2010 at the Box Office - Page 4

With no disrespect to the man, I consider it luck that a film with such an unremarkable story could rocket, in global terms, to the 2nd biggest box office hit in film history. Now, personally, I thought the film was entertaining enough, but I just didn't see anything in the film that explains the level of draw that it is attaining. It was a thoroughly ordinary story. Cameron didn't bring anything new to the plate in terms of making the story fresh, beyond creating some exciting visuals. Any other director, whose name wasn't JIm Cameron, would have been critically savaged if they had delivered a film as obviously derivative as this one is, but Cameron for some reason always gets a pass. I' d call that having good luck.

I mean, I'm reading comments about people being brought to tears with this film, and I just don't get why. I watched it and in no way did I see anything so emotionally involving that I was ever on the verge of tears. A lot of the hype being bandied around about this film reminds me totally of the hype surrounding "Titanic". I heard people raving about the deep emotional experience that was "Titanic". I couldn't wait to the see the film and experience that for myself. I sat down and watched it and by the end of it I was left thinking, "WTF? Is that it? A cheesy love story framed by one of the biggest disasters in marine history? I couldn't believe it. I was blown over by how emotionally disconnected I was to the story; so much so, that I have never watched the film since. 

Now, I see the same thing happening with "Avatar", except with "Avatar" I can be more forgiving, because it is entirely fictional and therefore has none of the gravity that "Titanic", being a real historical event, should have had: but didn't. The fact is that, like it or not, my feelings about Cameron's two biggest films do colour my perception that he has a bag of horseshoes up his butt, because both of his biggest films became gigantic smashes. And yet both of them are some of the most pedestrian films he has made. Neither "Titanic" or "Avatar" are anywhere near his best films and yet they go on to make just ridiculous money. I guess it just goes to show that what people really like are formulaic, comfortable-old-shoe movies, and Cameron seems to be a master at making those; therefore, in the end you're probably right that Cameron isn't lucky. He just has a better than average understanding that people like mundane, warmed over and re-hashed tales, no matter how much they protest about the lack of originality in Hollywood. On the other hand, plenty of other Hollywood directors also tell mundane, re-hashed stories and their films never reach the monetary heights that Cameron's warmed over hash gets to, so once again I'm left with the impression that Cameron has an endless supply of horseshoes. 

Edwin - If you don't get it then you don't get it. You must exist on a higher intellectual plane than the rest of the unwashed masses. Seriously though, Cameron is obviously touching a nerve in people. To call it luck is stretching believability. He seems to have a TALENT for doing what he's doing.

No. I can't claim that. There are a lot of movies I like that a lot of people on this forum (and off) consider absolute crap. But you are right that I just don't get the massive appeal that Cameron's two biggest movies have.

what movies did you like? anything from michael bay?

Jacob

You mean from 2009?

I'm not ashamed to admit that I enjoyed all of Michael Bay's films, incuding the last Transformers film.

He's no Cameron, but his films are entertaining. Don't get the hate for Bay.

I don't go to a lot of movies in the theatre. Of the ones I did see, I would say "UP" was the best. I watched "Inglourious Basterds" on Blu. Of the few that I saw I would rank them this way:

UP (theatre)
Inglourious Basterds (on Blu)
The Hangover (on Blu)
Avatar (theatre)
Princess and The Frog (theatre)
Star Trek (theatre)
Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs (on Blu)
Transformers 2: ROTF (theatre)

There are a few I still have to watch, so things on that list would change. For example, I still haven't seen District 9. I have that rented on Blu. I just have to watch it. Right now T2: ROTF would be on the bottom and I do not see it moving up from there. I have a couple of Bay's movies, because they make good demo material for showing a home theatre.

I should be ashamed to admit it (although I'm not) but I love Bad Boys II. It's like a $150 million exploitation movie.

See, and I don't get the love for UP. Imo, it was the weakest PIXAR film to date.

Avatar, just like Titanic, will be hated by many( not necessarily here) simply because of it's popularity and boxoffice success.

Hey I even liked his one boxoffice bomb, The Island. Very underrated.

If we're going to play arm-chair shrink, I'd say those who vehemently don't get the big deal about the populist appeal of "Avatar" and "Titanic", I'd offer that they seem to display a healthy dose of cynicism and an unwillingness to suspend their disbelief, or allow themselves to be swept up by the drama unfolding before their eyes due to some self-satisfied notion that the plotline appears far too predictable and undeserving of any emotional investment in the characters in the story.  In essence, they've check out of the film before giving it a fair shake due to some really high expectations (of what, I don't know) instead of simply allowing the adventure unfold and take them on a journey filled with wonder and spectacle, be it on a huge ocean liner, or on a moon of a faraway planet in a "nearby" star system.

Thankfully, for Cameron's sake, he knows that world-building is essential for viewer investment, and with "Avatar", he has created a film that is visually arresting, it demands your full attention if you are to soak in all the details, little or large, and he's smart enough to create a rootable protagonist in Jake, and set up a story to produce drama and conflict, and allow the characters to make choices and take action for what they believe is right. 

What? No "surprises" in the plotline? If, for your first viewing, you're so focused on outguessing the plotline, you've done yourself a disservice in enjoying this film for what it offers, not for what it didn't offer.  Plus, it's a creative choice to keep the plotline predominantly linear and with "less surprises" because if the twist is all that the film ultimately offers the audience, all that work to build up this moon named Pandora for 3D immersion for the viewer is quickly forgotten by the audience, and it becomes a one-trick pony, instead of a healthy introduction to the world of Avatar.  It would have robbed the film of its word of mouth because in this climate of the internet, word gets out quick if something is worth attending for one's entertainment dollar, or not.  By electing to stay with the KISS principle, Cameron maximizes audience investment (by not trying to pull the rug out from under an audience who invested not only money, but 2.5 hours of their time watching the film), and doesn't undercut the "gotta-see-it-in-3D" visuals factor with a riskier plot choice. 

But whatever Cameron has, it's not just simply "luck" to now have the 2 films at the top of the box office mountain (worldwide gross), it's a combination of hard work in getting the script as appealing as possible, and then working the hell out of his crew to get his vision on the big screen, and being open to new ideas and creating new ways to create believable footage for the big screen.

Obtopic - Avatar made almost $7 million on Wednesday to bring its domestic take to almost $375 million.

Edwin, we'll have to disagree.  There is simply no metric by which this could potentially even be luck.  He understands what works for a mass audience, and delivers something to them that has great power.  It does not for you, but you can't catch every fish in a single net.

I am thankful that I can love Scorcese films and Malick films while still feeling the absolute joy of seeing a populist masterpiece.

Bay...the rest of you can keep   TF2 was awful garbage, incoherent and sloppily directed, with no moment of joy in it.

Just to clarify, Bad Boys II and The Rock are the only Bay movies that I'm even remotely a fan of. Other than those two, I think his work is truly terrible.

your type of movies that you like. from any decade or year. you seem to not like cameron that much.. I was just wondering.

Jacob

My earlier postings may make it sound like that, but that is not really the case. I have some of his films such as "Terminator" and "Terminator 2". I liked everything about "Aliens" except the ending. I found "The Abyss" kind of spotty and again I didn't much care for the ending(s). "True Lies" wasn't bad. I'm interested to see what he does with "Battle Angel", assuming he continues to be associated with it.

Some stuff I like:

Sergio Leone's Spaghetti Westerns with Eastwood.
Disney's classic animated films
All of Pixar's films (so far)
Connery's Bond films
Apocalypse Now
Platoon
Saving Private Ryan
2001: A Space Odyssey
Some of Don Bluth's animated films. "The Secret of NIMH being his best film.
The Plague Dogs (much better than the book)
Watership Down (though it was not as good as the book) 
The first three Indiana Jones movies with "Raiders" being the best.
Paths of Glory
Amelie
All Quiet on The Western Front
Snatch
Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels
Layer Cake
Fight Club
Wages of Fear
Kagemusha
The Hidden Fortress
Ronin

Those are a few examples

If he does those Avatar sequels, it should be about 2020 by the time Battle Angel comes out.

I dunno, it seems that Cameron and company have a lot of it figured out now, so actually film production should be a smoother ride for the upcoming sequels, and also for Battle Angel.  I'd think they could do a film every 2 years provided the script is tight and locked down.

quoting Terry from 2009 late December's post.

even if Avatar beats Titanic dollar-wise i'm interested if Avatar will beat Titanic's admission or is that another "impossible" feat? what's Avatar's current admissions?

oh&Gone W/the Wind still holds the record for #1 admissions correct? will Avatar beat that?

Quote:

did you see the special edition of the abyss. that is a much better version of the film.

Jacob

No problem. If everyone on these boards agreed with each other then then these boards would be boring. I like reading dissenting opinions. Sometimes, I can even be convinced I'm wrong. Not very often though.



Hence the qualifier about him remaining connected to the project. Frankly, I hope he doesn't become fixated on producing sequels to this film. I would like to see him do something unrelated to Pandora first and then come back to it.

well, after he made Terminator he didn't do T2 right away... so i'm guessin' Battle Angels will be next. i'm sure he had enough of Avatar for 10+ years!!! >P

he's also smart enough to bring somn "new" to his sequel. T2 reversed the ahnuld role from bad to good guy.

I'm sure he could do a movie every two years or maybe he'll do another movie before making Avatar sequels but my guess is that he won't. He'll probably take a year off (like he did after Titanic which he worked a couple years less on than he did Avatar). Then he has to write the sequel scripts. Then he has to shoot and edit each movie. Then he'll take more time off after they're released. Then he has to write, shoot and edit Battle Angel. I don't see any way that all of that won't take a decade.

I wouldn't be surprised if Cameron does Battle Angel first, and then returns to the Avatar sequels, as he's got enough material mapped out to do 2 more sequels.

Does anyone have anything indicating Cameron is still working towards doing Battle Angel period? (which was also being worked into a trilogy when he was leaning towards it being his new film)

I seem to recall he was distancing himself from it, with him staying on in a producers capacity or something like that. I don't think it should just be assumed the project is alive considering how long it has been dormant.

I heard he was prepping both films at the same time. battle angel & avatar. avatar was ready before battle.. so they did that one.. He is probably prepping to do battle angel next.

Jacob

A $13M Friday.  It's 4th weekend!

Yup, Avatar is on track for $45 million for its 4th weekend.  That's probably a record as well, only film to break $45 million in its first 4 weekends?
.

I wonder if The Book of Eli will be the one to topple Avatar next weekend?  It can either perform like The Road or 2012 in terms of post-apocalyptic movies.  It'll probably be less than in between as I don't think Denzel Washington has opened more than $30M for a weekend.

I think Cameron should do something more serious and smaller scale for his next movie just to undercut box office expectations.  At this point, if he stays in the "potential blockbuster" realm and the next Cameron offering "only" makes $300 million or so, it's a flop.  Better to do something that absolutely no one would expect to be a box office titan so he doesn't have to worry about all the bad press for not living up to box office expectations.

Or just friggin' retire.  Hell, he barely worked for 12 years anyway - just say "sayonara" on top!