Apple TV 3.0 is a total yawner. - Page 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Posten 

The thing is every time we have a discussion like this everyone imagines what X new tech would be like if some shitty company like Microsoft or Sony designed it.  But what if APPLE designed it?

We've seen that. It's called the AppleTV. It sucks.

More usefully: I'm no fan of the AppleTV. Its pricing and content are such that it's a very niche product to those that want to pay a lot of money for a few shows that are sub-HDTV quality but very convenient. The hardware and interface seem fine. The problem, I think, is the content and pricing.

I've not looked for a while, but last I checked, movies and TV shows cost more than I'd pay retail for the same thing on DVD. They were lower video quality, and lacked all special features. And the selection was very limited. I'm a fan of convenience, but it didn't make any sense to me to pay $229+ to then pay too much for sub-par quality content.

This is not an OS problem.

Open it to Hulu and Netflix, Drop the price of content. Get the hardware to $149 or lower. Let me add USB drives for cheap storage expansion. Make sure it can be operated by my Harmony universal remote. Add a Blu-Ray drive so it's an all-in-one playback device and I can get rid of a dedicated Blu-ray player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Posten 

The thing is every time we have a discussion like this everyone imagines what X new tech would be like if some shitty company like Microsoft or Sony designed it.  But what if APPLE designed it?

You'd get locked DVR recordings you couldn't convert or archive for any real length of time, no support for extenders or external  media.. you'd get no bluray support, no LPCM support, no DTS support, no FLAC or MKV support native. 

Apple tried this, called Apple TV.. and even hardcore apple fans bailed and did what Ted did. 

Apple isn't a member of the forum to support Cablecard, so it'd take someone like SiliconDust, and while it's possible (in fact, kind of easy) to integrate digital international channels to other products I can't imagine the effort to do it with Apple... or using a Region free burner/reader to handle PAL and NTSC content on one box?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveF 

More usefully: I'm no fan of the AppleTV. Its pricing and content are such that it's a very niche product to those that want to pay a lot of money for a few shows that are sub-HDTV quality but very convenient. The hardware and interface seem fine. The problem, I think, is the content and pricing.

 

I've not looked for a while, but last I checked, movies and TV shows cost more than I'd pay retail for the same thing on DVD. They were lower video quality, and lacked all special features. And the selection was very limited. I'm a fan of convenience, but it didn't make any sense to me to pay $229+ to then pay too much for sub-par quality content.

 

This is not an OS problem.

 

Open it to Hulu and Netflix, Drop the price of content. Get the hardware to $149 or lower. Let me add USB drives for cheap storage expansion. Make sure it can be operated by my Harmony universal remote. Add a Blu-Ray drive so it's an all-in-one playback device and I can get rid of a dedicated Blu-ray player.

You're not a fan of Apple TV.  I had no idea.  Yes, it is an outdated product that was a bit short to begin with.

So, for Apple TV to be worthwhile, it has to be an HD DVR, stream Netflix, Hulu, etc.  function as a full BR player, AND sell for under $149?  Will you be holding your breath for that product to EVER appear?  From any manufacturer?  So, you don't like the Apple TV.  Sure, but this expectation is simply absurd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRice 

You're not a fan of Apple TV.  I had no idea.  Yes, it is an outdated product that was a bit short to begin with.

 

So, for Apple TV to be worthwhile, it has to be an HD DVR, stream Netflix, Hulu, etc.  function as a full BR player, AND sell for under $149?  Will you be holding your breath for that product to EVER appear?  From any manufacturer?  So, you don't like the Apple TV.  Sure, but this expectation is simply absurd.

While that target is irrational, look at the other side.. you can easily have an HDMI ready, Bluray player that supports Hulu and Netflix on the PC side for about $400.  Including software cost.

*785G board + Sempron140=$80

*Memory = $29

*HDD=$50 for a 500G

*TVTuner w/QAM=$39

*Case with PSU=$44

*OS=$89

*BD Reader=$69

Total: 400.  In fact, doing one for the father this weekend, total cost exactly $387 based on the receipts and before rebates.
 

So, if some weekender can go to Microcenter and grab the parts for sub $400, then someone out there has to be able to put together similar at about the same price. 

Well, since reading Dave's post, I've been feeling like such a fool.  I finally bought a BR player and all it does is play discs and wirelessly stream NetFlix, that's ALL, and I paid the outrageous price of $150.  I had no idea that $150 should get me all that other stuff as well.  The problem is, I've spent the last several hours searching, and I find no product in existence that remotely resembles what Dave is demanding as a bare minimum.  I must be missing something.  I bet all those people who spent $500 on the Oppo BD-83, which only plays discs and doesn't even offer streaming of any kind, must feel like a bunch of idiots.

Setting aside my hyperbole, the start of the current conversation was about the atv switching to iOS, with the implication being that will be great for it. But the atv's weaknesses are not an os problem.

Sam, I know the context of your rhetorical question, but framing was too funnily read more literally. :) To your point: hand gestures won't fix the atv. The interface is not it's weakness either.

The heart of the problem is the media companies. The content is split and fractured across TV, Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, and AppleTV. And there are competing boxes. AppleTV is the worst in that sense it's own box that doesn't play with others. At least with TiVo I can also do netflix and amazon and maybe hulu in the future? But for itunes i have to get the atv. If iTunes content could be bought and played through other devices, that would be interesting. Or if atv was an aggregating device that could do netflix and hulu and amazon, then an affordable $149 box would bring apple simplicity to tame the living room.

Likewise content. It's fractured and particularly expensive for download. Rentals can make sense, but, but they're hamstrung by the media cos. For example, I can't rent Harry Potter and Half Blood Prince from iTunes. It's probably available from Amazon or Netflix or somewhere. But this fracturing -- even if it's not Apple's fault nor their's to solve -- diminishes the appeal of these devices as rent & buy boxes.

And none of that is solved with an OS refresh, sadly. 

At $99, I start to get interested as a media interface for the bedroom TV. Especially since we just canceled our $10/mo basic cable plan. Curious what the apps will be. 

Give me hardbuttons! :)

Listening to various Leo Laporte shows on TWIT the past week, he's going gonzo over how the iOS-powered AppleTV is going to change everything! But I can't figure out how. Everything I hear speculated already exists: TV and movie rentals from broadcast and Cable companies; music for purchase, etc. A refresh at a lower cost and improve UI would help, but it still comes down to content.

It gets interesting if it's an entire ecosystem overhaul: reduce AppleTV price to $99, introduce $0.99 TV rentals, significantly expand the library of shows and movies for rent, and also have the ability to play interesting and useful new iOS apps.

To me, $0.99 HD TV rentals through a $99 box has some real appeal. Currently, I can't watch Futurama (no cable), so I'm fighting with DivX, futzing with downloading them from some site, the legitimacy of which I'm pointedly not investigating, and watching in the office or connecting the laptop to the living room...it's not especially convenient. If I could watch current Futurama for $0.99 rentals, and get the benefits of an improved music player over in my bedroom, this becomes something I seriously consider. If I can also get other cheap shows that my wife and I say would be nice to watch...but not quite nice enough to pay for NetFlix or buy the DVD set...it becomes not a toy for me but a "household" purchase, like Tivo. :)

To me, the OS is irrelevant. Make it cheaper and the library bigger and it's a whole new thing.

New jobs are a great reason to buy new toys :D

I've been wondering about the $99 price: is it reasonable?

I'll assume a basic box and use prices from iSuppli.

http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns-Manufacturing-and-Pricing/News/Pages/iPhone-4-Carries-Bill-of-Materials-of-187-51-According-to-iSuppli.aspx

Tallying up the iPhone 4 costs for most everything except phone, battery, and screen; that is adding up processor, 50% of RAM cost for an 8 GB kit, WiFi, case, misc packaging. This gets me about $65. (Just the "Applications Processor", RAM, and "Wifi/BT" gets me to $38). Assuming a 200% markup, it's $195 retail.

Now if it's only a 100% markup to retail, it's maybe $129.

So I don't see a $99 AppleTV coming out. But I'm just some schmoe slinging iSuppli numbers, and hope to be wrong :)

It may be an option, but it won't be required. And it still doesn't answer how they'll bolt on a mouse cursor to the direct-touch iOS.

RF? Not IR? Wasn't high on my priority list, but I definitely won't be buying an AppleTV if it's not Harmony One compatible.