New Update Today. Site downtime. - Page 2

Michael,

The subscriptions only not sticking bug, and the started by bug are TOP priorities.

Thanks, Ben!

I realize these won't address all of the issues raised here, but it makes a lot more sense to discuss the user-friendliness of this interface when it's working correctly.

As for this right-click issue that's being mentioned, I don't know what the deal is. I've never encountered it even once since the migration, and I right-click all the time. People who are reporting it need to start providing the information Adam requested further above (browser, OS, etc.)

Hmmm...  Why does the "+" sign feature only seem to show up for subscribed threads to which I have not actually posted?  Is there some particular reason for that?

Seems to me it might make sense to provide this feature for the earliest few unread posts (w/ maybe an option for the latest few, if desired) in a subscribed thread -- and if there are no unread posts, then don't show the "+" sign.  But in my case, it seems to always show the "+" sign for a couple threads to which I never posted while not showing it at all for all the other threads, which all do also happen to have no new unread posts (for now).

Maybe the feature is just broken for me -- maybe it has something to do w/ the javascript error I'm getting (as I mentioned earlier).

_Man_

The threads with new posts are in order of latest update first... what would be a better indicator?

Man:

FWIW, I see the "+" sign on ech of my subscribed threads (whether I've posted in them or not).  I see them, in fact, on EVERY thread on this page...regardless of whether I am subscribed or not...or whether I hve posted in it or not.  And, I also see the error message at the bottom of every HTF page.

There is no indicator.  Is there?

If I sign on to the HTF, go to my home page, and see a bunch of threads listed...how do I know which ones have posts in them which are new to me?

Mike,
What error message are you seeing?

Also, about subscribed threads... If the subscriptions only button is pressed... you'll see only blue icons in the lefthand. That lets you know you've subscribed to the thread or to a tag. If you unclick subscriptions only, you'll see a mix of blue and grey icons.. the grey icon means you've not subscribed to that thread or product or wiki, but that it's been updated. Again, if you don't care about those and don't want to see them, you can click subscriptions only to filter them out (and again, we're working THIS MINUTE on a fix for that stickiness bug, as well as the summary view bug).

When you roll over the post, you can see why you're subscribed and choose to unsubscribe. That way you have a quick way to manage your subscriptions.

I think once the summary view is checked and the Subscriptions Only button "stickiness" is fixed, the page will have information very similar to your stuff i care about page had.

I just would like the web site to work like a regular web site and not have to learn how to do everything to make it do that.

Mike's passionate posts show how important this we site is to some of us and when it isn't  easy or just NORMAL then it throws everything off balance and it becomes a chore and not an entertainment or a joy to visit.

It seems apparent that HTF is more interested in gaining new member numbers then getting this web site to what the original members are asking for.

there was an entire topic of "asked for updates/fixes", that topic has just died off because they just gave up on asking due to the standard response of it's being worked on, guess it really wasn't.

I see this......" getGlobal('userId') > 0) { $gaSetVar = 'logged-in'; } else { $gaSetVar = null; } ?>"
at the ottom of everypage.
and now to the very left of the word quote I see a spinning circle, hmm.
Quote:

What Tony wrote.  It's at the very bottom of every page.


Is that your short way of saying there's no "New Post" indicator?


I disagree.  I don't think you've understood at all my point about not being able to tell which threads contain new posts.

You said you have 1600 subscriptions... so if any one of those 1600 subscriptions gets new activity, it will pop to the top of the page.

What would be more helpful to show that you had clicked on a thread and nothing new has happened on it (to show on the feed, i mean).

B

I'd chime in myself, but Mike Frezon is speaking loud and clear for me:  How do I know which threads have new posts since I last checked them without having to actually re-read the most recent posts?  I found the + preview button on the right and it helps a little, but I used to be able to refresh the page and instantly see which threads had unread posts and how many unread posts were in each thread.  Is there a way to bring this functionality back?

Benjamin:  I covered some of this in Posts #23 & 30.

I totally get what you're saying.  When a subscribed thread gets a new post it will jump to the top of my list.

What I'm saying is that there is no way for me to know when I look at my list of subscribed threads on my home page--WHICH of them has new posts.  Under the system that was in place yesterday, I would see the same list...but there was an indicator next to each thread which said HOW MANY new posts had been made in any given thread.  If the number of was zero, there were no new posts I hadn't already seen.  If there was a "3", there would be three new posts I hadn't seen yet.

Not only is that system not in place any more, there is no highlighting--no nothing--to indicate that I have checked a thread to see what new posts there are.  All the threads listed on the page look exactly the same.  There is NO WAY to tell which threads have new posts.  

If I see a list of 20 threads, how would I know if the top five threads have new posts...or the top ten threads have new posts...since the last time I visited my home page? 

I think a third icon for the left side of Subscribed Threads - something that either shows HOW MANY new posts since last check, or even something that indicates that there are SOME new posts would be helpful.  Something like this:



This way, a quick glance at the screen would tell me which threads I should check out.

Edit: This, of course, would be in addition to moving updated threads to the top of the list, but this way, you could easily tell where the cutoff between updated and non-updated threads is.

The plus sign is not for unread posts only... it's all the latest activity on the Thread. The problem that some are reporting is that they may have not read things even EARLIER than the five or so under the plus sign... at that point, clicking through to the thread to read is the only way to see those additional posts.

We are PUTTING THE NEW POST COUNT BACK

It was an oversight for which we apologize! It will be back in the next day.

You could do what I sorta suggested w/ that "+" feature for instance in my previous post asking about it -- I'll quote it here below for you and follow up on it:


I'll add that the "+" feature seems to show up for unsubscribed threads/items also -- when the subscriptions only option is not chosen.  But either way, it *only* seems to show up for me for threads/items to which I have never actually contributed.  For threads to which I've posted, they do not show the "+" feature at all (for no apparent reason).

Anyway, seems to me it would make sense for the "+" feature to show up whenever the listed thread has some new unread post(s).  That would probably help -- and would also make it a quick and easy way to get a glimpse of what new has been posted.  I would also recommend defaulting the listed new posts to the earliest unread ones, not the latest (though ideally, there should be some option to choose either).

Also, I'd suggest making that "+" sign/symbol a bit bigger *and* move it to the front/left-side of each listed item (probably in the lower left corner just below the subscription indicator icon) instead of the end/right-side, if that will indeed double as an indicator for new unread posts on top of being used to expand into those new posts.  Since there isn't anything clickable at the front/left-side of each listed item (near the lower left corner), moving it there probably shouldn't cause any real problem (like accidental wrong clicks) me thinks.  If you do that, it might be good to increase the space between that icon/indicator column and the rest of the item/thread listing info/etc. just a little bit for better aesthetics and (even) lower probability for user clicking error.

Here's what I mean roughly speaking (though I did not add any slight bit of space):



Actually, maybe a symbol other than "+" might be more suitable for the task, but I don't know offhand.

_Man_

  Is the idea behind this change that it's supposed to be easier?  That we're supposed to be able to read new posts without actually going to the thread to do it? 

And why would we want to see ALL the activity (such as edits)?  Again--I'm trying to understand what these changes were supposed to accomplish. 

I have no problem navigating away from the Home Screen to the actual thread in order to read new posts.  In fact, I prefer this to the new "+" button - since not only does the "+" button show duplicates of posts (in the case where they're edited) but they don't show the entire post if it's more than a couple of sentences in length.

To me, this makes the "+" button largely useless.  All I really want from my personalized home screen is:
1) Instant knowledge of which of my subscribed threads have new posts
2) A quick, "one-click" way to get to them.

That's it.  If there's anything else I want to know, then I'm more than happy to dig and look around for it.  Once I find it, I subscribe to it, so I don't have to look for it again.

It seems as if someone has already taken a stab at this since the "started by" name has stopped changing with every new post.  But will someone now be able to actually put back the name of the person who actually started the thread?



Word. 

This re-inventing of the wheel has got to stop.  We understand that we got a new wheel with the software switchover...but changing the things which were working while leaving the things which aren't working seems mighty pointless (and aggravating) to this member.

Mike,
You're right... it was an oversight not to maintain the New Post Count... we're putting this back today! Our apologies, it's a bug.

I will add a couple positives about this new change though.

With the additional info and ability to (un)subscribe to threads/items right there, it at least makes checking out recently updated unsubscribed items/threads via the Home page a fair bit nicer (and more useable).  Don't know how likely/often I'd actually turn off the "subscriptions only" option to check out unscribed stuff w/ it, but it's certainly a whole lot better than the listing way down below (on every page).

And of course, it's nice in general to be able to unsubscribe to stuff right there in the listing, instead of having to go to some other subscriptions management page that provide very limited info.

_Man_

Oh...  I guess the new post count will go under the subscription icon then?

_Man_

Scratch that.  It looks like the bug continues as before.  Latest poster's name is back as the thread originator. 

It did seem, however, like it had stopped for awhile.

Pardon the cross-posting, but no one is using the Feedback thread on this upgrade. Here are my thoughts from last night:

Lots of changes to the front page tonight. I was able to discover the settings to restore it back to the original view I prefer: thread titles I'm sub'd to with new posts. I'm neutral on these changes, and can believe that others will find helpful the new features. I'll have to explore more.

However, there are some "bugs"

* It shows all threads, not subscriptions by default. Everyone time I go to the front page, I must again click "Subscriptions" to see my subscriptions.

* Clicking thread titles of subscriptions takes me to the first post, not the first new post. For first new post I must click the teeny little "first new post" in the lower right.

* It does not mark thread read after reading new posts. The main page still lists the sub with "first new post" active, which takes me back to what I just read.

* It no longer shows the # of new posts. I prefer to see # of new posts.

I'm sure these are easily fixed; they were working fine an hour or two ago. I hope they are soon.


And then I noted...

Alas, I've found the front page is now useless to me; it's a clumsy and slow interface now. I've gone back to my old habit of using a direct link to AHL and then using the More Forums menu to navigate the forum and visually scanning thread titles. Navigation has regressed to a state worse than before the transition from vBulletin, as the More Forums is a lesser tool than the old-skool pop-up menu and the Back Page problems remain unfixed.

I hope these bugs are fixed soon. It's a real setback, for me anyway.

Mike,

You're 100% right about this bug... we're hoping to get this into the patch today, too! Michael Reuben pointed it out this morning, and we're on top of it. Thanks for speaking out about the bugs you're seeing.

We're fixing 5 bugs immediately...

* Subscriptions Only should be ON by default
* Feed settings should be saved completely!
* Summary View should be ON by default and saved!
* Last Edited By is being shown as Originator ...  we are fixing this
* NEW POST COUNT is being put back where it belongs!

I mean this kindly...

As HTF is undergoing rapid and massive changes, I think the team would benefit from an actual user of the forum who can weigh in during design and testing. With respect to the Huddler team, it feels like they don't "eat their own dog food" -- I'm dubious they're active users of this forum, else these bugs and negative changes would have been caught before going live. And while this is the baby of HTF ownership, they're no longer frequent participants the way many members are, and also may not feel the pain of these design decisions so as to speak up during design and testing.

That is, usability is being driven by non-users.

Or, there is a use-case in mind that many of us don't understand (nor follow). If the expectations for how members would participate in the forum could be elucidated, it could be very enlightening and helpful.

No disrespect meant to anyone, 'cause I'm a long-time member, really enjoy it here, and have no plans to leave :)

Dave,

I have no idea what kind of QA-ing this software sees before each release, but seems like it needs a whole lot more QA-ing than it's been getting.

It's actually not enough to have a few site users test it (just as it's no good to have developers do the QA testing) because we all tend to be creatures of habit and will not hit all the bugs that way.  We tend to only see bugs that just happen to cross our routine-centric paths.

For instance, there was an annoying scroll jump bug (at least w/ IE6 and IE7) before that didn't show up when using the mouse's scroll wheel instead of the cursor/page-up/down keys (when they actually work) or the actual dragging of the browser scrollbar -- and some will only use their scroll wheels while others will regularly drag the scroll bar (the old skool way) or use the cursor/page-up/down keys if/when they work.

But yeah, I agree in general that it seems like the software design and testing process could use a bit of a overhaul here, especially since the software is becoming more complex as we move forward.


Good point about the "first new post" link.  Now that that's more prominently displayed w/ its own explicit/dedicated link, it might be best to *not* show or enable the link when there are no actual new (unread) posts in the thread.

_Man_

I disagree in that basic features are being broken; things that immediately disrupt our "routine-centric paths" are screwed up. I found this in the first 10 seconds of seeing the new forum. I think I would have forseen the problem during design discussions before any code was made, any templates created.

It shows an utter lack of comprehension of basic forum usage; or a design goal very different from my expectations. If the latter, I look forward to getting it clarified. It would help a lot. Because either Huddler is wrong, or I'm using HTF really, really wrong.

I realize this sounds like much for a forum. But with this update it moved from "different" to "user hostile". MacRumors Forum and Tivo Community are easier to browse than HTF now.


Another bug:
* The first new post link is hidden until the user scrolls over its box. The single most important link of the user page, "first new post" is small, out of the way, and hidden. I look forward to this being fixed.
Edited by DaveF - 10/22/09 at 2:18pm