A new, amazing, thorough and hilarious critique of The Phantom Menace - Page 10

I had to smile when The Last Starfighter was shown as a superior example of plot development compared to Clones.

Went back and watched a few of the chapters again, and I think I was too hasty in saying this wasn't as good as the TMP one. The novelty was gone, but the skill in editing, the clip choices (not just from AOTC, but all sources), how they are juxtaposed- there is a lot of good material here very well presented.
Interesting that just like the movies he's criticizing, we are going to start coming into these with biases and expectations now.

I felt just the opposite. For one thing, I don't see the first three movies as a cohesive experience and frankly I've never been able to understand the mindsets that do. I see a huge and blatant disparity in storytelling values between SW/ESB on one hand, and ROTJ on the other. To me, these disparities flash like a big honking neon sign.
OTOH, I have no problem at all seeing Sith as cut from the same cloth as Jedi. They both share a lot of the same sins to me which for the most part has to do with how much the writer has to betray the established characters to make the plot contrivances and expediencies function.
The film moves- so there may be less to criticize from certain general standpoints. But where it all goes, and what it takes to get there, and how it all ties in and relates to the first two films ( SW and ESB aka: the gold standard) will provide plenty of opportunity for roasting.
In fact, I'm not sure you could effectively criticize ROTS without also giving equal time to ROTJ. If the contrivances and short cuts and abortive themes were acceptable in the latter, then there's no reason not to accept them in the former.

Besides, it would sort of be like poetry.  it would rhyme.
Edited by Paul_Scott - 4/12/10 at 4:50am

Quote:
Gee, where have I heard that before?  And I thought it was just me.

I would suggest that you stay out of this thread instead of striking up pointless debates with the posters who actually like these critiques.  No one here is going to change their mind that those movies are awful and deserve any and all derision regardless of how far removed we are.

And yes, we are laughing at the people who like and defend these movies (t least, I am).  Deal with it.

This made sense to me.  C-3PO can't keep his mouth shut so they have to wipe out his memory or he will blab everything to anyone.  R2-D2 has been shown he can keep a secret so they leave him intact.  Also it better explains why R2-D2 does say Obi-Wan was his owner in ANH, because he was.  Now Obi-Wan forgetting is a little odd and we just have to assume his memory isn't quite what it used to be given all those years in exile as opposed to the more expected "R2-D2, you are still around and functioning!  How many years has it been?".

The Incredibles Sam Jackson clip with the Pulp Fiction voiceover has to be one of the funnies 2 second clips ever. "English m--f---, DO YOU SPEAK IT?!"

Hey Forum Police, I'll post in any thread I damn well please whether you like it or not. It's funny that I've been a member here for over 10 years and have only had run-ins with TWO people and they both happen to be posting in this thread. Seems you're as intolerant of my views as I am of yours so why don't you take some of your own advice and DEAL WITH IT!

Probably because you're such a TPM fanboy!

I'm not an admin but the discussion was fairly friendly (especially since it deals with something of life and death importance like Star Wars) so can't we please keep it that way and leave the personal shots out of it?

Hanson Yoo and RobertR have been placed on ignore so there won't be anymore of the pointless back and forth between myself and them. Hopefully now the discussion between reasonable people can carry on.

When fanboys and Star Wars collide, there's always bound to be bad blood.  Fortunately, I have no slavish devotion to The Phantom Menace and its sequels, so I don't have to waste my time crying about how people hate the trilogy.  Let's instead discuss how well made the critiques are rather than argue about whether they should be made.  Some people are getting their Jar Jar Binks Underoos in a bunch because we're mocking their favorite movie.

jar jar binks is my fav. character in the SW universe.

Just Star Wars or Star Wars and Star Trek combined?  Throw in BSG while you're at it..

Edited by Dale MA - 4/23/10 at 9:41am

Regarding Anakin in episode I -- it's not just that he was introduced late in the movie, but that he doesn't understand what's going on or what's at stake during the events of TPM.  TPM was released as a separate movie, so it needs to be looked at in isolation from the other two when judging its merits as a self-contained story.
Edited by Ben Osborne - 4/26/10 at 6:52am

I completely disagree that there's anything in the prequels that shows them as "great friends", or even good friends.  The critique showed scenes that demolish that idea.  All we really see is a petulant young whiner, not a peer who's a friend.  Reference to other media as "evidence" of friendship does nothing to make the films better, or solve their problems.  Anakin's turn didn't feel the least bit heartbreaking because of the absence of the friendship OR anything even remotely resembling a convincing love story.  The onscreen "romance" was the most awkward, stilted, and emotionally sterile one I think I've ever seen.

 In fairness, the first 45 minutes of ROTS works hard to show the deep friendship that has now developed between Anakin and Kenobi.    It's just that TPM and ATOC had already spent too much time "poisoning the well" in that regard, so the "sudden" change in their relationship is a little jarring to the audience.  As we now know, three years passed between the events depicted at the end of ATOC and the beginning of ROTS.  During that time Anakin became a full-blown Jedi and even took on an apprentice. But the film-going audience never saw those events.

In retrospect, Lucas should have combined TPM and ATOC into *one* movie and devoted the second movie entirely on the Clone Wars.  *That* would have been a Prequel Trilogy worthy of the name "Star Wars".  
 

Lucas had a problem to start with - show Anakin and Obi Wan as master/apprentice and make it different from the norm to highlight Obi Wan's "difficulties" but also show them as friends. The master/apprentice roles in AOTC kind of make it difficult to emphasise friendship really. I think Lucas probably felt that having AOTC focusing on the master/apprentice bit with ROTS focusing on the friendship would be enough but in hindsight was probably not enough - hence the Clone Wars which does a lot to try and emphasise their friendship far more than the films do (and really well IMO). No it doesnt improve the films as a single entity (are any of the films with the exception of Episode IV expected to be viewed as a single entity ??) but I dont see the problem with referring to other media when it improves the films for the viewer who is watching the Clone Wars.

However, I agree it would have been far better to have the master/apprentice role focused on in the first film, with a whole film devoted to the Clone Wars and their friendship, followed by ROTS.

That was short but cool. Thanks for sharing.

I think that's pretty much the general accepted feeling. The first two movies really when you think about it miss all the really interesting stuff (the actual Clone Wars) and all that got relegated into animated shows for kids, lol. 

 

Granted I think there are other fundamental problems with the prequels that go beyond that. Darth Maul shouldn't have been killed, if anything he needed a bigger character arc and to be more of a deadly antagonist. 

 

There needed to be a "normal" character too .... someone who isn't a Jedi/Sith/politician ... (ie: Han Solo) who people could identify with and see the story through. Especially if you were going to make the Jedi that devoid of personality. 

Ive heard about this, but never seen it until now.....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdJ0E7HbTKc&feature=player_embedded

I saw that clip yesterday but don't understand the significance of it.

People wondered where Luke got his light saber in RotJ after his right hand was severed at the end of ESB.  The deleted scene was a bit phallic, no?  Haha.

That was a pretty cool scene. Jedi in a lot of ways is the darkest of the OT, I think Lucas changed the Wookies to Ewoks to try and counterbalance that. 

Not quite as bad as the big yonic symbol in the sand with teeth (which he later even gave a snapping beak). Could you tell Lucas was going through a divorce at the time?

A comment elsewhere explained it to me. From the murky video, I thought that was The Emperor making the saber, which didn't make any sense.

 

 

 

I said it another thread but as happy as I was to finally see that scene, I'm happier that it's not part of the movie. I think Luke walking into Jabba's palace is much a stronger entrance for his character than having him sit in a cave and turn on a lightsaber. And that Death Star hallway set isn't very convincing (they shot at least two scenes in there and both were dropped and I think the poor quality of the set was part of the reason why both scenes were cut).