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GREAT news! 3D BluRay spec finalized, PS3 is good to go!

post #1 of 77
12/17/09 at 6:17am
Thread Starter 
No competing format war for this specification means that we'll have everyone working together and competing on price.  You'll need a new TV for this to work but your PS3 will play these films just fine to their full 3d goodness, AND those without 3D capabilities can use the same disks.  Wins all around as far as I can tell.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/17/blu-ray-3d-specifications-finalized-your-ps3-is-ready/
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post #2 of 77
12/17/09 at 11:14am
That's definitely a step in the right direction. Thanks for the heads-up, Sam!
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post #3 of 77
12/17/09 at 11:46am
Thread Starter 
You bet.  I'm hoping to see Avatar in iMax 3D this weekend and hope to recreate that experience in home in the future. 

I wasn't sold on 3D in the home until we had the demo at the Panasonic labs.  All I can say to those who haven't seen it yet:  It's the real deal, you will believe!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadath/3032180821/in/set-72157608491533284/
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post #4 of 77
12/17/09 at 1:25pm
I hope they do not end up compromising the PQ/AQ for 2D playback w/ this (or would at least offer separate releases in cases where 2D quality would otherwise be compromised).  Since a new (possibly bigger) display is required (on top of the special glasses), I don't forsee myself making the jump anytime soon.

If they could get it to work w/ existing displays (like our less-than-year-old Samsung 61" LED DLP, which is capable of 1/2-res 60Hzx2 3D), then that would be a different story (for us anyway)...

_Man_
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post #5 of 77
12/17/09 at 2:11pm
We've regular releases taking up 40+ gigs of space already. The article says an "about 50%" storage increase.

Win/win my ass, I won't buy your pathetic gimmick-laden discs industry!
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post #6 of 77
12/17/09 at 3:55pm
Sigh, a whole new TV? I just got the one I have now. If I do get into this it won't be until at least a couple of years from now.

The first reason is what I already mentioned, I want to at least get some use out of my current TV for a couple of years and the second reason is I'm through with being an early adopter of new technology (been burned too many times with failures), I like to let others be the Guinea pig for awhile to work the bugs out before I get into it.

I also have a question, how large of a display would one need to get maximum impact from this? 70", 80", 100"?
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post #7 of 77
12/17/09 at 7:41pm
Thread Starter 
I'd say don't get worked up over ANY of this until you see the specifics at CES.
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post #8 of 77
12/18/09 at 1:24am
Actually, I don't really care that much if 3D-in-home (at least for movies) gets anywhere for the forseeable future.  I just don't want to see 2D quality (and overall playback performance) getting compromised by this new spec (and how it gets implemented in actual practice).

Even if PQ/AQ quality won't be compromised, there would still be the issue of how it impacts other aspects of playback.  We all know by now that BD-J and BD-Live, for instance, are no great shakes for those of us who just want to watch the darned movie (in all its HiDef glory) w/out all the extra clunkiness.  Sure, I do enjoy some extra features as much as the next guy, but that stuff can only be so enjoyable before the cons far outweigh the pros...

_Man_
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post #9 of 77
12/18/09 at 1:33am
I hear you, Man, I can't stand Java on BD, hate it in fact.

I'm wondering how this will take off, does it mean that much to people right now that they will be willing to buy a whole new TV just to watch things in 3D? I personally don't think so but I could be wrong.

For me to get into this the technology must be proven impressive and works and these TV's have to be very reasonable in price.
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post #10 of 77
12/18/09 at 1:50am
They have been pushing 3D for the last couple of years now and even with the Panasonic demo as good as it is I am still not sold on it. I would rather see them pushing the envelope for screen size at a realistic price. I think the low ends should start out at 65 inch and go up from there. When they start producing a 100 inch 2K flat panel that is under $3K I will buy it. Until then I am just fine with my 720p 50 inch set. Just because 3D has a standard doesn't mean that I will give up my current setup to buy a new display that will do 3D.
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post #11 of 77
12/18/09 at 7:23am
Thread Starter 
I'm with you guys but you have to realize that there's plenty of bigger sets out there but the vast majority of people aren't going to want bigger than 40"....  And those of you complaining about the Java, are you running Blu on something besides a PS3?  There's your problem right there =p
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post #12 of 77
12/18/09 at 4:28pm
I've got a PS3, Sam.  And the BD-J stuff can still get rather clunky at times though probably not nearly as bad as some standalones.

_Man_
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post #13 of 77
12/18/09 at 4:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Posten View Post

  Wins all around as far as I can tell.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/17/blu-ray-3d-specifications-finalized-your-ps3-is-ready/
 

I'm not sure how you can call having to replace a relatively new TV set or projection system as a win all around. Maybe for the manufacturers but certainly not for consumers. People have been referring to BD as a niche product? This is the real niche. HDTV sets have only started to reach mass market prices in the last couple years. Manufacturers now expect people to replace 2 & 3 year old sets to watch 3D films that still feel like a gimmick. This is only going to find purchase amongst the few who have to have every bit of the latest tech. I know I would normally be tempted, but having made a recent purchase I think even I'm going to sit this one out.
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post #14 of 77
12/18/09 at 5:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Posten View Post

I'd say don't get worked up over ANY of this until you see the specifics at CES.

This is what I'm referring to Edwin, truly none of us knows how existing sets will be impacted and anyone who imagined that their old set would be "3D ready" is a little too overoptimistic. nobody even hinted at that let alone promised it.  I think that a big installed base like the PS3 being backwards compatible is more than any of us hoped for and few expected...  Again tho I caution folks to see what comes to market before you get all ticked that you gotta rebuy gear...  If some sets do turn out to work with this tech then so much the better, if not oh well.
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post #15 of 77
12/19/09 at 12:17pm

Sam,

 

I believe some of us are reacting to the "wins all around" comment as much as anything else.  Like you later qualified, nothing is certain yet, except that they're claiming backward compatibility w/ the PS3.  And indeed, you even admit that it would be "overoptimistic" to assume any of our current displays will work for this 3D spec.

Meanwhile, there's certainly some likelihood that 2D quality (and general playback useability, etc.) may end up getting compromised to some degree just based on some simple math and logic (and how things tend to work out in actual practice w/ stuff like this).  Will most titles get compromised for 2D quality?  Probably not, *IF* they do it right, including making the right choices for when 3D is appropriate (and not just end up steering everything toward 3D in the future, eg. colorization anyone?).  But that can be a big *IF* w/ them.

Given the industry's track record so far, seems to me they do have something to *prove*, if they actually want us to buy into a more optimistic view of this 3D rollout (and what the future may hold as a result)...

_Man_
 

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post #16 of 77
12/19/09 at 7:59pm
Thread Starter 
All I can do is point to this Man-Fai:
Quote:
First, that the Blu-ray Disc Association has chosen the Multiview Video Coding (MVC) codec to store 3D, so that even though it is now providing a full 1080p frame for each eye, it will only require about 50% more storage space compared to the 2D version, and all discs will be fully backwards compatible, in 2D, on existing players.

My understanding is that MVC is an evolutionary outgrowth of AVC and that 2D video should be virtually indistinguishable from native AVC coding of the same material.  CES should prove very telling on that front.

A lot of folks hoped that the transport mechanism (ie Blu Ray decks, specifically the PS3) would be made forwards compatible, something that has virtually NEVER happened in this industry ever before and the knocked it out of the park by making that happen.

There is a slim chance that the same could happen for VERY highly advanced TVs but that is very very unlikely.  I don't think the general public will be surprised to find their set has to be replaced to get this feature.  The good news is that this was a banner year for falling prices on panels and that will continue for sure into the future...  So that will big time lessen the sting of moving the existing one to an office or bedroom and getting a 3D set for the main viewing area for most people.
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post #17 of 77
12/20/09 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S View Post




I'm not sure how you can call having to replace a relatively new TV set or projection system as a win all around. Maybe for the manufacturers but certainly not for consumers. People have been referring to BD as a niche product? This is the real niche. HDTV sets have only started to reach mass market prices in the last couple years. Manufacturers now expect people to replace 2 & 3 year old sets to watch 3D films that still feel like a gimmick. This is only going to find purchase amongst the few who have to have every bit of the latest tech. I know I would normally be tempted, but having made a recent purchase I think even I'm going to sit this one out.

As someone who purchased a new HDTV last year, I will definitely be sitting this one out. If 2D picture quality is not compromised at all, I really do not care -- I've never been a fan of 3D anyway. However, if this does somehow affect the 2D picture quality of BD, then I will not be purchasing any releases that are affected.
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post #18 of 77
12/20/09 at 3:30pm
While I'd love to get on the 3D bandwagon, I just dropped some serious coin on my 52BXR4 just a couple of years ago. I don't foresee buying a new set for a while.
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post #19 of 77
12/21/09 at 7:37am
Thread Starter 
Ars provides some of the technical details that are missing from the press release robots.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2009/12/hollywood-has-been-so-enthralled.ars

Check out the "Introduction to MVC" at the bottom.

I think you guys doubting the 2D quality on these disks are going to be in for a big surprise.
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post #20 of 77
12/21/09 at 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Merryfield View Post




As someone who purchased a new HDTV last year, I will definitely be sitting this one out. If 2D picture quality is not compromised at all, I really do not care -- I've never been a fan of 3D anyway. However, if this does somehow affect the 2D picture quality of BD, then I will not be purchasing any releases that are affected.
 

I think there are going to be a lot of people that sit this out. These ever shorter technology cycles are getting ridiculous. It wouldn't be so bad if the equipment that needed replacing was a cheap outlay, but that isn't the case here. Good quality video displays aren't selling for 2 or 300 bucks; they sell for 2 or 3000. Equipment manufacturers have rocks in their heads if they think a lot of people who have spent a grand or more on new sets are suddenly going to rush out and buy 3D displays in order to watch a few 3D movies. What makes it even worse is that you have to replace your entire video chain; The player, the display.......all of it. This truly will be a niche product limited to those with only the deepest pockets and/or no budgetary worries.

Also I think it is a bad idea to introduce yet another new technology to a format that hasn't worked out all of the bugs that are still plaguing it. People still have problems with discs not playing properly on various players + the loading times on a lot of non-PS3 players still seem to be lacking in speed. Maybe manufaturers should concentrate on improving the reliability and speed of the existing hardware before introducing a whole new set of problems.

I have to say, I would be royally pissed at this development if I was a theatre owner that had invested thousands of dollars in new gear for showing 3D films.
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post #21 of 77
12/21/09 at 11:12pm
^^Yep.
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post #22 of 77
12/22/09 at 5:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S View Post

I think there are going to be a lot of people that sit this out.
 


Definitely and I think because of that there's a good chance that 3-D may wither and die on the vine. There will be some people lay out the money but most people won't be willing to do that for a handful of movies. Like I said though, I do think it's a good thing that at least some of people's current equipment will be compatible.
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post #23 of 77
12/22/09 at 6:52am
Thread Starter 
On the contrary, I think that 3D in the home is CRITICAL to growing 3D in the theater.  And very high quality displays ARE available today for under $1000.
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post #24 of 77
12/22/09 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Posten View Post

On the contrary, I think that 3D in the home is CRITICAL to growing 3D in the theater.  And very high quality displays ARE available today for under $1000.
 

Probably not in the size that is likely to be needed for proper 3D-in-home presentation though -- and "very high quality" (for under $1K) is very debatable as well.

_Man_
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post #25 of 77
12/22/09 at 7:03am
Under 1,000 clams is still too much for those who just got displays recently.

Those in the know about this stuff (us) will probably get it but your average Joe is going to hear about this and immediately shrug and say "I'm not buying a new TV just for that 3D garbage."

It's going to have to fight really hard to be accepted and I just don't see it catching on, of all the HT technology out there 3D is and will be looked upon as the least needed in most peoples minds.
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post #26 of 77
12/27/09 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S View Post

I'm not sure how you can call having to replace a relatively new TV set or projection system as a win all around.
It's good news that 3D Blu Ray is being finalized. It means that when I'm ready to upgrade gear in a decade, it will actually be mature and working correctly :)
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post #27 of 77
12/27/09 at 10:37am
 I wouldnt have a problem buying a new Blu-ray player, for a few hundred dollars to get 3-D. But i would have a problem spending another $5,000 or so, on a display. My 52" Sony LCD already cost me about that much, and its only 2 years old. Not to mention my 4 year old Toshiba Plasma, and that puts me in the list of guys sitting this one out. 
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post #28 of 77
12/28/09 at 6:32am
Thread Starter 
They said color would never catch on either guys =)
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post #29 of 77
12/28/09 at 7:02am
Of course most of you who are not ready to buy a new TV or Blu-ray player will not buy a 3-D version when they come out. But, for someone who is thinking of buying one and have a choice of 3-D of non- 3-D, they will decide how well they sell. I have a 720p Sanyo projector that is on its second lamp bulb - (came free when I bought it). When that bulb goes, I will probably buy a 1080p projector. If around that time, 3-D 1080p projectors are available, I'll buy one.
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post #30 of 77
12/28/09 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Posten View Post

They said color would never catch on either guys =)

...and high resolution multi-channel music was going to be "the next big thing".
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