Warner Archive Discussion Thread (The Announcements/The Films) - Page 4

I put those movies in my wishlist and will get them when a pack comes out.  Any good promotional codes I can use to get a discount?
Edited by cajunhillbilly - 10/7/09 at 9:53am

Penthouse was released on laserdisc back in the day, but it doesn't rate a DVD release.

This new list of releases is a bit shocking, with stuff like The Mortal Storm, Gabriel over the White House, etc. I thought some of these might have had a chance for a regular release. What's sadder though is that because all of these titles are Archive releases, none of them will be restored. We'll be stuck watching the 20 year old master for each of them, perhaps for the next 20 years or more.

It is disgraceful. Not the idea of the Archive per se, but the idea that these Archive titles can be released as is, without any sort of digital upgrade whatsoever, not even a new telecine. What happened to Warner's budget for restoration? Has it been slashed to zero? 

"Disgraceful that they'll release a bunch of Esther Williams slop but under the radar classics by master directos above get slapped on dvd-r like this"

But Esther obviously sells (even CostCo is selling it) while there's a hardly a market breathlessly awaiting a Marlene Dietrich western ... even if it was directed by Fritz Lang.! Your frustration at not getting the pressed standard DVDs you want, while understandable, is no reason to denigrate Ms. Williams, her films and by inference, her fans (like myself) who are overjoyed at a second volume of her films.

And await a third volume. 

Guys, I know it's difficult to keep separate because the announcement of new titles leads immediately to complaints about why certain films deserve better, etc, but Ron broke the original thread into two and this one is supposed to be only for discussion of the new announcements and films themselves. I think they want our gripes about the program and counterarguments to stay in the other thread (FEEDBACK).

You are correct.  I guess this subject is almost as hot as Health Care. 

I am looking forward to Gabriel Over the White House.  I have had the laser disc for years and enjoy this film.  Also looking forward to The Rounders and the other westerns.  I do think the one item lost in the announcement was the collection of Robert Benchley's shorts.  They were always on target and in some ways still are and I can get a chuckle or two from them.  I do wonder if the Pete Smith shorts will be in two volumes or more since there were over 150 of them.  Now that I think about it I guess there would be three volumes. 

I am hoping for more war movies from Warners.

Point taken however, I'm not buying it. No way! The idea that Esther Williams has stronger name recognition or mainstream appeal than Alan Ladd, Glenn Ford, Cary Grant, Ava Gardner, Myrna Loy, Eddie Robinson, etc... or more sustainable market appeal within the film community and among fans of classics than names like Fritz Lang, Mervyn Leroy, Marlene Dietrich, etc. B.S.

The difference is that Warners is chosing to market these discs! The others, they clearly care less about so they dump age old telecines onto DVD-R with added mastering glitches to boot. How can you say that Esther Williams is obviously selling when these other films are not even available to the retail public at all... period!

Perhaps if they were actually on store shelves and the studio devoted a minimal effort towards marketing them...

I'd wager my paycheck that they'd easily bring in equal return as any lighthearted musical fluff, and I've nothing against Esther Williams. I own the first set and would not make such a comparisson if it weren't for the studio's treatment of bonafide classics relegated to fourth-rate archive releases. The point is that the studio is not giving any of their classic catalog titles a chance simply because they don't want to spend the money to strike new transfers or clean up the films. Broadcast quality is fine for Television and companies like Alpha Video, VCI, etc. but not for new DVD releases from a major studio. In the end it's not the consumers but the films that suffer as companies continue to neglect important works of art. As someone else had raised the question, I too am curious what's become of Warners restoration budget? Is it spent entirely on Blu-Ray now as I suspect? What a shame that this new format has done nothing but hinder the viability of future catalog titles that could have otherwise once seen a retail shelf life. Due to the economic circumstances it hasn't entirely picked up with mainstream buyers yet it's appeal to film enthusiasts proves contradictory. Personally, I feel the studios have invested way too much into the newest format and lost touch witht he potential in standard dvd sales. It's really too bad.

But to say that  Esther Williams sells more than any other classic unreleased titles is just silly.

A couple more titles I found to be released in the future that are not available yet and were not on press release:
Dying Room Only (1973)
Lucky Night (1939)
Tribute to a Bad Man (1956)

Quote:
That's a bit strong -- do you have any evidence to support your contention that the Esther Williams sets are not big sellers, other than your own intuition? The fact that Warners would gamble on a retail release of Vol. 2 when they're hardly releasing anything else on pressed disc would indicate they think Vol. 2 has strong sales potential. I'm not a Williams fan, but it seems reasonable that she has enormous nostalgic appeal in a way that Fritz Lang and Mervyn LeRoy simply don't. I'm not talking about classic movie buffs here as much as regular Joes and Janes in their sixties and seventies -- the crossover audience that makes a catalog boxed set successful.

I share your frustration about the cutbacks in classic movie releases, but your post suggests that Warners is just arbitrarily deciding to release and market the Esther Williams box rather than something else. I think you should give them a little more credit. They've been at this a while, and they have sales figures that you and I lack.

As far as the other stars you mentioned (Cary Grant, Edward G. Robinson, Ava Gardner, etc.), all of their well known films have already been released on disc. There is an audience of fans who will buy anything with their favorite star's name on it, but this is a limited group. As plummeting sales have shown, most DVD buyers are satisfied with the number of catalog titles they own, and aren't looking to clutter their shelves with anything more.

I understand why people are clinging to the good ol' days of classic DVD releases, but the format is in its final years and the fact is not everything is going to get released onto a pressed disc. You will still be able to buy a download or a DVD-R, or record a film off cable, but expecting the studios to flood the market with low-priced classics against all economic reason is a bit much. One can reject the new burn-on-demand model for classic films, but you're missing out on a lot of good movies.

 I am hoping that THE CHAPMAN REPORT will be released . 

"it seems reasonable that she has enormous nostalgic appeal in a way that Fritz Lang and Mervyn LeRoy simply don't"

Exactly! We film buffs live in our own little world, often forgetting that the average Joe wouldn't know Fritz Lang from Mervyn LeRoy or RANCHO NOTORIOUS from THEY WON'T FORGET! But everybody knows Esther Williams. When you go into a store like CostCo and see Esther Williams it's because she's mainstream. You're not going to find Fellini's NIGHTS OF CABIRIA or Allan Dwan's SLIGHTLY SCARLET there.

And here's a post from over in the Esther Williams V2 thread that's relevant:


But let's get this thread back on topic now.

I guess this is an announcement of sorts as what to expect for Warner Archive pricing in the marketplace:

http://www.deepdiscount.com/DVD---Warner-Brothers-Archive-Collection_stcVVcatId476497VVviewcat.htm

It also speaks volumes re many other issues expressed in these forums.

But I never made such a statement. I was merely contesting the idea that Esther Williams has more viable market potential than star names like Cary Grant, Ava Gardner, Alan Ladd and known directors like Lang, etc. on the unfair basis that the latter has not even been made available to the buying public outside of niche retailers and the official Warner website, and at that, only available for US distribution at ridiculously inflated prices on dispensable media. I'm sure the Esther Williams sets are profitable given that there are future volumes slated for release. But who's to say these others are any less so... with the above mentioned names as selling points if marketed as such, well I'm highly dubious !

But this is exactly my contention with this ridiculous Archive program

If the majority of first-rate product from Hollywood's "golden age" has already been released and all that's left is the throwaway vehicles from stars and directors who'll simply sell to hardcore cinephiles on name recognition (which is not acurately representative but I'll agree with in a general sense) AND furthermore Mr. George Feltenstein has already put himself on record as criticizing the studios for poor marketing decisions as to past releases... how then does one justify this company pushing their second-rate product out at prices double that of the first rate output we've seen from standard retailing discs, yet in addition, ported from old video masters and on questionably mastered dvd-r media??

Criterion launched a hugely popular program called the Eclipse line for the everyman... it's the successor to Warners failed attempt at these Archives. All of these titles could have succeeded under another company's control. WHV made some very poor decisions as far as I'm concerned, in terms of their execution of this line.

Just got an email about the five new sci-fi titles.  They all look interesting and I'd love to check them out.  But for $100 + shipping?  Seriously?  $100?  That is just outrageous.

Why not take the time to create a nice 5 disc bundle before sending out the promo email?

City Beneath The Sea
Man From Atlantis
Genesis II
Planet Earth
Earth II

C'mon... $100?   Really?

Just so everyone knwos, DD now carries the Warner Archive title http://www.deepdiscount.com/DVD---Warner-Brothers-Archive-Collection_stcVVcatId476497VVviewcat.htm

"But for $100 + shipping? Seriously?"

Orders over $60 eliminate the shipping charges and with a 25% coupon or promotional code, it's $75 plus tax. No doubt still too high for your taste but .....

I hate to break the news to you Marco but outside of film buff circles, no one knows who Alan Ladd is any more.

Quote:

Woh, hold up, Thomas T.  In the same way you have critiqued Marco's contentions about the public's awareness of Alan Ladd, don't you think it's a little bit of stretch, maybe a tad presumptuous, to say, "Everybody knows Esther Williams."?  Last I checked, films such as Ladd's SHANE remain in the public consciousness, either through countless TV screenings or film school classes or, more likely, the comedy routines that have parodied the film's iconic scenes ("Come back, Shane!") over the years.  The film has showed up on every AFI "best-of" list, not to mention won an Academy Award, so it's always going to be on clip reels of the best films ever made.  You know, the kinds that play every year during the Oscar telecast.  Esther Williams' oeuvre?  Not so much...

The Esther Williams set is in Costco because they pretty much get around to carrying every Warner box set at one point or another.  I know because I've been scouring Costco's DVD shelves for years now. :)

I stand by my statements that Esther Williams is better known than either Alan Ladd or SHANE by the average Joe.

Try this experiement next time you're in CostCo, Jon. Ask the average Joe, "Do you know who Alan Ladd is?" and more likely than not you'll get blank stares. If you ask "Do you know who Esther Williams is?" even if they've never seen any of her movies, it's more likely you'll get a response of "Isn't she the one who swims?".

Only recently on JEOPARDY, three intelligent well educated contestants had no idea who Natalie Wood was!?! If these "knowledgeable" types didn't know who Wood was, why would the "average" Joe know who Alan Ladd is? Ladd's SHANE may be in the public's consciousness (though I suspect rather the film buff's consciousness than the general public's) but that doesn't mean they know who he is. KING KONG and MIRACLE ON 34TH STREET may remain in the public's consciousness too but I doubt they'd know Fay Wray and John Payne from Claude Rains and Thelma Ritter.

Even if people recognize the names of the actors, these particular films are not well known. At all. So let's say you come across someone who does know who Alan Ladd is because of Shane. What are the odds that they are aware of any of these other films of his besides Shane? Pretty low, IMO.

With Esther Williams, even if they don't know the names of the films, they know they're the ones she swims in, and that's what they want.

I consider myself fairly film savvy, though not to the degree of many people in this thread. However, to the rest of my family and most of my friends (even other film savvy friends), I blow them out of the water with my film knowledge. And even then I have heard of maybe a dozen - maybe - of the films released in the archive so far. That's some perspective right there.

Cyber Friends and Neighbors,

Please, I implore you. I beg of you. I prostrate myself before you!

Please, please, please (did I mention the word "please" yet?) take this lively discussion regarding the merits or demerits of Ms. Williams to the other thread. I'm a sensitive and simple soul, and am often given to migrane headaches around such lively and vigorous discussions. This thread is for Warner Archive film announcements and information pertaining to that subject. The Ms. Williams set is not part of the archives.

So again I offer my supplication: please!

Thank you very much.

Has anyboy received any of the latest wave of WA titles?  I am interested the Joe McDoaks shorts and how they look. 

I'm not here to argue about either Esther Williams or Alan Ladd.  However, I feel that if I asked an "average joe" (say, somebody under the age of 45) about those performers, I bet that "average joe" wouldn't have heard of either of them.  Obviously, I'm not referring to any of this forum's visitors.

I finally got around to watching Idiot's Delight tonight. It's an older tape master, I believe. There's a good bit of dirt, speckles, some scratches, and the reel change markers all in evidence. Contrast is on the low side for the first 45-50 minutes, but the grayscale looks better, more solid in the film's second hour. Sound is hissy throughout.

The disc includes the trailer.

I think you are right of it being from an older tape master, however I still have the laserdisc and this transfer is so much better than the disc.  I only wish WA would have had the fore-thought to include the second ending.  I do not feel it would have taken to much trouble to do so, anymore than adding trailers.  It was a very enjoyable film and a lot of fun to watch.

I love Idiot's Delight. It's so nice to see Norma give her best Garbo impersonation.

Let's not forget Gable singing and dancing.