his ass if he's not careful, possibly next week.

I liked Boston Rob's point of view on how to spot alliances, to look at who sleeps with who, that was great. I bet he knows, his alliance was so powerful he married it lol.

Later Randy.

Randy was simply a bad choice for this season.  He is asocial in a social game. 

The heros were very primal during that challenge.  They needed it and wanted it much more than the Villians.  They were feeding off each other. 

Have we figured out if people have seen Russel on the previous season?  Next weeks preview showed the entire team looking for the Idol all over the place.  Are they all just looking because they have a clue or are they doing what Russel did last season?

I've been wondering why Russell hasn't been "in search of" a Hidden Immunity Idol yet, too.

Still chuckling over Randy's analysis of Parvati's strength as a player based on her nice "wiggle." 

I might have to take back some of what I said earlier in the thread. James really might have went off the deep end.

Why did everyone vote Randy off? I didn't understand that logic.

That might've been a decision of the heart rather than the mind.  They get back to camp...everyone's worried "will it be me?"...and Randy is the easy mark because he's a very difficult person to get to know (something he freely admits about himself.  He just doesn't like people.  In his last season he said his deceased dog was a better friend to him than any person ever would be.).  Then you see behavior like Sandra's "as long as it's not me I'll vote for whoever 'they' say to vote for." 

So...Randy becomes the "easy" choice.  Not the strategic choice.

The votes will get a lot tougher for the villains after this one.

Randy is unlikable.  He had the equally misanthropic Corinne as an ally in Gabon, but no one in the Villains tribe could stand him.  They all refused to eat with him when he offered food!  That's hatred!

Maybe it was the way it was planned, but to break out such a seriously physical challenge for immunity like they did smacks of the producers trying to stop the Heroes tribe from bleeding to death so early on.  I would have bet money on the Heroes winning, but after it was 3-0, I figured it was a clean sweep since they didn't show any Villain tribe victory since the editors like to show matches out of order to increase the tension.