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More Warner B&W BD plans: Maltese Falcon, Marx Bros., Errol Flynn, Bette Davis, Bogart.

post #1 of 52
10/12/09 at 12:36pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3525

And

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/blu-ray-disc/black-white-blu-17280 (original article)

"They are currently planning on bringing more classic films to Blu-ray, including those from the Marx Brothers, Errol Flynn, Betty Davis and Humphrey Bogart. Already on schedule, "The Maltese Falcon" will be released next year on Blu-ray."

I know they've also been prepping King Kong (1933) and some of the Astaire/Rogers films per previous articles.

My guess is that the Marx Bros. title(s) has got to at least be A Night at the Opera, while Flynn is likely Captain Blood and/or The Sea Hawk. As for Davis.... Jezebel, perhaps? And hopefully some Bogart beyond The Maltese Falcon, perhaps even The Big Sleep or To Have or Have Not.
Edited by Brandon Conway - 10/12/09 at 1:11pm
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

King Kong [Blu-ray]
The Treasure of the Sierra Madre [Blu-ray]
The Maltese Falcon [Blu-ray]
post #2 of 52
10/12/09 at 12:45pm
More Bogey on BD is great news! With the Marx Brothers, though, I want to read more about any restoration plans. The film elements used for the current SD-DVD's look pretty rough. Without a major restoration effort, I doubt the upgrade to BD would be worthwhile.
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post #3 of 52
10/12/09 at 12:51pm
Thread Starter 
Well, restoration efforts aside, classic B&W will always benefit greatly from the HD upgrade because the grayscale does not have to be toned down like it is on SD (which is done to prevent the ringing/banding effect).
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post #4 of 52
10/12/09 at 2:45pm
From the same interview
Quote:
It’s not just the major studios trying out black and white on Blu-ray. Kino International announced in September the Nov. 10 release of Buster Keaton’s 1926 comedy The General on Blu-ray. Thanks to an original print that survived with only minor problems, Kino was able to make an HD transfer out of a 35mm print and paint out the few blemishes left over. 

 
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post #5 of 52
10/12/09 at 3:18pm
Thread Starter 
Yes, I am very excited about The General. I'm hoping that it sells well enough for a few more Kino distributed silent films to follow (notably Metropolis, The Black Pirate, Nosferatu and a few more Keaton comedies) and perhaps even the one Kurosawa they have rights to - Dersu Uzala.
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post #6 of 52
10/12/09 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Merryfield View Post

More Bogey on BD is great news! With the Marx Brothers, though, I want to read more about any restoration plans. The film elements used for the current SD-DVD's look pretty rough. Without a major restoration effort, I doubt the upgrade to BD would be worthwhile.

Didn't some recently discovered footage reappear for NIGHT AT THE OPERA? (Such as the beginning that shows they are in Italy) I would think this would be our only chance to seeing a really restored version with a first class presentation.
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post #7 of 52
10/12/09 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Morgan View Post

Didn't some recently discovered footage reappear for NIGHT AT THE OPERA? (Such as the beginning that shows they are in Italy) I would think this would be our only chance to seeing a really restored version with a first class presentation.


I remember reading that over in the SD DVD section way back but I'm pretty sure that it was never confirmed (and maybe not even remotely true).
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post #8 of 52
10/12/09 at 3:49pm

Very excited about The Maltese Falcon. I would also love to see a genuine clean up on The Big Sleep. The dvd release looked a little milky compared to the Falcon with quite a bit of flicker.

Doug

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post #9 of 52
10/12/09 at 3:54pm
Thread Starter 
The DVD release of The Big Sleep is relatively old now (Feb. 2000), so they could definitely improve it. Hopefully they'll include both versions if they decide to do it.

Other Bogart potentials would have to be The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, Key Largo, and Dark Passage.

In fact, probably a great indicator of potential Warner catalog titles would be any release that got a 2-Disc SE from 2000-2007 or so, a la The Adventures of Robin Hood and Casablanca.

Personally, I'm holding out hope for Bringing Up Baby.
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post #10 of 52
10/12/09 at 4:32pm
This is the best tease I've heard in a long time. Marxes in hi def! I hope its Treasure of the Sierra Madre (awful PQ on its SE DVD). Such a grainy, messy film (I've seen it on film on the big screen) it really would benefit from greater resolution/bit rate.

I've guessed elsewhere that the Bette Davis might be the obvious flagship title All About Eve, or perhaps from a later decade Whatever Happened To Baby Jane.
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post #11 of 52
10/12/09 at 4:36pm
Thread Starter 
All About Eve is a Fox title (which they should release, by the way), so Whatever Happened... seems possible for Warner. Maybe Dark Victory?
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post #12 of 52
10/12/09 at 4:59pm
 I'm hoping that the French company that did The General will do a Blu-Ray of it - I have never seen a better transfer, and there's no way the Kino will be as good - and the French has a great score by Joe Hisaishi that is perfect for the film.  Fingers crossed, because I have little faith in Kino based on the hyperbole of their press releases versus the actual transfer on view.
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post #13 of 52
10/12/09 at 5:23pm
Kino's Keaton DVDs are older than the M2K ones, which are, as you say, superb. The Masters of Cinema Keaton shorts were far superior too to Kino's Keaton box, but still, if you're a Buster fanatic like me, you won't want to wait till another company announces it... This one's got a release date! Yippee!
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post #14 of 52
10/12/09 at 6:25pm
Thread Starter 
It also sounds like Kino is using a rather solid 35mm print for the basis of their transfer, so here's hoping....
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post #15 of 52
10/12/09 at 7:04pm
The KINO transfer is from a fine grain made from the camera negative.  It will look spectacular, I am sure.
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post #16 of 52
10/12/09 at 7:54pm
It better do. Still a month away...
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post #17 of 52
10/12/09 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway View Post

All About Eve is a Fox title (which they should release, by the way), so Whatever Happened... seems possible for Warner. Maybe Dark Victory?
 

Just did a quick imdb and turns out aside from the one I remembered (Dark Victory), Bogie and Bette's careers intersected quite a bit. They starred together:

The Petrified Forest (1936), Marked Woman (1937).

As well as these, where Bogie was a minor character:

The Bad Sister (1931),  Three on a Match (1932).

Most famous of all of these I would say is Dark Victory (1939), also featuring Ronald Reagan. I'm hoping one of these pictures doesn't kill two hopes with one stone, particularly seeings it would cancel out the possibility of a Big Sleep or a Sierra Madre... But still, its a possibility..
Edited by Ben Cheshire - 10/13/09 at 5:49am
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post #18 of 52
10/12/09 at 8:13pm
And re: Errol Flynn, he starred in several directed by Michael Curtiz that have featured in really nice DVD editions from Warners with original poster art. There are about 37 different movies he starred in for Warners that might be referred to in this "black and white" themed press-release. Hopefully its a swashbuckler. I haven't seen any Errol Flynn really aside from Robin Hood, which I adore, so this'll be a good opportunity to blind buy whichever one Warners chooses for me.
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post #19 of 52
10/12/09 at 8:19pm
Thread Starter 
Captain Blood and The Sea Hawk are easily the Flynn films that will get looked at first. Not only are they top notch entertainment, but they had really nice DVD transfers, they were both in the Errol Flynn Vol.1 box set, and they are both historically good selling films on home video. Of the other titles in that Vol. 1 box set, 2 were color (Dodge City, The Private Lives of Elizabeth and Essex), and They Died with Their Boots On is not quite on par in popularity/quality of film as Captain Blood and The Sea Hawk.

As for Bogart/Davis collaborations, only Dark Victory and The Petrified Forest have a video history that suggests good enough sales/interest to release on BD.

For what it's worth, just looking at 2-Disc SEs that Warner released between 2002-2007, here's what is not yet on/announced for BD (though I may be missing a handful). Black & White films italicized:

All the President's Men (1976)
Around the World in 80 Days (1956)
The Band Wagon (1953)
Ben-Hur (1959) (4-disc, including Ben-Hur (1925)) (Known to be on the schedule)
The Big One (1980)
Bringing Up Baby (1938)
The Cardinal (1963)
Chariots of Fire (1981)
Citizen Kane (1941) (Known to be on the schedule for 2011)
The Color Purple (1985)
Doctor Zhivago (1965) (Known to be on the schedule for 2010)
East of Eden (1954)
Easter Parade (1948)
Forbidden Planet (1956) (Released on HD-DVD; should make it out on BD sooner or later)
Giant (1956)
Grand Prix (1966) (Released on HD-DVD; should make it out on BD sooner or later)
The Green Mile (1999)
Hamlet (1996)
The Jazz Singer (1927) (3-disc)
King Kong (1933) (Known to be on the schedule)
Malcolm X (1992)
The Maltese Falcon (1943) (3-disc) (Known to be on the schedule for 2010)
Meet Me in St. Louis (1944)
The Mission (1986)
Mutiny on the Bounty (1962) (Released on HD-DVD; should make it out on BD sooner or later)
Network (1976)
New Jack City (1991)
O Lucky Man! (1973)
Once Upon a Time in America (1984)
The Outsiders - The Complete Novel (1983)
Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid (1973)
The Philadelphia Story (1940)
Prince of the City (1981)
Rebel without a Cause (1955)
The Right Stuff (1983)
Ryan's Daughter (1970)
Selena (1997)
Seven Brides for Seven Brothers (1955)
Singin' in the Rain (1952) (Known to be on the schedule)
Space Jam (1996)
Strangers on a Train (1951)
A Streetcar Named Desire (1951)
The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948)
The Unbearable Lightness of Being (1988)
What Ever Happened to Baby Jane? (1962)
Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? (1966)
Yankee Doodle Dandy (1942)

If I'm a betting man, I look at that list and see amongst them the most probable titles to get upgraded to BD.

Plus, here's a few prominent 1-disc catalog releases that were released in that time period:

The films of the Gangster collection Vol. 1: The Public Enemy, Little Caesar, Angels with Dirty Faces, White Heat, The Petrified Forest, The Roaring Twenties

Marx Bros: A Night at the Opera is the most obvious. Perhaps A Day at the Races. A Night in Casablanca's distribution rights have not been renewed apparently. The 4 films on the 2 double-feature discs seem unlikely.

Maybe some Garbo: Ninotchka and Grand Hotel would be most likely.

We also know that the Astaire/Rogers films are being considered, which I take to mean the more popular ones: Top Hat, Shall We Dance, and Swing Time. Perhaps The Gay Divorcee as well.

Just some ideas....
Edited by Brandon Conway - 10/12/09 at 8:48pm
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post #20 of 52
10/12/09 at 8:44pm
I take that Marx Bros. news with a grain of salt... Planning could mean someone saying "we own a few Marx Brothers films right?"

Collectors have been looking for better elements for years. I'm talking Horse Feathers and Night at the Opera (which has been missing footage since WW2). Those obsessed with the Marx Brothers know there isn't much out there. They had a chance to show off what they had back in 2004 on DVD and it wasn't much. Warner has never said anything about going to Hungary to get that complete print of Night of the Opera rumored to be sitting in some vault.
Edited by Doug Gaertner - 10/12/09 at 9:16pm
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post #21 of 52
10/13/09 at 5:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway View Post

For what it's worth, just looking at 2-Disc SEs that Warner released between 2002-2007, here's what is not yet on/announced for BD (though I may be missing a handful). Black & White films italicized:
 

Excellent work, Brandon.

I've also discovered another form of research. Amazon has Dark Victory dropped to fire sale numbers perhaps preceding an official announcement: its either a bargain or a terrible mistake, if its coming on BD next year!

http://www.amazon.com/Victory-Restored-Remastered-Bette-Davis/dp/B0008ENIDE/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_cart_f

Dropped to rock bottom: $6 in most cases, except where noted.

Dark Victory
Charge of the Light Brigade
Jezebel
The Sea hawk
Rebel Without a Cause (discontinued!)
Sorry Wrong Number
Stagecoach (Single Disc),
Dial M. For Murder,
Ninotcha
Dinner at Eight
The Thin Man
The Letter
Out of the Past
To Have and Have Not,

Some other classics with rock-bottom prices, as with the above, which may or may not be related to impending BD releases: Foreign Correspondent,  House of Wax, Oliver! Long Voyage Home,  Curse of Frankenstein, Jason and the Argonauts, Blowup, The Bad Seed, Wait Until Dark.

Not dropped to rock bottom:

Now Voyager, Petrified Forest, Captain Blood, Sierra Madre, Baby Jane, A Night in Casablanca, Night at the Opera, Day at the Races, Top Hat, Follow the Fleet, Shall We Dance, Bringing Up Baby, Strangers on a Train, Yankee Doodle Dandy, Who's... Virginia Woolf, Band Wagon, Meet Me In St. Louis.Philadelphia Story, Queen Christina, Camille, The Little Foxes, Key Largo, High Sierra,

Of course The Maltese Falcon 3-disc SE has not gone rock bottom, but that doesn't help prove my theory, so I won't mention it.
Edited by Ben Cheshire - 10/13/09 at 5:16am
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post #22 of 52
10/13/09 at 5:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Cheshire View Post




Just did a quick imdb and turns out aside from the one I remembered (Dark Victory), Bogie and Bette's careers intersected quite a bit. They starred together:

The Petrified Forest (1936), Marked Woman (1937).

As well as these, where Bogie was a minor character:

The Bad Sister (1931),  Three on a March (1932).

Most famous of all of these I would say is Dark Victory (1939), also featuring Ronald Reagan. I'm hoping one of these pictures doesn't kill two hopes with one stone, particularly seeings it would cancel out the possibility of a Big Sleep or a Sierra Madre... But still, its a possibility..

I believe that should be Three on a Match -- it's in one of the SD-DVD Forbidden Hollywood volumes.
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post #23 of 52
10/13/09 at 5:49am
Corrected, ta.
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post #24 of 52
10/13/09 at 6:02am
My first choices would be Captain Blood and Petrified Forest. Those would be easy double dips in BR for me.
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post #25 of 52
10/13/09 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyFeldman View Post

 I'm hoping that the French company that did The General will do a Blu-Ray of it - I have never seen a better transfer, and there's no way the Kino will be as good - and the French has a great score by Joe Hisaishi that is perfect for the film.  Fingers crossed, because I have little faith in Kino based on the hyperbole of their press releases versus the actual transfer on view.
I have both the French Cinema Club DVD and the Kino re-released DVD of The General. The French version looks great. They used a great print and did some cleanup as it looks spotless. However, I did not care for Joe Hisaishi's score. It was good as music, but IMO did not fit a film set in the Civil war. It was almost as if the score was composed for something else, and then Hisaishi got the call to do The General, and tried to recycle something he'd already written. It is frequently in the minor key, and has a tragic cast to it that does not fit a comedy/historical adventure. It seems like it would fit a European drama better than The General. Unfortunately, Robert Israel's alternate score is not one of his best, IMO.

The Kino DVD also uses a very good print. However, unlike the French DVD, they did not do a lot of cleanup, so spots and flecks occur. Also unlike the Cinema Club version, they applied the original tinting to the movie. I think The General is more atmospheric with the tints applied. Also, the Kino version includes Carl Davis' superb score from the Thames silents series. Over all, I definitely prefer the current Kino version of the General to all others. I expect their Blu-ray to be great.

The Cinema Club DVD versions of College, Steamboat Bill, Jr. and Three Ages are also quite worthwhile, with some cleanup done to the prints. The scores from The Art of Buster Keaton versions were retained for these versions.
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post #26 of 52
10/13/09 at 8:21am
Buster's shorts are often more brilliant and funny than his features; would be amazing if Masters of Cinema, for example, had the resources to convert their box into high def...
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post #27 of 52
10/13/09 at 10:09am
 Does anyone else get a good news/bad news feeling from this? The good news, of course, being the potential release of more classic B/W films on Blu-Ray. The bad news coming from this in the original Home Media Magazine article:
Quote:
For Warner, cleaning up a black-and-white film for Blu-ray isn’t an easy or cheap process. "There’s an extraordinary expense in bringing these to Blu-ray," Feltenstein said.

I can't help but draw the inference that such expenses can be commercially viable only for high-profile titles of the broadest appeal. In other words, the Maltese Falcons, Wonderful Lifes, Night at the Operas, etc., skimming from the uppermost strata of the classic catalog exclusively.
 
Previously, we've seen comments from industry spokesmen that existing high-def transfers, from which standard-def downsamples have been used for DVD releases for some time now, aren't up to snuff for what Blu-Ray buyers expect. Probably that's true for many buyers. But I wonder - what would one of these high-def transfers actually look like on a Blu-Ray disc? It's hard to believe they wouldn't look appreciably better than their downsampled, edge-enhanced, compressed-for-DVD counterparts.
 
If so, how's this for an idea? Release lower-echelon classics in their existing high-def transfers, porting over any DVD extras in standard-def, and pricing them as if they were paperback book reprints - maybe $10-$12 list, with the expectation of normal street price discounting. There'd be lots of film noir titles, for example, that I'd be eager to upgrade on that basis.
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post #28 of 52
10/13/09 at 10:13am
Excited about Maltese Falcon. As for Errol Flynn, here's hoping it's Captain Blood, as it is a very good movie.

-R
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post #29 of 52
10/13/09 at 10:22am
I like your idea, Paul!

Doug
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post #30 of 52
10/13/09 at 11:44am
Thread Starter 
Paul - Interesting idea, but I don't think they would help themselves by undercutting their perceived A/V quality. It would be shooting themselves in the foot.

Ben - great research there. Some of those are going OOP because Warner is not renewing the licensing agreement (Stagecoach, Foreign Correspondent), but I think you may be on to something with titles like Rebel without a Cause.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

King Kong [Blu-ray]
The Treasure of the Sierra Madre [Blu-ray]
The Maltese Falcon [Blu-ray]
Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › More Warner B&W BD plans: Maltese Falcon, Marx Bros., Errol Flynn, Bette Davis, Bogart.