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Dollhouse - season 2 - Page 3
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- TravisR
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Yes, there is more to a woman than just wanting money. However in these case of dollhouse clients, that has nothing to do with it. The clients are getting a fake that's programmed to think that they like them. To me, there's little to no difference between someone who is 'forced' to be attracted to someone for a day or two and someone who is just faking interest for money.
Quote from Cameron "It wasn't that he couldn't get a woman, it's that he couldn't get Priya/Sierra."
In this case but speaking more generally, the majority of the dollhouse clients are seeing different girls (presumably so the clients don't fall for an operative). That just leads me back to the question of what kind of kinks must these guys have that they need a brain washed woman over a regular high class hooker who will say or do anything for the right price.
They touched on that when the show began - it's one thing to have someone say they love you as they are playing a part, but it's another to have someone actually know and believe it with every fiber of their being. For the doll, it IS real, and that is what makes all the difference.
- Adam Lenhardt
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There's the small matter of a contract and choice. The Dollhouse employees have been able to labor under the protective umbrella of choice. The dolls agreed to do these things (even though they didn't know what things they'd be doing) for a period of time in exchange for something. None of them, that we know of, agreed to do in perpetuity -- until now.
Exactly. This episode actually calls into question the flashbacks we'd seen in "Epitaph One". When Rossum Corp. revised its business model to sell the dolls as a form of immortality, DeWitt balked and threatened to walk out. That was presumably the first time the "rules" of the Dollhouse were violated in such a serious way. Thursday's episode presents basically the same dilemma: DeWitt and Topher were under the impression that Sierra was a mentally ill woman who was being granted a reprieve from insanity by being transformed into a doll. Once Topher uncovered that this was not the case, DeWitt was presented for the first time with the "rules" of the Dollhouse being violated. She protested and threatened to quit here, too, and the Rossum guy again called her bluff.
There is a big difference between indentured servitude and slavery. The second is expressly forbidden by the United States Consitution, for one thing, while the first is forbidden only when said servitude is involuntary. The rest of the dolls (presumably) signed a three-year contract like Caroline did. The would who became Sierra never had that choice.
What DeWitt in fact pointed out was that the Dollhouse employees were chosen because they were already compromised morally before they stepped through the door. Squeaky clean people can work in such a morally bankrupt environment. And while the Dollhouse makes every effort to protect its assets, there's no 100 percent way to ensure that no harm comes to them. Signing away three years of one's life is a risk.
Nolan Kinnard was Rossum's prize pet, a unique asset that provided services that no other asset could provide. Since Rossum is an essentially God-like organization, Nolan was extended essentially God-like influence. At the point where he met the woman who would become Sierra, it had probably been a long time since anyone had said "no" to him. He couldn't stand it. Ironically, the best way for Sierra to free herself from Nolan would have been to indulge his infatuation until he tired of her and cast her aside. By turning him down, she ensured that he would settle for nobody else.
I loved everything that scene said about the character histories for Boyd and Topher. Boyd is arguably the most moral of the Dollhouse staff, but if his expertise in disappearing murder scenes is any indication he might also have the dirtiest past. Topher is arguably the least moral of the Dollhouse staff -- if something repulses him, you know it's really bad -- but his discomfort at dissembling and dissolving Nolan's body made it clear that he has no experience with getting his hands dirty.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Boyd had Topher do the dirty work, either. He's the best kind of teacher, the type that knows when his students need to experience horrible things to comprehend the lessons they need to learn. Boyd couldn't let Topher forget that he turned the real woman behind Sierra into a murderer, even though Boyd himself probably condoned the decision.

Yes, there is more to a woman than just wanting money. However in these case of dollhouse clients, that has nothing to do with it. The clients are getting a fake that's programmed to think that they like them. To me, there's little to no difference between someone who is 'forced' to be attracted to someone for a day or two and someone who is just faking interest for money.
The difference is night and day. Maybe not on a moral plane -- if anything, "renting" the dolls is far worse -- but from an experience standpoint. The best escorts make the exorbinant amounts of money because they are the most skilled actresses. Prostitution is often about creating an illusion, to fill in something missing in the client's real life. In addition to providing valuable skillsets on demand, the Dollhouses perfect that illusion. For the length of the contract, the experience shared between the client and the doll is completely real. The persona crafted from Frankenstein parts is naturally everything the client needs or desires. They are not 'forced' to be attracted; they are designed to be attracted. If anything, it's the clients that are performing a role since they must fulfill whatever scenerio the doll has been imprinted to expect.
Except for the horny male looking for a quicky to satisfy carnal needs, everyone who seeks out a hooker has kinks or something missing in his life. The clients of the Dollhouse merely have greater means with which to compensate.
- Keith Plucker
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http://www.tvsquad.com/2009/11/11/fox-cancels-dollhouse/
-Keith
| [11.11.09 - 12:48 PM] FOX TO CAP "DOLLHOUSE" SEASON AT 13 EPISODES By Brian Ford Sullivan (TFC) |
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LOS ANGELES (thefutoncritic.com) -- FOX has passed on ordering additional episodes of "Dollhouse," network sources have confirmed to the site. The network however was quick to stress the series hasn't been canceled as they are simply capping its second season at 13 episodes. The show's fate will then ultimately be decided sometime next year. As previously announced, "Dollhouse" will return with back-to-back episodes on December 4, 11 and 18 before resuming its regular Friday, 9:00/8:00c slot on January 8. The news comes as FOX preps its midseason schedule, which is expected to be announced soon. [UPDATED: The Hollywood Reporter's story indicates it has indeed been canceled, meaning we were just given the company line of never actually admitting something is canceled. We apologize for any false hope this story may inadvertently generate.] |
Hmm. Apparently my news is not news.
I don't have a lot to say. I'm extremely proud of the people I've worked with: my star, my staff, my cast, my crew. I feel the show is getting better pretty much every week, and I think you'll agree in the coming months. I'm grateful that we got to put it on, and then come back and put it on again.
I'm off to pursue internet ventures/binge drinking. Possibly that relaxation thing I've read so much about. By the time the last episode airs, you'll know what my next project is. But for now there's a lot of work still to be done, and disappointment to bear.
Thank you all for your support, your patience, your excellent adverts. See you again. -j.
- Mark Talmadge
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I think anyone who creates a television series should avoid Fox like the plague. They have an indefinite hatred for sci-fi shows. Take a look:
Firefly --- Canceled
Angel ---- Canceled
Sarah Connor Chronicles ---- Canceled
Dollhouse ---- Canceled
Notice how Fox is constantly canceling any television show created by Joss Whedon? I think Mr. Whedon needs to look at other networks because it's obvious that Fox has a lot of antipathy toward this man. It's funny how th,ey canceled SCC in favor of Dollhouse considering that Dollhouse's ratings were weaker than Sarah, Connor Chronicles. Serves them right.
I'll miss the show, but I'm at a complete loss as to why anyone expects Fox to continue airing a show if enough people aren't watching. Maybe Joss should realize he's a niche guy and he needs to find a way to create shows with budgets that fit his niche audience. Or maybe he wants to keep trying for big budget shows hoping he'll one day strike gold. That's fine if that's his cup of tea, but there's no point in fans blaming Fox if he can't deliver.

YAY!!! Fox has canceled Dollhouse. This is what Fox gets for canceling Sarah Connor Chronicles.
I think anyone who creates a television series should avoid Fox like the plague. They have an indefinite hatred for sci-fi shows. Take a look:
Firefly --- Canceled
Angel ---- Canceled
Sarah Connor Chronicles ---- Canceled
Dollhouse ---- Canceled
Notice how Fox is constantly canceling any television show created by Joss Whedon? I think Mr. Whedon needs to look at other networks because it's obvious that Fox has a lot of antipathy toward this man. It's funny how th,ey canceled SCC in favor of Dollhouse considering that Dollhouse's ratings were weaker than Sarah, Connor Chronicles. Serves them right.
Say what you want about Fox cancelling shows too, but they've gotten a lot better about letting the full order finish to give us at least some sort of closure, and even giving both Terminator and Dollhouse a second year to try and develop, when quite frankly neither really had the viewers to deserve it.
- TravisR
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Or Firefly. While Fox canned it after 13 episodes, those 13 episodes wouldn't exist without them.
- Adam Lenhardt
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"If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." I preferred "T:SCC," too, but that doesn't mean I'm happy "Dollhouse" got cancelled. Besides, why rub it in the faces of the people who did really enjoy this show? The cancellation's bad enough.
Firefly --- Canceled
Angel ---- Canceled
Sarah Connor Chronicles ---- Canceled
Dollhouse ---- Canceled
I could add another dozen shows to your list, plus an extra to make up for the fact that "Angel" was (as mentioned) a WB show. It wouldn't make your point any more valid. The fact that Fox has canceled more sci-fi shows than any other network simply means that they've taken a chance on FAR more sci-fi shows than any other network. The only CBS sci-fi show that's survived long-term is "Ghost Whisperer". If the ratings for freshman series "V" and "Flash Forward" drop off, "Lost" wil lbe the only ABC sci-fi show that survived long term.
It's not like Fox chose one show over the other. At the end of last season, both "T:SCC" and "Dollhouse" were on the bubble. Ratings-wise, Fox would have been justified in cancelling both of them. But while "T:SCC" had marginally higher ratings, it was far more expensive than "Dollhouse" and couldn't slash its budget the way "Dollhouse" could. Also, the production side of Fox owns "Dollhouse", which means it makes money on DVD sales, syndication, and international rights that it wouldn't make from "T:SCC" which was (I believe) a Warner Bros. show. Besides, you're comparing the first season of "Dollhouse" to the second season of "T:SCC". When "T:SCC" was canceled, Fox had already given it a second chance.
If anything, the 13-episode second season shows how much Fox is willing to bend over backwards for shows with cult audiences. At the end of the day, it's a business though. When repeats of other shows get higher ratings than fresh episodes of a show, that show's days are numbered.
And while the shows might have done better on a different night, the ratings expectations would have also been much higher. I can't blame Fox for its strategy.
Hopefully Joss and Co. use the two episodes they have yet to shoot to give the show a proper ending, perhaps even with an "Epitaph Two".
I liked T:TSCC, however, the ratings for it were also crap. But T:TSCC had two other things going against it.. Dollhouse was a studio run show, and they were able to cut the budget to next to nothing by changing cameras and cutting cast/changing cast. In fact, Dollhouse was sold to them for a second season at almost 1/2 the price of the first per episode.
Fox gave T:TSCC 2 seasons to try and build an audience. It didn't. Fox gave Dollhouse 2 years to try and build an audience, and it didn't.
Lots of other networks would have never given a chance at all.
So, I have nothing against Fox. If Dollhouse were on NBC, it would have been dead six episodes in (ask "Kings") if it were on CBS, a very successful ratings network, they might have taken a chance (see: Jericho) but probably not long term.
Dollhouse was never a good fit for Fox. The content really needed to be on FX to explorer the real darker side you can't do on broadcast TV. But que sera, and I thank Fox for giving it a try when no other network would. Fox continues to take chances rather then play it safe. I can't fault them for that. If NBC did that instead of crank out garbage, things might be different.
- Josh Dial
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Acting: Decent, overall, but not in the right places. Eliza Dushku, Fran Kranz (simply crap), Dichen Lachman, and most of the actors in "client" roles were poor. Harry Lennix, Tahmoh Penikett, Amy Acker, Miracle Laurie, and Olivia Williams were all great. However, you really need your lead to be amazing, and your guest stars need to be likewise amazing. The best guest stars were from Battlestar or Firefly.
Writing: It's hard to judge the writing on its own, because most of it was terribly delivered by Dushku, Kranz, or the clients. However, there was very little of the charm that you expect from a Whedon production, certainly nowhere near approaching the level of Firefly (and I'm not even a FF fan).
Story: Interesting premise, but ultimately unsatisfying for me, because of poorly-written characters. Normally, I love dark, morally-grey characters and stories. But in Dollhouse, I simply didn't care about most of the characters, or what happened to them. All I know is I wanted Ballard to "win," but I didn't even know what that was.
Set design and other technical stuff like lighting: Amazing. Easily the best thing about the show was the crew behind the cameras. The show was gritty when it needed to be, perfectly polished elsewhere.
Directing: Mostly safe and by the books. I can't think of a single episode that stood out for me in this area, though I remember strongly disliking the direction in episode at the mansion with the client who put herself into Echo after dying. Actually, I do remember liking the direction in the religious cult episode.
Overall, the show just wasn't that good. Not when I can watch LOST or BSG for my sci-fi/fantasy fix. I know, they are on different networks, LOST is on its way out, BSG is over (Caprica is coming though!), on at different times, et cetera. My point is that I think a lot of people were watching Dollhouse just so they could support Joss Whedon, and not because the show was actually amazing.
- Mark Talmadge
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Oh, and Angel is owned by 20th Century Fox and so is Buffy. I have the shows right in front of me. Warner lost the rights to the shows and Fox picked it up after the 5th season. Fox also ended up with Angel as well.
- Mark Talmadge
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If the show were Warners, then Fox Home Video would not have released the series to DVD.
- TravisR
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Cameron, actually, that is incorrect. It's part of Fox Broadcasting, which, runs Fox Studios, 20th, Century Fox, etc. Not to mention that the show ran on UPN which ran its broadcasting through Fox affiliate TV networks.
If the show were Warners, then Fox Home Video would not have released the series to DVD.
Fox Broadcasting Company does not run 20th Century Fox or Fox Studios (which is a studio in Australia where they shoot movies).
UPN was Paramount's network. Maybe in some markets, they ran programs on a Fox affiliate but it certainly wasn't the norm.
And as has been said, Buffy and Angel were produced by Fox and aired on The WB and UPN. Fox had nothing to do with either show being cancelled as you first said.
If they can give it a good sendoff, it will at least have been treated better by Fox than Firefly was.
That's my experience in a nutshell. I so wanted to like it, but after 15 episodes, I just got tired of cringing at Eliza's line readings and the stream of uninspired episodes. As I recall, I only liked three. The rest were forgettable to flat out bad.

Acting: Decent, overall, but not in the right places. Eliza Dushku, Fran Kranz (simply crap), Dichen Lachman, and most of the actors in "client" roles were poor. Harry Lennix, Tahmoh Penikett, Amy Acker, Miracle Laurie, and Olivia Williams were all great. However, you really need your lead to be amazing, and your guest stars need to be likewise amazing. The best guest stars were from Battlestar or Firefly.
Was Enver Gjokai left off the list intentionally or just forgotten?
No issues here or anything, it's just that if the show has one solid, convincing, all-around true acting talent it's him.
- Josh Dial
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Hopefully, some of the better players on the show, like Penikett and Laurie, will end up on shows that are actually good. I could see Laurie on Caprica (though I think most of the cast is set, should the show get picked up beyond the pilot). I just hope Penikett doesn't end up on some by-the-numbers cop show--he would have been good on NCIS:LA, however.
- Josh Dial
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I can't for the life of me, see why Sarah Connor was cancelled so close to the release of Terminator: Salvation. If that wasn't a chance for free marketing, I don't know what is. At the very least they should have held off until the last possible second (August?). Not to get off track, but I also think Lena Headey was the best Sarah Connor--perfectly "rough," yet also with the right amount of sadness. I'm glad she's going to be in "A Game of Thrones," which HBO better not screw up.
- Dollhouse - season 2
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