Lost: Season Six - Page 22

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I thought he was talking to me. 

Guys, I don't know if any of you have discussed this before or not, but do you think it's possible more than one Smokey entity exists on the island ?

Regards,

Last night's episode bored me. I'm starting to view the flash-sideways segments as filler for a season that probably doesn't really need 18 episodes to wrap up. How does all this L.A. alternate-reality stuff fit into the grand scheme of the series at this point?

My take on the flash sideways is that we are seeing each character's alternate reality if they had chosen a different path rather than the one they were on before encountering the island. Lost is about redemption and choices and the results of those choices. Sawyer was a con man pre-island and now is a cop in the alt. world, he even said he could have either chosen criminal or cop and he chose cop. Which reality actually happens for the Losties is still to be determined based on events occurring on-island  between (un) Locke and his people and Jacob and his people.

My wife asked me after it was over if it answered any questions for me and I honestly couldn't say but I think it did advance the story-line somewhat.

So, now we have three groups battling things out - Smokey Locke's group; Widmore's group; and Jacob's Followers.  Our 815ers are mixed up with some in various groups.  At one time in the past I thought it was going to be just Widmore vs Ben, but that was turned around last season. 

As of two weeks ago, the flash sideways was no longer directly in parallel with that of the first season (Kate, Locke, Jack, Sun, Charlie, Sawyer, Sayid, Claire ...).  We've had this season - Kate, Locke, Jack, Sayid [strangely enough in an episode titled "Sundown" in contrast to "House of the Rising Sun"], Ben, Sawyer.

I'm having issue with how Widmore's group plays into this at all.  Earlier, Linus had made it clear he had thought that Widmore had "Broke the rules" by killing his daughter, appearing in his bedroom to tell that.  Widmore noted that he didn't, and that the rules still stood, blah blah they couldn't directly attack each other or something to that effect.

 

Now I'm wondering what "rules" were established if Widmore is basically his own agent, not fighting for either of the sides.. I don't know, very confused as to where we are right now.

Just a comment on flashbacks, flash forwards, and flash sideways.  I really enjoyed the sound effects that were used for much of the first two seasons whenever we had a flashback (and when we flashed back from someone's flashback back to the island).  It sounded like the rumbling of the 815 jet's engines.  Unfortunately, they stopped using it (or used it sporadically) after that.  I rather liked how it signaled a flashback.

Can't say I found this episode particularly illuminating either. And Smokey's end game was rather underwhelming. I mean really, that's the plan? Flying out of there with the Ajira plane? Eh...

Also, exactly how easy is it to hijack a sub? It ain't like you can see where it's going... Yeah, I know Sawyer has done it before but the circumstances were different.

I'd like less absurd escape scenarios and more answers... (I know I know. Just a little frustrated.)

So apparently Smokey can just leave the Island like a normal person. Given that boats and subs have been leaving the Island for decades, he could have impersonated his way onto one of those boats/subs with relative ease (even if it must be a dead person.) But Jacob was probably the obstacle then.

Did Smokey say that Jacob or the others were there to keep him on the Island, or something to that effect? I am not sure.

Sawyer's bargain with Widmore was pretty strange. Why assume that Widmore intended to kill Smokey?

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H

So it appears the others who left the temple in time are indeed Locke's followers. I didn't think this would be the case since they're supposed to oppose the smoke monster but now when I think about it, it does make a little more sense: It appears they don't know he's the monster, and Locke is supposed to be their leader, so...

Un-Locke's talk about his mother is probably foreshadowing for some heavy backstory to be told later. He said things could have turned out differently if his mother wasn't crazy - maybe Smokey is Jacob's brother and their mother favored Jacob over him? Maybe the animosity between them originated as sibling rivalry?

One thing I wonder about; does Kate know that "Locke" is not Locke? I don't remember seeing anyone telling her this, while they've made a point of showing the other characters finding that out.

I have a feeling Smokey himself is rather unhinged. Although that would be one hell of a cop out from the writers "You spent all those years looking for patterns, but there weren't any, the thing was just batshit craaayyyzaaayyy", it would also explain a lot.

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H

Actually the flash sideways effect is a mixture of both the flashback and flashforward sounds, played slightly broken up (so it stutters), and sped up greatly.  To me, it sounds the *most* like a jet engine starting up.

I think Kate knows Locke is Smokey.

It was odd how I didn't expect Sawyer to do what he did, that is, he is playing Widmore and Locke. Both of them must know. Perhaps they knew Sawyer would double cross them as a means to set-up the confrontation.

I get the feeing the sideways flashes we are seeing are what the Losties lives will end up at the end of the series for everyone who is not selected to replace Jacob. It's a way to wrap up the characters eventual fates.

 With all this discussion on the noises for flash-forwards, sideways, and backwards... I just want to know why the smoke monster sounds so mechanical if now it's a living thing.   I could be mistaken, but to me it sounds identical to the beginning of an old wooden roller-coaster as you're being brought up to the top of the first hill.

Yeah, but what is Sawyer knows they know he knows they know.  Ya know?

By the way - looking ahead on my DVR - the next episode apparently will run over a few minutes past 10 PM.

LOL!  I was gonna say the same thing :D  The fact is, Sawyer doesn't give a hoot that they know, etc.  Because HE knows they are gonna get it on and when they do he is going to do what he does best - look out for Sawyer.

Of course, his noble soul will interfere and he'll be forced to help someone or sacrifice himself to save someone.  I love Sawyer.

Good call, Neil.  Mine is showing 8 minutes over.

I was thinking about this the other day.  I remember way back in Season 2, I think, the actual dialog escapes me but I think it was Eko and Locke having the following conversation:

Locke: "You saw the monster, too?"
Eko: "I saw it."
Locke: "It was a **don't remember what he said**?"

Eko: "That is NOT what I saw."

Only Eko's last line is firmly entrenched in my memory, I can't remember really how the rest of the conversation went.  I think that is the only time in the series that it was hinted at there might be two separate beings. 

Also in the Season 3 episode where Kate is handcuffed to Juliet and they are beating eachother up in the jungle, the smoke monster comes chasing after them, and when they are hiding in the trees, there are several bright flashes of light, like camera flashes.  This is the only time we've seen that happen with Smokey as well.

Okay, anything of import re: Watership Down? It's been so long since I watched that I don't remember a thing about it.

Worst ep. of the season. Strange funky boring ep.

And agree totally with Holadem as far as Smokey's Plan. WTF. It's so pedestrian.

Do you guys really think Smokey's plan is to fly out on the Ajira plane?  Come on!  How long have you been watching this show?  He just told that to Sawyer to get him to go over to the island.   He even admitted when Sawyer came back that the plane isn't why he sent him over there.

They have come up with a distinct sound for each, flashback, flash forward and now flash sideways. I like that the flash sideways kind of has a warble effect, like something isn't right.

Edit: looks like others posted the same thing.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

If the flash sideways are indeed an epilogue, than I think it's likely no one will replace Jacob and the game will have ended, the entire series being what Jacob had described as "progress." 

Unless the final candidate is either a new introduction or the surprising reveal of secondary character, we've already seen all of the remaining candidates in the flash sideways (Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Sayid, Jin or Sun). Ilana said there are six, and at the lighthouse we saw Kate's name, which was not yet crossed out. I believe she is the sixth candidate but that Flocke omitted that reveal in his conversation with Sawyer. 
Edited by Tim Gerdes - 3/17/10 at 2:29pm

Locke: "I saw a bright light. It was beautiful."
Eko: "That is not what I saw."

Ahhhg.  I haven't watched the last two shows yet and there are 355 new posts in the thread, they must be good!

I think there is probably only a single smoke monster. Based on what we've seen, he can materialize as different entities and is capable of reading a person's thoughts or perhaps their souls. I think the reason that he manifested as a bright light to Locke is that he had already selected Locke's body as a vessel in which to manipulate Ben and kill Jacob. Locke couldn't be afraid of the island or the Man in Black's plan wouldn't work. He needed Locke to be in communion with the island, so he showed Locke something very different that what Eko saw.


I don't think that he's crazy, I think he's incredibly manipulative. Because we've been told that he cannot kill them outright, the Man in Black has basically approached each candidate, and used his knowledge of their flaws and weaknesses to manipulate them into doing his bidding. I think scolding Claire after she had attacked Kate was set up to earn Kate's trust, as was his story about Aaron and crazy mothers. He manipulated Clare by blaming the Others for Aaron's disappearance.

Ultimately if the Man in Black loses the "game," it will be because he misjudged one or more of the candidates in his manipulation of them.

I also don't believe he really intends to leave the island by airplane, if at all. Just because we're getting answers doesn't mean we should trust the source.

OK, not my favorite episode either, but it's like the X-files for me ---> even the bad episodes are better than anything else on TV. 

 Josh and Lynx,

Thanks to the both of you for your insights.  You’ve piqued my curiosity about something else now.  Since you have mentioned how the sounds of the various flashes (forward, backward, sideward, etc.) are either distinctly different or (in the case of a flash sideways) a mixture, I’m wondering now if the absence of such sounds during a flashback -- and we know that these occur sometimes without accompanying sound effect in the earlier seasons -- is perhaps indicative of something else altogether?  It seems a bit odd for these segments (i.e., those without any sound effect accompanying the flash) to have been an oversight, especially with a show that is so careful with regard to continuity as is Lost.  Food for thought, maybe.

Edited by Ockeghem - 3/18/10 at 10:50am

The flash-sideways sound is clearly different, and yes, feels like something ain't quite right. I like it. But I never noticed that the flash back sound was different from the flash forward sound. Is it really?

As for the absence sound preceding a flash back, I've always thought it was done sometimes to avoid the sound getting in way of the flow of the scene.

Speaking of sounds, heard a cash register printing a receipt the other day, it sounded eerily like Smokey.

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H