A few words about...™ Gone with the Wind -- in Blu-ray - Page 2

Whoa!!! I just spot checked the UCE and I can't get the smile to disappear from my face. I have never cried tears of joy over a video transfer, but I came very close...okay, I cried, when I saw this! Everything I didn't like from the last release has been corrected. One question though. The 1989 version had a couple of lines that aren't in this version. Namely, in the opening scene when Scarlett says to herself "It isn't true! It can't be true. Ashley loves me!" The first line has never been present on any home video release. The weird thing is that you can hear Vivien Leigh say it on the soundtrack but it sounds muffled out, buried way in the mix. Odd......anyway, I am over the moon!

The 1989 sound mix had several alterations, one of which clearly indicates that the 1989 mix was wrong:  In the scene where Scarlett and Rhett are strolling with Baby Bonnie on a windy day, Mrs. Meade's off-camera line of "Good morning, Captain Butler! ... Good morning, Scarlett." went missing in the '89 mix, thus killing the humor of having a repetitive line coming in threes.  (Mrs. Merriwether and Mrs. Whiting had already uttered the same line.)

In addition, when Scarlett watches Ashley and Melanie embrace before he leaves to enlist, in 1989 she loudly said "Oh Ashley!" rather than quietly whispering it as she does in all the other mixes.  It's more effective and touching as a whisper which is probably what Selznick thought when finalizing the tracks.

And as you say, in the first scene, she says something like "It isn't true!  It can't be true!" in the '89 mix rather than simply the latter.  One can argue that saying it twice is redundant.

As you can tell from this film and several others like "Rebecca", Selznick loved to reloop dialogue, so I'm figuring that the '89 mix may have been a preliminary one pulled in error.  The mix in the current BD is the same that I heard in '67 and all subsequent re-releases as well as on all "pre-restoration" video and laserdisc releases, except that theatrical print from 1989 which never made it to home video but did run on TNT.  Thus I'm confident that the current mix is the correct one. 

And, by the way, the transfer is glorious.  I've never seen the film look as good as it does in this release.

But Eric -- you notice these things -- don't you think the overture seems ever-so-slightly clipped at the very beginning in both this transfer and the earlier one from a few years ago?  As Rhett would say, "A minor point at such a moment!" for it's altogether a feast for the eye and ear.  But I was hoping this transfer would correct that.
Edited by Rob_Ray - 11/17/09 at 9:20pm

I know I'm in the wrong thread here, not having Blu-Ray (yes, I know, I'm backward, but there I am), but how does the SD version stack up against the 2004 box?  And feel free to move this if necessary, as long as someone answers.  Thanks!

PatH

Rob, good catch. RAH is probably a better person to ask about this. I do notice a slight change in the very first note of the Overture. It doesn't sound like anything is missing. The old (1998) dvd has the first note slowly fading in. It sounds as if the newer versions start it at full volume, but the newer one sounds as if there is some sort of hiccup from the "start" of the music. I'm at a loss....Ringing RAH...can you explain the sound?? Anyway, I'm still not believing this release...perfect.

I don't want to bother Mr. Harris with anything like this since it's so minor as to be silly.  But I noticed it four years ago, I noticed it today and I thought you would too!

Enough carping.  It's perfect -- the framing, the color, the sound.  Everything is at it should be.

I remember the first time I saw the film, in its 1967 70mm roadshow run.  Everyone in that print had yellowish jaundiced skin tones.  At the time, I just figured that's what early Technicolor must have looked like.  The best-looking theatrical print I ever saw was that 1989 print with the strange soundtrack alterations.  The worst-looking prints were the 1998 dye-transfer travesties.  I saw it three times trying to find a good print.  Most prints were blurry and out of registration and all three were framed incorrectly so that one saw ugly stains at the top of any shot containing matte work and one print even revealed positively that the wobbly post on the Wilkes' front porch actually wasn't attched to the roof!  To this day, I go to that shot to make sure it's framed properly.

But back to this Blu-Ray:  I'm delighted.  It's as close to perfection as one could hope for.  I never dreamed I'd own something that looked better than any theatrical print I've seen in my own home.

I'm telling you Rob, I was in tears when I popped this in. And that's no lie. I felt I was in Atlanta on December 15th, 1939 except for the fact that shadow detail and saturation are probably better than they were in '39. Flipping through the scenes I still saw the amber/yellow tint to some scenes that must be faithful to the original look, but flesh tones were spot on. I can't say enough about this. It's WB finest hour.

Another (new) confirmation that this was color timed to a 1939 answer print:

www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-wind17-2009nov17,0,2157080.story

I LOVED the 1989 theatrical sound mix, if that's what you're referring to.  Mainly because there were some live dialogue stems in there that are dubbed over in the "proper" version.  For example, "India Wilkes, what a lovely dress.  Just can't take my eyes off it."  It's obviously overdubbed in the original soundtrack, but the 1989 mix had the live dialogue.  Scarlett didn't say it all seductive and sugary like she does in the overdub -- it was very matter-of-fact, and she practically shouted it.  I seem to remember the line, "Pa, how proud of yourself you are" used the live dialogue as well.

Mmmm....Feltenstein just says it's a 1939 print, not the answer print.  It could be they borrowed the GEH print that Mr. Harris referenced above.

True... but it does seem to fit in with the other Internet info that an answer print was used for the 2004 restoration.

I'm a purist, but I must confess without sounding too blunt that after seeing this new revelation, I'm not concerned whether they used an answer print or not. The film is lush, yet has that antique look to it. It has something for everyone. I'm sure D.O.S. and company would be overjoyed if they were around to experience it. 1939 audiences would have been lucky as well.

You're probably right, Robert.  But the studio did claim in 2004 that they had a complete 1939 print, info I gleaned from your own post at the time:

www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/184824/gone-with-the-wind-65th-anniversary-special-4-disc-edition/30#post_2153849

But you said then that you didn't know if this was true or not.  Were the Eastman House reels discovered in the early 2000s?  Because the "legend" is that it was discovered five weeks into the 2004 restoration.

I guess they don't say "answer print."  In looking at the "Restoring a Legend" featurette from the 2004 DVD, Ned Price says, "We were fortunate enough to get a 1939 color reference print that was used at Technicolor at the time of manufacture.  It was a real boon to us because it gave us a legitimate snapshot of what this film actually looked like on its release.  We had started into our restoration, and we had to go back and rethink and rework our work to date after we found that, but it was a great save for us."

What's so special about the 50th anniversary documentary and what makes it now so poignant is that virtually all of the participants, except for Ann Rutherford, are now gone.  Ted Turner, George Feltenstein and the rest of the folks behind this documentary were both lucky and extremely wise to make this documentary when they did.  The thoughts and recollections of Marcella Rabwin, Ray Klune, Kay Brown, Butterfly McQueen, Evelyn Keyes and many others are now themselves gone with the wind and what remains of their stories lies in this historical artifact which is to be cherished.

Well put. With all the glorified EPKs that accompany almost every DVD of every new movie ever made today (and a fair bit of old and middle-aged ones), this one was one of the best documentaries about the making of a film ever. The only other one that's in the same class that I've seen, with the same love for its subject matter, and the same level of access to people who were there, is The Sound of Music: From Fact to Phenomenon, from 1994 (which would be tragic to omit from its eventual Blu-Ray as it was from the 40th Anniversary DVD).

RAH, fair enough. I am just going to speak for myself then. This is absolutely one of , if not THE best remastering effort I have ever seen. The fact that this film is tied with The Wizard of Oz for my favorite film makes it that much better. I now have the GWTW that I have always wanted. And I couldn't be happier.
Edited by eric scott richard - 11/19/09 at 3:02pm

Incidentally, what paper inserts came in your guys' box? Mine had the "booklet" containing the features of the discs, a TCM advert, and a Wizard of Oz Blu-Ray advert. I didn't get an advert for GWTW merchandise or anything for a poster offer.

I can't think of a movie, I'd rather own in HD and then in this fabulous quality. Amazing. I've watched the former DVD version with my daughter and yesterday, we saw this new version. She's 10 and it's her favorite movie ... well close anyway. I guess Spirit "Cimarron" is a tough opponent  

I have the same paper inserts as you, I believe.  I'd have to verify that for sure.  I had to pick up both versions (BD and DVD) as it's one of my favorite films and my primary viewing source remains a 35" 4:3 standard definition TV.  I'll be viewing the new DVD in my film class next month, so I was content to viewing part one of the BD on the 32" HD set while revisiting Rudy Behlmer's audio commentary last night.  I can't get over how amazing the quality is!  I noticed a fly buzzing around the set during one scene (I think it was Belle donating money to the hospital) the texture (and occasionally the soil during the evacuation) on all the clothes.  And things in the background that I never noticed before sprang to the fore, especially various bits of business performed by the extras in scenes like the naptime sequence and at the bazaar.

Just incredible!

I second your comments. GWTW is why I bought a Blu-ray player when the format finally won the war over HD-DVD. And I can scarcely believe that I actually have a Blu-ray copy in my grubby little paws. I've seen GWTW in 35mm 1.66 Technicolor, in 1.85 Eastman Color (not good) and in 70mm on: a flat screen, a D-150 presentation and on the full, deeply curved Cinerama screen. This is, by far, the best I've ever seen it, and I am thrilled with the final result.

I can't add much that hasn't already been said.  I will say that it's exceeded my wildest expectations.  I got the 2-disc set from England for $27 and I'm simply blown away. 

I also got the UK version. In case anyone's still wondering, both discs - the movie in BD on disc 1 and the extras on disc 2 - all play fine in my player.

Someone on another forum posted that he sees color registration errors.  Has anyone else noticed this?  I just watched the entire film and I didn't see what he's talking about.

I don't think anyone else mentioned this, but I did notice that we can now see the entire frame. In the last transfer the image was zoomed in too much. The improvement is most noticeable in the main credits. In this new version there's plenty of breathing space around the lettering and consequently we're treated to the correct compositions throughout.