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Cheers DVD's - Are they uncut with no music substitutions?

post #1 of 37
11/3/09 at 9:44pm
Thread Starter 
This is a series I'd like to start picking up, but I always wanted to find out how well they turned out first. I never saw it addressed in reviews as each season released, but is the music intact?

Occasionally, licensed material such as songs played a prominent role on the show. From "Monster Mash" on a Halloween themed bar war episode between Cheers and Gary's Old Town Tavern, various Righteous Brothers songs, "I Fought the Law" and "Chain Gang" on one episode, etc.

Was all of that intact on the DVD releases? Or were there music substitutions and scene cuts?

Are evidence of syndicated cuts on the episodes? Or were they all intact?

Thanks for any insight.
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post #2 of 37
11/3/09 at 10:01pm
Seasons 8-11 (after Paramount DVD became CBS/Paramount DVD) had music substitutions, cuts, and edits related to music.

In fact, Rebecca's favorite Righteous Brothers song was one of 'em that was changed.

Sorry.
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post #3 of 37
11/3/09 at 11:11pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for saving me a lot of money. I should've known better than to expect CBS/Paramount to do a decent job.
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post #4 of 37
11/3/09 at 11:39pm
I believe The Monster Mash was changed as well. Rofl.
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post #5 of 37
11/4/09 at 12:42am
Thread Starter 
I can't imagine that scene working without that song. I'd love to see a YouTube clip of it with whatever music they replaced it with.

Did they even attempt to get the music to sound like it was coming from a telephone reciever during the later part of that scene when Sam picks up the phone to call Gary to call things off after breaking his classic jukebox?
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post #6 of 37
11/4/09 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Obsolete Man View Post

Seasons 8-11 (after Paramount DVD became CBS/Paramount DVD) had music substitutions, cuts, and edits related to music.

In fact, Rebecca's favorite Righteous Brothers song was one of 'em that was changed.

Sorry.
 

What a bunch of friggin' morons, to replace music that's essential to the storyline. Did they really think people wouldn't notice???

IDIOTS.
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post #7 of 37
11/4/09 at 9:06am
CBS makes little to no effort in securing original music, so this shouldn't came as a surprise to anyone.

I don't even remotely believe in any of the B.S. that some people may say to the contrary that CBS tried, but they couldn't,

I am shocked this company continues to get away with crap like this.
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post #8 of 37
11/4/09 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Obsolete Man View Post

Seasons 8-11 (after Paramount DVD became CBS/Paramount DVD) had music substitutions, cuts, and edits related to music.
 

I don't recall this being addressed in reviews either. Strange.

Simply out of curiosity, do all 11 seasons use full length episodes?
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post #9 of 37
11/4/09 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack Gibbs View Post

I believe The Monster Mash was changed as well. Rofl.

But they created the equally annoying "Vampire Twist" as a replacement
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post #10 of 37
11/4/09 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveling Matt View Post


I don't recall this being addressed in reviews either. Strange.

Simply out of curiosity, do all 11 seasons use full length episodes?

Here's a small bit from the season 11 review at www.sitcomsonline.com

Most of the episodes have running times of over 23 minutes, with a few exceptions. "Daddy's Little Middle-Aged Girl" runs 22:49. "Rebecca Gaines, Rebecca Loses (Parts 1 & 2)" originally aired as an one-hour episode and is presented that way with a running time of 43:13. "One for the Road (Parts 1, 2 & 3)" originally aired as a 98 minute episode (with commercials) and runs an even 70 minutes on the DVD. According to a zypherix on our message board, there are some edits in the series finale.

 So, no, it looks like for the last 3 or 4 seasons, some episodes did get edited.

You can check out the seasons 8-11 reviews over there, and maybe it will tell you more.
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post #11 of 37
11/4/09 at 1:30pm
That's ridiculous. They have a reasoning for music substitution, however weak. But there's no excuse for not using the syndicated episodes.
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post #12 of 37
11/4/09 at 3:33pm
Was the 98 minute running time of "One For The Road" inclusive of the "Last Call" segment which isn't on the DVD? I recall that on the original broadcast, the episode proper began around 9:23 PM ET.

Edit: I went into the thread, it says the episode proper was 73 minutes on NBC and 70 minutes on DVD.
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post #13 of 37
11/27/09 at 8:36am
I can't tell you how disappointed I am with the music replacement on these DVDs. They absolutely RUINED the Halloween episode with Gary's Old Towne Tavern by replacing "Monster Mash" with "Vampire Twist". "Monster Mash" is an annoying song but everyone knows it- and knows it's annoying- that's what made it funny. "Vampire Twist" is not only annoying, but no one has even heard of it. So when it plays over the jukebox, you say to yourself "Huh?" and you spend your time trying to figure out what the hell it is rather than instantly reacting to the inherently silliness of "Monster Mash". In other words, it completely ruins a terrific gag. And I spent the rest of the episode thinking, "What a bunch of cheapskates". How enormous is Paramount? How many millions of dollars did they make off of "Cheers" over the years? And they couldn't afford to keep the "Monster Mash"? Yeah, right. One of my top 5 Cheers episodes, blighted by stupid greed.

Someone else mentioned the Righteous Brothers. They replaced "You've Lost That Loving Feeling" as the song that make Rebecca hot with a DIFFERENT Righteous Brothers song- "Unchained Melody". This despite the fact that Sam mentions "You've Lost That Loving Feeling" BY NAME. What possible reason could there be for this? "Unchained Melody" was a few bucks cheaper to license?

Shame on you, Paramount. "Cheers" and it's fans deserve better.
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post #14 of 37
11/27/09 at 7:12pm
Thread Starter 
Are you sure they switched them? Watching the series fairly recently when it was on TVLand I believe (A year or two ago), and they showed the Halloween bar wars episode with 'Monster Mash' intact.

But I also remember noticing and thinking it was odd in the other episode you mention that the song mentioned (You've Lost that Lovin' Feelin') wasn't what was really played (Unchained Melody}. Are you sure this isn't a inconsistency from a mistake during the original production of this show back in the day? I just assumed it was when I watched that episode in recent years (I'm fairly new to Cheers and Wings, it's just been in the past 5 years that I've watched both series, so I have no recollections of any of these episodes during the show's original run).

I can't imagine why this was done intentionally in recent years during editing for television airing and home video. I would think the rights to both are owned by the same company, and if anything, Unchained Melody should be the more expensive song to license since it was a good bit more popular than You've Lost that Lovin' Feelin'. But I also can't imagine anyone not knowing two of the most popular songs of all-time during the original production of the show, allowing that mistake to have ever happened.

Changing it in recent years doesn't make any sense, but then again, we're talking about CBS...
Edited by LeoAmes - 11/27/09 at 7:23pm
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post #15 of 37
11/27/09 at 9:53pm
^^ Syndicated episodes and DVD releases aren't the same thing. Cheers was most likely made with all the necessary syndication deals in place when the episodes were created.

And Unchained Melody is not a Righteous Brothers song, only a popular cover by them. That's why it would be cheaper to license.
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post #16 of 37
11/28/09 at 9:30am
Thread Starter 

Maybe I'm wrong about Unchained Melody being more popular, was remembering earlier today that You've Lost that Lovin' Feelin' is supposedly the most played song in radio history. Either way, they're pretty comparable when it comes to their popularity and the public's ongoing awareness and recognition of both songs.

I understand the difference between DVD and syndication, my point was that networks (TVLand and Hallmark) are airing episodes intact (Although many cuts for time, especially now on Hallmark). But the episode in question with this Righteous Brothers song also has the songs switched when aired on TVLand & Hallmark, just like the DVD apparantly does.

Why would that be? That's why I was wondering if it wasn't a mistake they originally made during production of that episode in the late 80s or early 90s, rather than something done later.

If that episode has been edited in recent years for home video (Perhaps when a lot of restoration was done in 2001 to the series?), the switch of songs was also carried over to what CBS/Paramount provided TVLand with in 2004 and Hallmark in 2008 when they started airing Cheers. I've watched through the series a couple of times on TVLand and now Hallmark, and I've only ever seen this particular episode with Unchained Melody played, despite the song being mentioned as You've Lost that Lovin' Feelin'.

Thanks for telling me that the two songs indeed are different as far as rights are concerned, I wasn't aware of it.

Coming back to this issue in a different way again, was watching a Christmas episode of Cheers last night on Hallmark, the one with the bar watching scenes of 'It's a Wonderful Life' several times during the episode. The rights belong to both Paramount and Republic as far as I'm aware, and I don't think Paramount's rights were included when CBS got Paramount Television. How'd they handle this on the DVD's? Is it still 'It's a Wonderful Life' being played on the television in the bar?


Edited by LeoAmes - 11/28/09 at 12:54pm
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post #17 of 37
11/30/09 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoAmes View Post
But the episode in question with this Righteous Brothers song also has the songs switched when aired on TVLand & Hallmark, just like the DVD apparantly does. 


Why would that be? 


Music rights can be bought and sold in all sorts of permutations.  In this case, it's quite possible the music wasn't bought for broadcast in perpetuity, but rather for a specific window.  This is not uncommon.  After the rights expired (likely a few years, long enough for all network airings), the alternate version was substituted.
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post #18 of 37
11/30/09 at 5:58pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks

Anyone have any insight on how the Christmas episode with clips from It's A Wonderful Life went on the DVD releases?

At this point, I have no interest in buying this product. But I'd love to hear about that episode and be entertained with how pitiful CBS is if it's as chopped up and ruined as I suspect it may be.
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post #19 of 37
11/30/09 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoAmes View Post

Thanks

Anyone have any insight on how the Christmas episode with clips from It's A Wonderful Life went on the DVD releases?

At this point, I have no interest in buying this product. But I'd love to hear about that episode and be entertained with how pitiful CBS is if it's as chopped up and ruined as I suspect it may be.

You know, I don't remember.

However, I don't recall any edits in that season (S6), the episode "Christmas Cheers" runs 24:44, and CBS/Paramount are the ones who have the rights to It's A Wonderful Life, so that may have escaped the knife.

See, that was season 6, before Paramount home video became CBS Paramount. Those are the safe seasons. It's seasons 8-11 you have to question.
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post #20 of 37
11/30/09 at 6:30pm
Thread Starter 
Wish this was one of those shows that ended up sucking or being very inferior towards the end (Such as how much better the b&w seasons of the Andy Griffith Show were, at least in my opinion), or I might consider just picking up the early seasons.

 
But I like the whole series, and would hate to just have part of it here on DVD. I have a flaw where I'd almost rather have none of it if it's not possible to have all of it.

I can stand stalled series since there's always hope something like what went on with Adam-12 will happen, but there's little hope for this show besides hoping for a major corporate change at CBS/Paramount by the time tv releases on blu-ray become popular (If it ever happens), to get these last few seasons done correctly.

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post #21 of 37
1/11/10 at 11:28pm
It's a shame the way they've treated this show on DVD. One of the best, imo, and most popular sitcoms in history and they butcher it. I haven't completed the series on DVD due to this.

As for the You've Lost That Loving Feeling/ Unchained Melody question above, I've got to wonder. In the episode, they mention the song(YLTLF) by name but then play Unchained Melody instead. Is it a music substitution issue only for syndication or a production issue in the original series run? In the ninth season episode "Wedding Bell Blues", Bobby Hatfield is at the courthouse for Rebecca's wedding to Robin singing "Unchained Melody". The second one, I'm not as sure. The 1990 episode, "Finally", has Robin paying to have "You've Lost That Loving Feeling" played all night by a radio station to get Rebecca in the mood.

I know that people mainly consider seasons 8-11 to be edited on DVD, but wasn't there an edit in the early episodes of the series where Cliff mentions something about the Russians and nuclear weapons? They cut off part of his line due to pc reasons, if I remember correctly. Ridiculous if true. I thought there were other edits in the earlier seasons on DVD, too. 
Edited by Dave Farley - 2/4/10 at 4:57pm
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post #22 of 37
1/12/10 at 6:32am
The main reason for these music cuts is because Paramount is a cheap and lazy company. They make little no to effort in securing original music. I'm saddened by anyone who defends this company and acts like what they're doing is smart.

And if that's actually true about that line being cut due to PC reasons, then the people complaining about that one line are a bunch of crybabies, nothing more.
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post #23 of 37
1/12/10 at 9:06am
vnisanian, it isn't that. Sony just doesn't want to pay the artists who created that music for the right to resell that music on their DVD's.

Despite what everyone wants to believe, Sony is actually selling that music on another format, and that is too cheap to pay the artists for their music. You're right that Sony is too cheap. Studios just don't want to pay music artists for the work they do and they want it for free. So, they often substitute the music or don't release the TV series altogether. 
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post #24 of 37
1/12/10 at 9:15am
Sony has nothing to do with Cheers.

Just out of curiosiy, am I the only who has figured out who Kemcha is?
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post #25 of 37
1/12/10 at 3:51pm
Thread Starter 
I'm with David Farley, I still don't understand why one Righteous Brothers song is switched for another successful hit that was just as huge from the same group when the show airs in syndication now or on the DVD's.

It doesn't strike me as simply the company being cheap since I can't imagine the other song is that much more of a bargain to license. We're talking about two of the biggest hits from the 1960s from one of the greatest and most fondly remembered groups from that decade.

 I'd love to be able to see recordings of when these shows originally aired to see what the case was during it's initial run, I'm still inclined to think that maybe Unchained Melody was originally played then. I find it hard to believe they've substituted one Righteous Brothers hit for another in recent years.
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post #26 of 37
1/12/10 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vnisanian2001 View Post

The main reason for these music cuts is because Paramount is a cheap and lazy company. They make little no to effort in securing original music. 

Can you please tell me how you know this?  I mean, you obviously do, because you wouldn't post that "they make little no to [sic] effort in securing original music" if you didn't have inside information about how lazy they are.  So clearly, you have a source at Paramount.  Or you work at Paramount.  Or in the music business, or the DVD business.  And that's how you know about this lack of effort.  
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post #27 of 37
1/12/10 at 4:14pm
They used to be one of the best companies in securing original music, but ever since CBS got involved with them, they've gotten lazier and lazier.

And they had absoultely no right to do what they did to The Fugitive and  My Three Sons. Would this have happened to both shows, if CBS hadn't gotten involved with Paramount? I think not.
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post #28 of 37
1/12/10 at 7:40pm
I know, I know, I'm going to be accused of being an apologist, or a shill, or a plant, or worse.  But I would just say this:  As the TV on DVD market has matured, the studios have a much better idea of how many they can expect to sell.  They are putting these out for profit, remember.  Sales of ongoing seasons of TV shows always sell worse than the seasons that came before -- that's always true.  For a show like "Cheers" that ran eleven seasons, that means quite a drop toward the end.  (Don't let enthusiasm for a title on a message board like this fool you.  Devoted fans of TV on DVD like you, and me, are not a cross-section of the general public.)  

And something else runs counter to this drop in sales.  When a long running show is on in its late seasons, generally the network is paying enough for it that the producers can afford whatever they want -- including music clearances.  For broadcast, that is.  So while sales of DVD seasons decline in later years, frequently the music budgets for later seasons is higher!  

I don't know anybody at CBS home video.  Maybe they're the laziest sons of bitches on the planet Earth.  But I have no evidence of that, and certainly no evidence at all to back up your claim that they make little to no effort to secure the music.  You are letting your disappointment and annoyance bring you to that invented conclusion.  
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post #29 of 37
1/12/10 at 8:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike*SC View Post

I don't know anybody at CBS home video.  Maybe they're the laziest sons of bitches on the planet Earth.  But I have no evidence of that, and certainly no evidence at all to back up your claim that they make little to no effort to secure the music.  You are letting your disappointment and annoyance bring you to that invented conclusion.  

Um, The Fugitive? My Three Sons? Almost every single release they've done since the Viacom/CBS split? I could go on.
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post #30 of 37
1/12/10 at 9:19pm
" The Fugitive" case was a huge blunder, to be sure.  (I'm not familiar with "My Three Sons," but I assume it's something similar?)  But the thing with "The Fugitive" is it came from miscommunications, legal timidity, and outright mistakes.  I'm not defending it -- they blew it, big time.  But one thing that did not cause it was laziness!  That's my point.  Replacing all that music was a stupid thing to do, but also a lot of effort on the part of many people.  

I have a friend who rescored a bunch of '80s television series, replacing songs with his own score.  His hiring was not the result of laziness.  The studio (I won't name it) simply felt they could not afford to license the songs (and yes, they had priced them, and kept one or two of the less expensive ones).  You can say they were cheap, or merely pragmatic.  They definitely were motivated by financial concerns, of that there's no doubt.  But again, they were not lazy in any way.  My friend's services came (relatively) cheap, but each episode had to be respotted, laid down, and mixed from scratch.  You can bemoan the music replacement all you want, and that's your right.  But if you claim they didn't try to license the music, or didn't bother, you'd be wrong.  
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