Lost: Season Six - Page 23

Holadem,

I've never seen a flash sideways (and only one flash forward that I can recall), so I don't know.

Yeah, it could be that the sound would have gotten in the way of the flow.  I'll have to watch for that the next time I don't hear one during a flashback.

So, you actually believe that the undead guy who has lied, cheated, conned and manipulated his way through the show is suddenly telling the literal truth?  To Sawyer?  Let's just say I don't think this is the writers' problem. 

Except for the nuclear ones, most ocean-going submarines spend most of their time on or near the surface, fully submerging only when necessary.  That's because they run on internal combustion engines most of the time, switching to (limited-runtime) batteries when submerged.  (For combat in the case of military subs, to dive a wreck or explore in the case of civilian ones like Widmores.)  Otherwise they run fully on the surface or at periscope/snorkel depth, where they can easily navigate by periscope sightings and run their air-fed deisel engines instead of the battery/electric ones. 

As before, their goal would not be to navigate all the way to Australia or Hawaii or Midway, but to hit the main shipping lanes and get themselves rescued by a passing ship or close enough to a major landmass to call for the local version of the Coat Guard. 

Quote:

No.  He said that Jacob's people thought they were protecting the island from him, when all he really wanted to do was leave.  It is clear that unLocke could not leave the island while Jacob was alive, and perhaps could not do so while people occupied the temple. It is also clear that he could not kill Jacob.  (Or vice versa.  Because obviously if MiB is so dangerous, much the safest course of action for Jacob to take would have been to whack him a long time ago.) 

So unLocke manipulates Ben into killing Jacob, which is allowed under the rules and which Jacob lets Ben do - because he turns his own murder into a test for Ben. 

Now that Jacob is dead unLocke could finally enter the temple, and he is now free to leave the island.  Jacob seems to have been able to leave the island by a kind of teleportation that is much easier than that employed by Ben and by Locke.  MiB dosen't seem be able to do that.  Even with Jacob's magic removed, he's still constrained to physical realities in ways that Jacob does not appear to have been.  So actually, it isn't particularly outrageous to think that MiB might intend to fly off the island on a plane.  Assuming he can't tap his ruby slippers together and say, "There's no place like home", how would he get off the island?  It seems that the plane, the sub and the donkey wheel are the only options - and he could presumably used the donkey wheel as soon as Jacob was dead as well.  

Hence my belief that getting off the island is only part of unLocke's plan, not the most important part, and that the physical means he employs are trivial. 

Regards,

Joe

Joe, great overview.

Sorry, but I couldn't help thinking while I was reading the part about unLocke needing the plane to get off the island, the line from Star Trek V; Kirk: "Why does God need a Starship?"

So like that Being in Trek V, is UnlLocke a bad Being sent to the island as a prison. And if he gets off the island, is that unleashing some kind of bad thing on the rest of the Earth. I doubt this is the case. I'm sure this theory has already been discussed.

As far as the plain to get Sawyer to check out the plane, i also agree unLocke never intended to really use the plane.

Nowhere did I say or imply that Smokey's stated plan for leaving the Island was outrageous or any variation thereof. I said it was underwhelming. That's not a commentary on the possibility or rationality or realism of his plan.

--
H

Not sure if you are trying to comment on the relative ease/difficulty of piloting a sub, but I've oddly had the chance at operating an ODYSSEY sub, as well as another model made by ISE (at West Edmonton Mall, ISE made a handful for subs for a tourist attraction).  I'm not a submariner by any stretch of the imagination, but I found them pretty complex--even the WEM model which was effectively "dumbed down."  I actually found it harder than piloting an aircraft (which, admittedly, my skill is, to quote the great Dr. Jones "Fly, yes.  Land, no!").  It's certainly not something you could pick up in a few minutes, with armed and angry people after you.

At least the plane has potential pilot, and even Jack "took a few flying lessons."

Of course, it's pretty much all silly, since I doubt either will ever come into play in the way we think.

Oh.  I'm sorry.  It must have been some other Holdaem who wrote this:


(Emphasis added.)  Maybe you were referring to some escape scenarios other than the ones you described in the paragraph that immediately preceded that line.  Or maybe you don't consider "absurd" to be a variation on "outrageous" in this context.  But to me, characterizing the two escape scenarios as "absurd" does seem to be  "a commentary on the possibility or rationality or realism of his plan."

Regards,

Joe

It is pretty absurd, although I guess it's reasonable to think one of Locke's crew can pilot the sub well enough.

Ha. M'kay. That last thing you quoted was a throw away line. it's more of an expression of my frustrations with the episode than anything else. I understand there was no way for you to know that. For the last time, my only beef with his plan was that it was pedestrian. I can believe that he was lying, as some have pointed out.

(But while that was not my point, yeah, trying to escape with that plane is absurd, unless Smokey's powers are vastly superior to what we've been shown so far -- or this particular plane can reverse and take off from a beach. :-P)

--
H

Weren't the front windshields in the cockpit shattered too, and that's how the co-pilot died?  From branches or something that pushed through that?  I can't remember.

I didn't mention this yesterday, but since you're still talking about the jet...

I think the jet engines are suspect now. They're pretty sensitive to not only birds, but I'm sure the sand on the beach probably blew into the engines while it's been sitting on the beach. And they did show some foliage blown into the fan blades. And not to mention the fuel, I wonder if it's still good. And then as was mentioned above, how do they turn the plane around and take off on that sandy runway! Maybe they could do what Jimmy Stewart and crew did in the "Flight of the Phoenix" and rebuild a new plane from the parts.

Well. Apparently some aircrafts, including a few commercial ones, CAN reverse on their own, using a form of reverse thrust, but it carries some risk and is not routinely done: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerback. I thought thrust reversal was only used to slow down at landings. So theoretically, if it were not on a sandy beach but on a better surface, a plane with that capability could actually make a U-turn by itself, without needing to be pulled.

--
H

They wouldn't even necessarily need to use engine power to put the plane in flight position if unLocke really meant to use it.  (Or convince someone that he intended to use it.)  If there are any trucks or jeeps still in running condition on the Hydra island they can tow the thing back onto the runway and far enough back for a take-off. 

Planes need more room to land than they do to take-off, and Lapidus damned near landed the thing perfectly.  It barely ran off the edge of the prepared runway and into the sand.  Don't forget, the people on Hydra were engaged in buidling a runway because they were expecting a plane, and that's what Lapidus was aiming for.  If there had only been sand, the plane would not have rolled on its landing gear at all.  I would have sunk into soft surface as soon as it made contact and the plane would have probably been ripped to pieces by the impact.

As for the engines - were they even running when they put the plane down?  I thought the reason they made the emergency landing in the first place was that the engines had quit - in which case the compressors wouldn't have been turning.  Sure, sand and crap may haven blown into them since, but they could probably clean it out.  The whole plane idea may be a bit more plausible than I gave it credit for, now that I think about it.  If they can seal the co-pilot's window, even with something opaque, they can fly.  Even if the can only cover it to keep out the wind they can fly at lower altitude, but that will limit their range as they'll burn more fuel that way  They'd be much better off if they could pressurize the cabin again. 

I'm totally lost in the chronology at this point.  How long has it actually been since the Ajira flight crashed? 
Regards,

Joe

Holadem, Travis,

We're sixteen episodes into the third season at this point (second time through).  We watched Left Behind and One of Us tonight (season three, disc 4).  Do either of you know if it is revealed whether Juliet had anything to do with Ana Lucia being shot by Michael?  Thanks in advance. :)

^^^

 

Thanks Travis.  I figured that with Ben and all of his planning (including having Juliet infiltrate Jack's group under false pretenses), and with Juliet having a reason to kill Ana Lucia (assuming she knew that Ana killed Goodwin), that it was at least a possibility.  And she probably did know this, given that the Others know just about everything about everyone.  BTW, I heard the name of 'Jacob' tonight (maybe for the first time).  If it occurred in an earlier episode, I could easily have missed it.

I thought this week's episode was good, although I do think it's time to start laying out explanations already. I enjoy the ones that focus on Sawyer, and his flash-sideways character is every bit as interesting as the Sawyer we have come to know. I might have mentioned it in one of the Lost threads here, but given the right material, Holloway could be a huge movie star, like Harrison Ford huge.

The problem with so many episodes this season is that we keep expecting resolution to the various threads and questions that have popped up over the years. As each week goes by and we don't get any (note to writers: No more questions at this point!), we end up not satisfied.

Im rewatching Season 3 at the moment and first mention of Jacob is in the room where they are trying to "brainwash" Karl on Hydra Island - One of the images that flashes up has a message with Jacob's name on it - something like "Everybody loves Jacob" I think
Also it was first episode where we saw Richard Alpert was in a flashback with Juliet (the one where here ex husband gets knocked over by a bus)
Really interesting watching the show again as Season 6 rolls along as I had forgotten so much.

I'm not sure why people are expecting this.  I'm not expecting any real resolution to this stuff until the last couple of episodes.  That's when stories normally pay off all the stuff they've been setting up - right at the end.  With so many episodes to go, we're not quite out of the "setting stuff up" phase.  The various pieces are still being moved into place on the chessboard for the final confrontation, which is what is really going to resolve everything.  (And since we're still at least one major piece short, I'm cool with waiting for answers.) 

Regards,

Joe

Simon,

Yes, thanks.  I wasn't certain if I had heard the name before, but during the images in Room 23 makes sense.  It will be fun to view the special features for this season once I get there.

If I recall, the exact line was "God loves you as He loved Jacob."

And the first time we hear a character mention Jacob is when Jack is operating on Ben, and Tom Friendly says something like "Why are we trusting Sheppard, he isn't even on Jacob's list!"

There was the one episode where Kate was being held in the barracks, and Juliet is coming to bring her food.  Kate hides by the door and tries to get the drop on Juliet, and Juilet totally owns Kate with her Kung Fu powers.  I always thought that one moment was very out of character for Juliet, especially after we learn more of her backstory.

Coincidentally, I saw that episode last night ("Kung Fu Juliet" ). Kate exacts revenge a bit later while the two of them are handcuffed in the jungle.

Speaking of Juliet's backstory, I was beginning to think she was a Vulcan until I saw One Of Us again. She showed more emotion -- and obviously for good reason -- in that one episode than in any other, I believe. Her stoicism was absent, and from my point of view it was quite refreshing to see that side of her for a change.

I'm pretty sure that was a promo for a Mark Pellegrino sitcom spin-off that never went anywhere.



Which, in context, is as likely to refer to the Biblical Jacob as to "our" Jacob, except as a bit of foreshadowing or metaphor.   It is really worth reading the whole story of Jacob and Esau, beginning with Genesis 25 and running at least through Genesis 33.  Obviously there is not a one-to-one correspodence between Lost and the Biblical narrative, but just as clearly the writers intend for the story of Jacob and Esau to inform that of their Jacob and his antagonist. 

Regards,

Joe

People are expecting more resolution and fewer questions at this time because it's A LOT of stuff left to wrap up and they are nervous it may not get done. And I am not talking little things. I just watched "This Place is Death", where Smokey attacks Rousseau's team, where she kills the rest because they are "sick", where Charlotte dies while the Island is still skipping around, and where Locke goes into the well to turn the donkey wheel. This late in the game, I still have no idea what the sickness is or if there is even one, who Christian is, why he can't help Locke, why the O6 MUST come back etc... major stuff. That's just one episode.

Also, LOST finales are typically heavily plot-based affairs that resolve some narrow practical issue setup at the beginning of the finale, or one episode before. Ya, they have answers, and often some momentous ones, but most of the finales are consumed with getting one group from point A to point B while another simultaneously ensures that some button is pushed or some antenna is enabled/disabled, and Kate shuttles back and forth doing her "I am going back with you / you're not going by yourself" thing and blah blah blah... I expect the series finale to be similar.

I think it will take more eps than the last few ones to resolve all the major stuff. The next one looks like a good... candidate for that. Of course in typical LOST fashion, Richard hinted last time he knew a lot less than we all thought he did (Jacob essentially told him squat.) So once again my expectations have been tempered, and I only hope to learn his origin in this coming ep, rather than get answers to the "big questions."

--
H

Well, the finale is 3 hours (part one, then two and three back-to-back the following week), so hopefully they will put it to good use.  Also, a few of the answers might solve more than one questions, which will also speed things up--for example, the sickness might be explained, and then we're told that's what affected Christian, and that it was also why he couldn't help Locke.  Obviously that makes no sense (or does it?), I was just using it as a quick example.

Hopefully the last 5 episodes will be nothing but answers.

Is it possible that there is no sickness, and that Rousseau's team essentially turned on one another because of some form of PTSD? They endured a storm, washed up to the Island in a lifeboat, where they encountered a Korean man who later literally vanished into thin air in front of them, and were pursued by a nightmarish smoke monster who tore out their buddy's arm -- much of this in a matter of hours. That's enough to make many anyone question their sanity.

--
H