Apple TV 3.0 is a total yawner.

Kind of important issue that you need to update iTunes on a remote computer to 9.0.2 for AppleTV 3.0 to work with it.  Tried updating my ATV first, only to find it simply won't play music anymore.  Hopefully it will be working in a couple minutes once iTunes is updated.

I like my AppleTV but since buying my PS3 I'm finding that a lot of its features are a bit redundant. And with Netflix coming to the PS3 there seems to be less reasons to hold on to it. I may just eBay the thing or sell it to someone here. I wish Apple had shown the AppleTV a bit more love.

Sam YGM.

I'm not happy with v3.  It's slooooow on shared music and has had some glitches.  The other day, when I hadn't used it for maybe a week, I had to restart it to access my shared music library.  I'm also baffled why there has never been a true ability to shutdown or restart.  You have to unplug it.

I just got an e-mail that there's an update available so you may want to update.

Yeah, when I fired it up today I was notified there was an update, which had already been downloaded and was ready to install if I chose.  I guess that was another change from v.2.

Anyway, after updating, getting an error and having to restart (which it actually did just by hitting play/pause) it is working more smoothly.  Clearly there was something wrong with the original v.3 to have another update so fast.

The article makes some good points, but it also misses some of the key concepts. 

 

For apple, becoming a real media device (like Media Center, etc.) is a loser.. it's a loser because in order to really be effective, you have to integrate with a lot of 3rd party periphials.  This is the only way you can be more then a single-station solution.. so things like Universal Cable Card, Universal ATSC, Universal DVB, etc.  That kind of ecosystem defies everything apple is about; and Apple simply isn't big enough (no offense to apple fans) to generate up enough hardware based around every potential option to satisfy the user base..

 

Microsoft, because of a more open ecosystem (ie, anyone can throw together a PCI or PCI-E card and ship out their own driver base) find it easier to develop.  More then that, MS has one other reason to be interested: it owns stakes in media management companies.

 

So Microsoft is busy rolling out DVRs under 4 companies now:

 

With Surewest, they are rolling out the Whole House DVR, under MediaRoom:

http://www.surewest.com/change/

 

With Charter, they are also rolling out MediaRoom.

 

With ATT, they have a WinCE5 device for Uverse, though mediaroom is likely there later also.. in a different format.

 

This is a market that is predominantly Scientific Atlanta and Cisco right now, but MS would like a big piece of it. 

So, why does MS take a stab at it and not apple?  Despite the claims in the article you link, Sam, the market is very profitable. MS will do very well under these deals.  But the support network for these will also be huge, and that's also something Apple doesn't really have room for, a way to devote huge resources and time to dealing with the training and management of say, Comcast or ATT or Charter or etc. for a product they aren't selling at all to the consumer.... and that's something that Apple would have a hard time working around. 

 

I think AppleTV is basically a dead product.  I could see Front Row making a comeback, but the problem is the key functions that people want in an HTPC are so variable based on providers and formats that Apple would never be able to come up with a steady platform for it.. and Apple doesn't change nearly often enough to make it feasible to do.

 

So, there you go.

Actually the new MacMini is pretty much the ultimate HTPC now:

http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/15/apple-updates-mac-mini-with-new-design/

 

It has up to 8GB memory (easily accessible via now removable bottom), HDMI out with audio, plus all the old digital audio in/out ports, plus DIsplay Port (which presumably also carries digital audio) -- with a long cable run this thing can power Home Theaters in two rooms.

 

BTO -- swap the internal optical drive for a second HDD and attach an external USB Blu-ray. Use MakeMKV/Plex for Blu-ray playback.

 

Oh, and the Apple Store is still (or back) down -- more goodies coming?

Totally agree.  El Jobso needs to live with a little pain and support BD already.  Couldn't possibly be more painful than the mortal combat with Adobe and Google/Android Apple is engaged in right now. 

In all sincerity: what is the point of an HTPC now that Blu-Ray is the media of choice? Apple doesn't support Blu Ray. Blu-Ray is seemingly unrippable, so I can't make a BR "jukebox". But I'm not going to buy DVDs to rip when I can watch Blu Ray on a 50" HDTV on a $100 Blu-ray player. And when I've looked, it seemed all the good HTPC software is for Windows, making Mac still a lesser choice for HTPC I keep looking for a reason to build one, but it's always very expensive for little or no benefit. It seems that HTPC is dead.

 

I'd love to hear how one does it easily, affordably, and with HD media.

 

Can't explain how wrong the first section is here.  But it is very wrong.  But, the Mac Mini is not a good HTPC choice.  Not just because of BD, but also because it is a poor to non-existant time-shifting DVR, it offers no across the net combining of archives, no extenders, no bitstreaming HD content, no 8 channel LPCM@24, incorrect video drivers for the wrong color space for HDTV... it's a kludge, not a solution, and Apple isn't at all convinced to change it.

You can't say I'm wrong, without explaining why :) Worse is to say it's unexplainable! Worser is to then confirm my thoughts by saying the Mac Mini is a terrible HTPC!!!

 

I've looked at HTPCs a few times the past few years and I can't find the purpose, especially with Blu-ray as the dominant disc media.

He's saying you're wrong because Blu-ray ripping on the Mac  works just fine.

 

I'm saying that both of you are wrong because I have an HTPC-Mac and couldn't be happier. 

I use EyeTV as my DVR, with 4(!!!) tuners, meaning that I can record four HDTV programs simultaneously while watching a fifth.  Try that with your TiVo.  I am not limited by a dedicated DVR's disk space on what I can store -- I am recording every single World Cup game "en vivo, en directo", in glorious 1080i HD -- if only I wasn't getting the constant trumpet blare in 5.1 sound...)  I can edit my recordings (very quick and user friendly -- I collect bands playing on the late night talk shows, SNL, etc. -- I've got 500+ such recordings at this point (and I even have backups...)  I can export recordings to DVD, to iTunes (iPad/iPhone/AppleTV and the transcoding rocks).  I can stream native EyeTV recordings to my iPad via Air Video.  When watching a unedited recording I have a 60 second skip on my iPhone based remote -- no commercials ever -- not even a little snippet -- the technique is <pause> <skip><skip><skip><skip><play>

 

I have my entire 1000+ CD collection in lossless format in iTunes, and my Mac is connected to the AVR via optical digital so I'm getting to use the high quality DtoA converters on my AVR -- My HTMac would be worth it just for that.  And lastly I have a substantial portion of my DVD collection as VIDEO_TS files, catalogued/linked via DVDPedia with high quality cover art.  DVDPedia seamlessly integrates with Front Row and I do most of my DVD watching that way. I make sure I have anything with high re-watch potential like music DVDs or stuff that gets watched over a number of days like TV seasons imported on the Mac.  The (Snow) Leopard DVD Player does an excellent job of upscaling/incrementally zooming non-anamorphic DVDs.

 

Lastly, for anything that I have missed on EyeTV and is not yet out on DVD there is the iTunes store as a backup.  For Blu-rays I use my Oppo BD player.  I'm more than happy with my Mac HTPC -- I'm freaking ecstatic.  

 

And yes -- if you hate the Mac HT software on the Mini so much, you are welcome to run Windows on it...
 

What DVR software do you use for control and TV guide data?

 

That's interesting to hear that you can do full DVR and Blu-ray stuff on the Mac. When I looked into doing this with DVDs, it was expensive and very time-consuming. It seemed it would be even worse with Blu-ray. Perhaps not, now.

My DVR software is EyeTV (from elgato.com)  It uses TV Guide as its TV guide (before that it used Titan TV, but TV Guide is much better.  My tuner devices are an HD Home Run (dual tuner) and EyeTV 500.  (They have newer hardware now -- I've been using EyeTV for 4(?) years.)

 

The main downside of EyeTV is that it doesn't support cable card so it can record digitally only unencrypted cable channels ("Clear QAM" aka basic cable) and/or over the air HDTV.  For premium channels it uses a component video in device -- so you still get HD recordings but they go through a DtoA/AtoD cycle.  I don't bother -- I get my HBO etc. on DVD or from iTunes.

 

On the other hand DVRs that do have cable card have all kinds of restrictions which EyeTV doesn't have.

The biggest problem though is that doing it the way you are, Ted, it's not all done "in one umbrella"  It's multiple programs to do one function.  That's what really lacks in AppleTV.  You can do what you are doing, but you either use 2 PCs, or you have one like a MacMini and bounce between different programs to get the output.

Meanwhile, those who use a single front end, whether it's sage or MS MCE, find that they can do all of it all under one interface without ever leaving.  For wife acceptance factor, that's a huge difference.  And as near as I can tell, while you know how to get BD playback, you aren't getting mount and play (menus, etc.) which I can't really get into why because of forum rules ;) :)  

But the AppleTV and MacMini don't put out HD Bitstream audio, they don't put out uncompressed LPCM, they don't do 24p, they don't do java menu rendering or any BD flow, they don't put everything under one roof.  You mention Itunes, I have no problem getting my Itunes library just fine under a MCE interface and sharing it everywhere now that they aren't DRM'd. 

Since MCE and Sage and others all support Hulu/Netflix integration fine, I have no issue with most TV, or even storage of them, and integrating CBS.COM/ABC/NBC/FOX website video is also pretty straightforward.  At the same time, using automation, I can have shows follow me, keeping in mind where I stopped/started/pause, and start at exactly that point on any other media center or XBOX in my house.

 

Those are the kind of things AppleTV really lacks.

I can get 100% of the output through Front Row -- there is two way integration into EyeTV as well as DVDPedia.

 

In practice though because of my iPhone based mouse and remotes, I do switch back and forth between EyeTV and Front Row -- works fine for me, without ever budging from the couch.  My wife tends to stick to Front Row -- she loves the DVD browsing especially -- never wants to deal with physical DVDs anymore.

 

Don't use Hulu etc., as I have zero tolerance for commercials.  Don't use Netflix streaming because my DSL speed is pathetic.  &*((*)*&^%!! Verizon

 

I've never used MS MCE -- having read in the WSJ & NY Times about various programs (virus scans, buy this trail version of xx, You have a critical MS system update) launching in the middle of movies I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.  Maybe the press has lied to me, but I do have a MS PC on my desk at work (and have had one for the last 15 years) and know that it is an operating system that my life is too short to deal with without the aide of an entire IT department.  The idea that I would allow it in my home is anathema.  Plus my wife would divorce me.  

 

 Note -- I am not talking about AppleTV here, don't have one, can't imagine why I would -- my Mac is attached via DVI/HDMI to a 1080P HDTV and an AVR via optical Toslink. 

 

I think WSJ/Etc. have it way wrong.. I've had my MCE up for 118 days.. and it never gets interupted by the OS... ever.  You have the option in it to tell it to be "exclusive" so it stays permanently up.  Having tried all the other alternatives (Sage, etc.) they also work that way as well. 

 

MS just has the worst marketing ever.  :)

 

As to the Netflix bit: ah.  :)  Yeah, couldn't live with that.. but I will say, as has been the case for about 3 years, if you have MCE set to permanently up, it never gets interupted with any sort of popup or anything, the screen never changes.  It's simple enough that my 10 year old can work the remote without issue.. and as far as wife acceptance factor, I will say we started with an AppleTV and pitched it.  AppleTV for the wife was -way- more of a chore then MCE.

But it's all buyers taste.

 

As to Frontrow, that's slick.  Again, if you're going DVI-HDMI, though, you can't do real the real deal, you can get close, but not quite.  No HD bitstreaming, definitely no 3D BD support, and you can't integrate BD menu'ing, etc.  But the loss of HD audio is a significant one.  You can't output LPCM multichannel over toslink.. or TrueHD.. or DTS-MA.  You also can't output more then 96khz (really, you can "fake" it, but you can't deliver more by standard). 

 

Those kind of things are significant to me.

But it is really interesting that EyeTV now integrates with FrontRow.  In the end, Apple needs to completey rethink AppleTV.. which is what this thread is about.  You aren't using it because basically you see the inherent flaws as well.  And while your solution solves some of them, it doesn't solve all of them.  Because the problems with AppleTV itself are significant and can't be changed the way you have it.

I don't want fingerprints on my 50" Plasma

 

More pointedly, the OS on the AppleTV is not the problem. That's rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The problem is the available content and its cost. Too little and too high (last time I looked). The price and capability of the actual hardware is doing anyone any favors, either.

Waving my hands to change channels. Jumping up and down to adjust volume. My wife walks in and it charges me $69.99 and downloads a season of Desperate Housewives.

 

I can't wait.