A few words about...™ Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs -- in Blu-ray - Page 5

It wasn't just widescreen crop, it was a 70mm blowup. Can you imagine the golf ball sized grain?

Doug

They did a similar thing with Wizard of Oz back in 98(?) with the wide general re-release. A lot of the theaters that were not showing the technicolor print version displayed it cropped to 1.85. Oh, the horror! Any of the theatres showing the true technicolor print had it correct. And man did that print look gorgeous. Even the current BD doesn't hold up.


Come to think of it, I'm not sure if I've ever seen Gone With the Wind outside of TV broadcasts either. It's been quite a long time since I've seen this. I should check out the new BD when it comes out.

Back in my younger days, I worked at a theatre through High School that played all the Disney films.  Whenever a picture was released that was made before 1953 such as Snow White, Song of the South, Dumbo, So Dear To My Heart, there was an enclosed notice to the projectionist that the correct aspect ratio was 1:33 to 1 and should be projected in that image.  The theatre was built in the 40's so it still had masking and lens that would be able to present the film properly.  I learned about film ratio from those very knowledgeable men and a lot of other things dealing with 35mm and 70mm. 

Years later I was working for a large theatre circuit in the corporate office and there was a re-release of Gone With the Wind, this was around 1989 and one of our new theatres was sent a 1:33:1 print and no one could answer the question why were the heads chopped off, even the projection tech.  I just shook my head found a old lens that was at corp office being used as a doorstop that would worked.

The same company also played the 1999 re-release of the Wizard Of Oz and we had a few of the IB Tech OAR prints and this time we made sure we were masked and lensed properly at all the theatres .  I have to agree with Mr. Bulkis that the print was stunning.  That was the first time I saw the cord manipulating the lion's tale.  I am sure it was the size of the screen, but my impression of that print is that it was better than the Blu-ray that is out now.

And I have admit the Blu-ray version of Snow White is the most stunning I have ever seen this film look.

The new Blu-ray brings out the presence and dimension of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.
It is also thoroughly scrubbed, but not in a bad way.
Still, the scanning process exposes a kind of ricketyness in the animation that wasn't apparent to me before.
I wonder if it is appropriate to expose this kind of film to digital tools.
i wonder if a Blu-ray edition was really necessary, or if a 4K scan was really necessary when it looked fine before.
Maybe the 4K scan is too intrusive, like an x-ray at the airport, as if we're all looking up Snow White's skirt.
I'm not sure I like it, even though I can't say it's wrong, it doesn't feel right.

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/special/gwtw.htm

Snow White was my first crush as a kid...too bad she was a cartoon.

Hey....does anybody remember the "Snow White Live" broadcast about 20 years ago?  It was a live performance from Radio City Music Hall, shown on ABC and probably the Disney Channel as well.  It was a pretty good Broadway-style big budget performance....it actually made more of an impression on me as a kid than the animated movie did.  I was half hoping it was gonna show up as a standard def extra on this set (or maybe even HD if it was shot on film, but I doubt it).  Anyone know it there's any plans to ever release this?

I hope she let you down easy, Stephen...

You're probably better off anyway...she was kind of a hussy hanging out with all those other men.

I have not seen it but I have heard of it. It aired on HBO in 1980, and in the early 1980s got a blink-and-you'll-miss-it video release which now goes for three-digit-figures used.

I've still got a crush on Jessica Rabbit.

It was re-broadcast in the later 80s on the Disney channel; I taped it and still have it. I would LOVE to have a dvd upgrade! On youtube, there is a series of documentaries on the making of this 1979 Radio City Music Hall production, which was the first of Disney's films to be translated to the Broadway stage--it pre-dated Disney's current Broadway success by a good 15+ years, and I can't imagine why they don't bring it back.

i just got my copy of the movie and i was kinda shocked that disney did the opening titles in windowbox mode. why did they do this? i doubt this was in the original theatrical release.

yes, i complained about windowboxing on the bond films and i still see no reason to use this "feature" at all on any movie. especially on blu-ray!!!

the other two little nitpick i have is the lossy dolby track for the original mono audio. studios should do them in lossless too. and for crying out loud... give us standard subs. these sdh subs are annoying.

other then that, the film looks sweet :D

You're joking, aren't you? 


(Or else, which is hardly to be believed, you didn't bother to read about 10 posts - #67 to #77 - in this same thread, discussing and explaining that phenomenon.)


Cees

Cees, Enrico is talking about windowboxing of the credits, not the 1.33:1 AR.

And like I've always said - the studios will always keep titles within the "title safe" area. It's simply the way it is done.

Brandon,

Dave Moritz was complaining about the 1.33:1 AR (post #80, I thought he was joking too, first), but the posts I referred to now are about the opening credits!

And yes, the "safe area" topic  was what it was all about.


Cees

Ah, yes,you are correct....

I'm a little confused about windowboxing. Do we ever know that we are getting the complete image, even when it is windowboxed? The new Snow White features more info. at the top and bottom of the windowboxed credits, even though the 2001 version was also windowboxed.

I have no doubt  Snow White looks great on blu-ray, but if I compare it to Gone with the wind and The wizard of Oz in terms of grain, I can´t see any resemblance: I can´t see the grain in Snow White, so my question is: why haven´t I heard any complains yet? What would everyone say if GWTW had been degrained this way?

Widescreen Review has something about the extras on the set,wonder if they bring up the fact that it dosn't work right
on many Sony Players ? or how that stupid Java Time line pops up every time you freeze frame the picture.

I douet it!!

The argument is that animation is different, because the "original picture" is the animation cel.  With live photography, though, the grain is the picture.

Velvety? Or just mushy? I can't imagine it being a pleasant experience.

Doug

Let's look at the following picture:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8162/blurayt.jpg

this screenshot has been taken from Snow White Blu-ray 2nd disc and it's from Music Land Short, this short is at 1920x1080 and to be in real HD (as Snow White is) it should be taken from original negatives.

The short had been made in 3-strip technicolor, as well as Snow White movie, but the mis-alignment of colors is not present in Snow White Movie; how can this happen? The same happens for other color Shorts on the same disc and for Grasshopper and The Ant which is located on A Bug's Life Blu-ray; would this mean the source is not the orignal negative but it's an upscale from Standard Definition (maybe Digibeta or so) ? (it''s not HD but SD?)

It clearly a wrong alignment of the 3 strips, but how can this happen ? And in which case? Positive print, digital combination of negative separate scans?

Any information would really be much appreciated

To me, all the shorts they've been using on the blurays look like upscaled versions of the materials used for the Walt Disney Treasures tins. That said, I do know that Disney is slowly remastering all of its product, (in some fashion or other). Hopefully, we will see the results of those efforts soon, and that they'll be worthwhile.

This could explain why there's a mis-alignment in colors. As far as I can remember he short Thru the mirror on Alice in Wonderland Blu-Ray is not affected by this issue. On the other side I also heard that Disney vault had been only asked for negative scans of Classics and not of short, meaning the short source can be an upscaled digibeta or a 35mm positive print telecine. In both those cases the resolution would be not a true full HD one. If you could have some info by Disney Blu-ray production about the source it would be great. Thanks a lot for your reply.

I still say it looks like they used reissue dye-transfer ips for some of these like The Old Mill and The Grasshopper and the Ant (title cards give it away) and the registration problems are mostly the result of the bad optical combinations of the time. There pretty much isn't a thing as a vintage dye transfer print made from 3-Strip Technicolor that has 100% perfect registration.

You mean in this case a positive print has been used as a source for HD Telecine /scan?

What does this would mean? Could the source be a positive print (obtained by combining/aligning the 3 strips) instead of the original negative ?

Oh I don't disagree at all, generally the registration is definitely in the mid to upper 90s most of the time, but even on the vintage prints there are moments where the yellow layer are a little out of alignment. MusicLand, which I'm watching right now has a fair share of these instances.

 

Its really on a short to short basis. Flowers and Trees fares much better than Babes in the Woods for instance.