STOP UNIVERSALS combo disks

If not buying Blu-ray/DVD combo discs is sufficient to cause them to fail, why do we need a petitition?

Just for the record, the combo disc fully supports the BD-50 dual layer format on the Blu-ray side.

Let's see some in action before saying if they fail or not.

Petitions don't work. These flipper discs are a dumb idea, but the only way to stop them is to not buy them. The flipper discs are bad enough, but I'm more annoyed that this format is barely out of its infancy and these studios are already starting to recycle films that were released on BD only a short time ago. The resources being used on these recycles should be going towards releasing films that aren't on BD yet. There are are massive libraries of films that haven't even had a dent put in them and these stupid studios are already starting the trend of releasing multiple editions of the same film over and over. At least, allow this format to reach some sort of maturity before starting that ridiculous business practice.

With all due respect, I owned and reviewed a number of dual-sided HD-DVD/DVD releases without a single issue, so please be cautious with such blanket statements.

I don't like them.
I prefer not to buy them.
2 disc COMBOs are just fine.

Do we really need a second thread on this subject?

Not if we can change the subject heading of the first one to include the STOP.

With all due respect, ALL of the more than a dozen DVDs I have had fail worked fine at first. It was only after months or years that they became unplayable simply sitting in their cases on the shelf.

The point being what? That we should start a petition to prevent the distribution of DVDs because some of them have failed over the years?

The OP claims that prior efforts with combo discs have been a "disaster". Neil is simply reporting that his experience is otherwise. If your point is that it's too early to tell, then we can probably agree -- but that point is more properly directed at the OP.
Edited by Michael Reuben - 12/4/09 at 11:24am

there is another topic on this new combo disc situation?

Anyway, I won't buy any of these.

I don't see what is wrong with addressing Neil's comments, as they indicate no issue with the discs when he reviewed them, which is fair enough - my point is that they may not be so fine now or in the future. The more complicated the manufacturing, the more likely to fail.

Has the Blu-ray Disc Association and/or the hardware manufacturers chimed in? It would be great to get their position *before* discs are released. Lots to learn from the DualDisc debacle.

^ The BDA must have, if they're allowed to call them Blu-ray and/or put the logo on them (we'll see if they have that). As long as both combo sides meet the associated specs, I guess they deserve the logos. Current regular BDs aren't even guaranteed to play in every BD player LOL, so playability doesn't count it seems.

DualDisc, from what I can see from the ones I have, and from what I can remember, was never allowed to have either the DVD or CD logos. They could only say they played in CD and DVD players.

And SACD/CD hybrids have both logos. The layers just have to meet the specs.

Nothing wrong per se. It just wasn't clear what your point was.



And my point is that the example of failed DVDs is not very persuasive. Yes, some have failed, but on the whole the format has been reasonably durable.

 I dont like DVD-18s, and i had a high fail rate of many Universal TV shows, and movies, that used them. Its because of my feelings of those discs, that i wont buy any of these discs. I wrote Universal to tell them about it too.

I know i am not the only person to have trouble with DVD-18s, new, or a few months old. I had many fail. Adam-12 season 1, Emergency! season 1, and the first release of Northern Exposure season one come to mind.

Fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on me.

The OP's logic is faulty.  A petition is used as a means to convince people to take positive action on something, not as a means to tell a company their product isn't liked.  You don't like combo discs, don't buy them, and urge others not to buy them.  Simple.

Jeff - My comment is merely to address the fallacy of the OP's argument. I have yet to experience an issue with any of the many combo discs I have (and still watch today without issue). I do not discount that there may be failures, but I have yet to experience any such failure. People may have many reasons why they do not like the idea of combo discs and they will let Universal know with their wallets (the best way, in my view). But the OP was using a faulty argument to make their case, and that is what I was addressing.

I'm glad you haven't experienced any failures with your discs, but how can you make the assertion that just because you haven't seen any failures (yet) that it is a false argument? There were lots of people who denied laser rot and I'm sure there are thousands of people who haven't had, or haven't discovered, their DVDs fail (yet) who believe nothing can go wrong, but when you have a few hundred dollars worth of media that has rotted away (at least that I know of, there could be tens or hundreds of my other discs that have gone bad too), you approach what appears to be a more complicated manufacturing process with a bit of skepticism.

I don't know what effect a petition would have, but I can say that I'm not going to be buying any of these until they have a long established track record, and if some awareness makes the studios rethink their approach, so be it.

I've had far more DVD 9s fail that flippers. In fact I've never had a flipper, either DVD or HD DVD fail. I quite like the idea, as long as here is only one release and not a separate DVD only.

Doug

I don't see the big deal, honestly.  Why would they not work?  Is the player going to somehow know there's a DVD on the other side instead of a label and not play the disc because it's offended?  None of my old DVD flippers ever failed.

I don't display my discs outside of their cases so the lack of a label doesn't bug me, and I always hold them by the edges anyway so I'm not going to get fingerprints on them... (and if you don't hold them by the edges you get fingerprints on the playable side, flipper or no.)

Well, there's two main avenues of problem. The first is that, depending on how tolerant the player is, it's possible that these discs might be too thick for them to play. (That one is less likely.)

The bigger concern here, as I understand it, is that these discs will start to see bonding problems later down the road--that the layers come apart or are contaminated by the "glue", and become unplayable.

They couldn't even say that.  DualDisc met the DVD spec but did not meet the Red Book CD spec.  These hybrid discs did not play in any slot-loading (i.e. car) player I tested them on when I was reviewing discs. 

Also, while some manufacturers went public with warnings, off the record I was told that the additional (albeit miniscule) weight of the DualDiscs were outside the spec for existing player transports, so playability issues and actual hardware damage *over time* was possible.

I'm sorry, but while I understand the perception that some of us are "overreacting" or jumping the gun, until Panasonic, Sony, Oppo, et al say these things are within spec for their Blu players *and* DVD player manufacturers say the same for the DVD side, I will be skeptical.

I'm awaiting to hear back from several hardware manufacturers.

If someone can provide a compelling argument that this new format/hybrid will add something of value previously unattainable in the same package without the risk of player issues, I'm all ears and eyes.

If the studios don't believe 100% in Blu-ray and/or want to reduce SKUs, throw a good 'ol DVD in the package.  Why reinvent the disc?
Edited by Felix Martinez - 12/6/09 at 8:47am

The only discs I ever had problems with over the past 12 years were on DVD-18's or HD DVD Combo's so I'm not happy about this.   If I had to guess the failure rate for me was about 30% of those types of discs.

Now if there happens to be a film I really want to own and this "flipper" is the only option available I probably won't flat out refuse to buy, but if I have any problems I'm going to make a lot of noise about it.
Edited by Jim_K - 12/6/09 at 8:44am

Because this way you can't sell/give away your unwanted disc to a friend or family member with only SD; if both of you want it, that's two sales at the register instead of one.

I don't like this force feeding option of the dual disc.

Make all versions available.
an only blu-ray version
a dual disc version
a dvd version.

Then I and everyone else can buy the one they want.

With the amount of DVDs in print, that's a lot of catching up to do.