Lost: Season Six - Page 7

What he said.  That's the only reason I remember him.  And I never would have known the character's name if that other dude didn't keep saying it.

For what it's worth, here is a screengrab of the scene in question.  I'll defer to anyone who has had an ultrasound before, but it looks to me like the date is meant to be the *current* date, not the estimated date of birth (people can have ultrasounds when they aren't even pregnant, as an aside).

If I'm right, and the date is the current date of the flashsideways, then it is exactly one month after the the date of the 815 flight/crash in the prime timeline (I think it's fair to call that the prime timeline).  Is this significant?  Another question! :)

You and me both.

The issue of the date on on ultrasound was brought up on the Washington Post's weekly "Lost" chat.  Chatters with personal ultrasound experience stated that the date displayed is the date of the ultrasound.  Two theories developed:  either the odd date is significant or the prop guy screwed up.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2010/02/04/DI2010020404446.html

I don't like "prop guy screwed up" answer. This is lost, we scrutinize every tiny detail. You would think that something as big as a date would be checked and double checked. So I'm inclined to think it was intentional.

I always enjoy the show but I thought this last one was slow. Why after all of this time would the 06 let the Others take Sayid off and torture him? Jack was just a man of destiny and about to jump off a bridge a couple of weeks ago Island time and now he just lets Sayid get beat up? I found this very confusing. Also at the end of the premier when Jack started to get into it with the Others how come none of O6 were helping him? I just didn't like how everyone seems divided all of a sudden.

I'm glad they are bringing the sickness back up from the first season. Nice to see some of the old stuff coming back into play for us long time LOST watchers.

A few things:

- Dogen enters the scene and says he needs to speak to a newly-healed Sayid.  Jack says "no," and that he wants answers first.  Jack and Miles and Jin make a move, and meet with resistance in the form of gun-toting Others.  Sawyer snags a gun and fires a shot off, saying he's leaving the temple.  Dogen says that everyone has to stay behind, and that he won't hurt Sayid at all--he just wants to talk.  Sawyer says something like "he's not my friend," and leaves.

- While Sayid is being taken to be "tested," Jack is held at gunpoint, and Aldo tells him to chill.  This is when Kate and Jin go after Sawyer.

- Jack has no choice but to "let Sayid be tortured," which of course he has no clue is happening, anyway.

- Sayid comes back and reveals what happened.  At this point Jack sends Miles and Hurley to the "food court."  Jack is majorly pissed, and storms to the guards, clearly looking for a fight.  The guards let him by, suprisingly.

- Jack confronts Sayid and wants some answers.  He's told about the "medicine," and takes it to Sayid, but doesn't give it to him.

- Jack brings the pill back to Dogen, and wants some answers.  He gets a few, after attempting to take the pill, which is poison, himself.  We then learn about the "claiming" of Sayid, and how it also has happened to Claire.

So, in sum, the reason everyone let Sayid "get tortured" is because, well, they didn't.  First, everyone was either restrained physically or at gun-point, and second, they were reassured (also at gun-point) that Sayid wouldn't be harmed.  Why did none of the O6 help Jack?  Well, Kate was already gone, chasing after Sawyer, Hurley (along with Miles, who isn't an O6) was sent away by Jack, and Sayid was a little busy being claimed.

Also, at the end of the premiere, nobody is in a position to help Sayid: Jack tries, but is restrained, and Hurley looks like he's in shock (typical for the character).  Miles and Sawyer aren't even there yet.

Jack was a man of destiny, yes. But he believed that destiny was to detonate a nuclear bomb and reset the timeline. At least in the island reality, this did not happen.

Not only has Jack lost faith in himself, since his plan seemingly did not work, but the other castaways have more reason to doubt Jack. He's out of ideas. Hurley took charge to get Sayid to the temple, Sawyer is bitter about Juliet, Jin wants to reunite with Sun, and Kate may still be harboring some resentment that Jack wanted to erase their shared experience/memories with the reset. They are divided, and with different agendas. 

Besides which they're outgunned, and as several of the players have mentioned, the Others seem to be protecting them.

If you honestly think Jack--or anyone else for that matter--could have saved Sayid, well clearly there's no explanation that will convince you otherwise :)   I don't think it's a case of "defending" the show, but rather a reasonable interpretation of the events.  This isn't 24.  *This* Jack doesn't snap three necks in quick succession, kill two more guards with kitchen utensils, and then shooting three more from the hip.  The fact that he's a doctor (with so little social life he couldn't save his own marriage) who can even do half the stuff we've seen him do (he fired a few impressive shots in New Otherton) is remarkable.

I didn't have a problem with the survivors not helping Sayid... Jack especially, who has been demoralized after his hydrogen bomb scenario "appeared" not to work. He is treading water at this point, and is probably suicidal, too. Kate (gone) doesn't care about anything but finding Claire. Sawyer (gone) just wants to mourn Juliette. Hurley is lovable, but useless in "action man" scenarios. These are not people with the proper motivation to stand up against armed guards in their own compound.

The "picking up Claire in the cab" scene was truly absurd. I can suspend my disbelief when it comes to survivors in the X-timeline "recognizing" each other, but take another look at the scene where Kate orders Claire and the driver out of the cab... Claire is clearly traumatized. She's shaking, screaming, hysterical. And then a little while later, she's just hanging out by the side of the road. A pregnant woman being held up would immediately go for help, if not for her own safety, then the safety of her baby. And who wouldn't help a young pregnant woman in distress?

The whole thing just rings false. There's no "moment of recognition" like Kate with Jack at the airport, just this sort of "why not" vibe. "Hey, what's up, gun-toting psycho lady. You threatened to kill me. I'm pregnant. Let's go for a ride". For a show so "on it" most of the time, and in the final season, this was very disappointing.

We'll probably see more of dark Claire next week. And unless they do something, dark Sayid may not be far behind.

Maybe the infection is what gave island-Ethan such super-powers back in the first season.  :)

I rewatched that episode earlier today and I can't believe some people made such a big deal out of it. He punched an already hurt Jack a couple of times and ducked away from one of Jack's punches. That's pretty much it. Hardly what I'd call "super powers".

A pregnant woman in a strange country who has just had the hell scared out of her might very well run to the protection of the family she expects to take her in first, and deal with the police later.  The crazy lady with the gun is gone, after all, having released Claire unharmed, and neither she nor her baby is in any immediate danger.  So she waits at a handy bus stop for a ride to a place of safety.  Doesn't seem so wildly improbable to me.


Doesn't bother a bit.  Claire was always a bit of a flake in certain respects, just going with the flow of life.  And I think there is a moment of recognition, when they first look at one another in the cab. 

Also, Kate didn't especially come off as a "gun-toting psycho".  Gun-toting, certainly, and desperate, but if she'd been a psycho both Claire and the cabbie would likely be dead.  The fact is that Kate drove Claire to someplace relatively safe and let her go, and later returned with her luggage after realizing her "victim" was pregnant - putting herself at risk in doing so.  With her handcuffs gone and in different clothes, Kate is obviously less frightened and panicked than she was at the airport, and is clearly trying to do the right thing by Claire - which she doesn't have to.  If Kate had meant to kidnap Claire and hold her hostage, she would have already done that.  She didn't.  So it isn't implausible that Claire would accept her returning to offer help.  (And note that Claire didn't just jump right into the cab.  She hesitated, and Kate basically said, "screw you, do you want the ride or not" and only after further evaluating Kate and her state of mind did Claire agree to get in the car.) 

As for Kate not ditching the cab - why commit another violent car-jacking that could easily go wrong.  (Does Kate know how to hot-wire a car? Have we ever seen her do that?)  She has wheels to get out of the immediate area, and she can always ditch it later and try for something else.  Also it has Claire's luggage in it, which she has decided to return.  It would have been stupider for her to try to steal another car and then spend the extra time transferring the bags than to drive around in one of thousands of fairly anonymous yellow taxis in the city.

Regards,

Joe

P.S.

Did I miss the part where The Others announced that they were going to torture Sayid in advance?  Because in the broadcast I saw, they just said they had to talk to him.  Why are so many people ticked off that the survivors "failed" to go all Rambo on The Others in order to prevent something that none of them had any reason to suspect was going to happen?  The time travel stuff is over and I don't think any of them has the ability to see the future, so I don't understand how this is supposed to be anybody's fault.

J.D.

I'm not in the camp that thinks there should have been a mini-revolt, but I think I remember the others all but forcibly taking Sayid and saying no one else could come  Maybe folks are just saying the losties shouldn't have allowed Sayid to be taken like that by the others given their dubious track record.

I'm trying to be mean in these responses, but seriously, people need to watch the show before complaining about stuff.  Here is a breakdown of the scene in question:

- Jack, Hurley, Kate, Sawyer, Jin, and Miles are in the courtyard with Sayid.
- Kate and Sawyer are off to the side discussing "making a break for it."
- Jack and the rest are looking at Sayid's fastly-disappearing scar.
- Dogen and crew burst into the courtyard and set up a perimetrem while Dogen and Lennon close in on the Sayid.
- Jack moves to block the path to Sayid.
- Dogen says that they need to take Sayid inside and talk with him.
- Jack says they aren't taking anyone anywhere--not until they answer some damn questions.
- The question Jack wants answers is "WHO ARE YOU GUYS!?"
- Dogen says that he can have all the answers after he's finished talking with Sayid.
- Jack says he gets the feeling that Dogen isn't going to answer anything after he "talks" with Sayid.
- Dogen's gives a nod, and his screw make a grab for the LOSTies, while at the same time, the LOSTies engage the Others.  Jack punches the big guy and goes for a gun, Jin tries for a gun, and I think even Miles struggles with an Other.  In otherwords: THEY FIGHT BACK.
- Sawyer interupts the melee with a gunshot from near the wall, and Dogen tells everyone to lower their weapons.  Sawyer leaves after saying "he ain't my friend' regarding Sawyer.  Kate and Jin are allowed to follow him out to track him.  Two Others go with them.
- From here on out, Jack, Hurley, Miles, and Sayid are closely guarded, with guns trained on them.

Literally at no point is Jack and the rest in any position to do anything other than sit/stand there and go with the flow.  The one chance they get--when Dogen comes for Sayid--THEY TAKE IT.  They actually FIGHT BACK.  However, Sawyer takes that opportunity to save his own skin, and in the process ruins the rest's chance at doing anything.

I'm sorry, but the entire set of sequences at the temple make perfect sense if you actually pay attention.

I have no opinion on how Jack & Co should have reacted to the Sayid thing, I'd have to watch the ep again but frankly can't be bothered. I do know that the secrecy thing (which I don't recall anyone addressing, but I can't wait to hear another awesome explanation for it ;-) ) is just LOST being LOST. Similarly with the deeply inane conversation between Jack and the Japanese guy.

No amount of rationalization by the "LOST can do no wrong, EVER" crowd will change the abject silliness of the Claire/Kate thing, even in light of their predisposition to bond in the alt-timeline. It is beyond grotesque but I have learned over the years that there is nothing in LOST that some of you guys would not defend. Even then, I have to admit that  can still be shocked at the willingness to defend the indefensibly bad. 

A pregnant woman who gets a gun pointed to her head the moment she steps out of the airport in a foreign country, has no problem getting a ride from the aggressor a few hours later.

Um, OK. Have at.

Aaahhh how I missed this thread! ;-)

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H

That scene definitely made no sense.  If the show was trying to portray a general feeling of "hmmm, I think I know you for some reason, and I think I should trust you," implying that the characters somehow are aware (even in the back of their minds) about the prime timeline, they failed.

If there is a "LOST can do no wrong, EVER" crowd, then there is also a "simply cannot grasp why the entire show isn't filled with Jack asking questions for 42 minutes, only to have the Others ignore him" crowd.  Some members have been complaining about that for years.  Because it would be so entertaining to have people ask the same questions (who are you?  What is going on?  Explain this!) episode after episode.

"That scene definitely made no sense.  If the show was trying to portray a general feeling of "hmmm, I think I know you for some reason, and I think I should trust you," implying that the characters somehow are aware (even in the back of their minds) about the prime timeline, they failed."

I may have said this earlier, but the Jack Locke scene at the airport was at the other extreme for me. It is one of my favorite scenes of the series. It's like finding hope in a very unlikely place, and THEN realizing that actually it was a very obvious place in retrospect. While none of us could have predicted before the last season finale that we would have an alternative timeline, embarrassingly, in all the years of watching this show, it never even occurred to me to connect Locke's condition with Jack's profession, and wonder "what if."

"If there is a "LOST can do no wrong, EVER" crowd, then there is also a "simply cannot grasp why the entire show isn't filled with Jack asking questions for 42 minutes, only to have the Others ignore him" crowd.  Some members have been complaining about that for years.  Because it would be so entertaining to have people ask the same questions (who are you?  What is going on?  Explain this!) episode after episode."

Jack et co. have certainly been on the Island long enough to know that questioning the Others is a mostly useless exercise (unlike during the first few seasons when they were failing to ask very obvious questions, and settling very easily for non-answers.) But somehow this episode did bring out old frustrations for me. I don't recall being this irritated by an exchange since like Season 2.

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H

i was never under the impression that Danielle was infected, in fact i think the show went out of it's way to show that she wasn't (killing her infected crew who went into the temple and came out changed).  does this mean that Ben was infected?  i'm assuming Ben was saved the same way (though maybe the pool water was clear that time). 
However, i'm guessing Claire was never in the pool, so maybe the pool isn't the cause of the possession, being cadaver on the Island (like Christian?)

...and if the pool was clear when Ben was saved, then it might explain why the Others did not kill Ben, but do want to kill Sayid.

also Ben was never dead, just really hurt, so he could not be claimed.

But why put him in the pool in the first place then?  Why not just let him die of his wound?

Yeah, agreed. Loved this scene. Talk about bringing us back to the ground zero... back to Season 1.

I know what many of you are saying about destiny bringing Kate and Claire together again... it's just that this show is often more successful at making destiny seem natural, not forced. I'm watching my Season 5 set again, and it struck me how many of the 1977 events were so rooted in believable character traits (Sayid's behavior towards Ben, for example, or Jack's sudden messianic fervor), given the circumstances the writers created on the island. The Claire / Kate "let's have a baby" thing just felt shoehorned in, especially with how freaked out Claire was just a few hours before.

Infected Claire has a consistent, though fantastical, behavioral explanation now, but this just seemed kind of inconsistent, even lazy.

Didn't really have a problem with anything else in the episode. I'm loving the whole "dark water" business. It's just so messed up, and so weird. My big fear for the season is they don't include a lot of good character moments, that we get hurled too deeply into this "everyone's at gunpoint" thing, with people constantly moving around and fighting and coming and going and shouting.