Fringe - Season 2 - Page 4

A great episode and I was waiting for Olivia to spot Peter when they were in Jacksonville.  Then each time she saw him I was thinking she'd see it.  I'm glad they ended the episode with that.  The preview for the resumption in April really looked fascinating. 

I'm with you on this. When Walter brought Olivia out of her treatment I thought she would see Peter  glimmering.

The lock combination 5-20-10 that Walter mentioned he always uses but doesn't know why is the date of the Season 2 finale. So apparently all hell will break loose on that date (and in that ep). The producers also probably hope FOX does not change the timeslot when they return.

oops.

LOL  My wife and I noticed that right away!  Maybe they will fix it on the DVD/Blu set.  At least they spelled "Boston" right!

--John

At first I thought maybe it was some obscure Massachusetts town...

Maybe they drop double letters in the alternate universe.

So it would be Masachusets? And I'd be Cameron Ye?

I figure he knew but figured saving lives trumped it.  He didn't seem a bit surprised that Olivia saw the glow.

I agree about Jackson and Green.  I rolled my eyes at both f them but they both became favorites.  I didn't know Fox before Lost, so that one didn't fit for me.  I guess Foley now qualifies for sci-fi with V.  Again, I didn't previously know him and while he's doing alright, he isn't standing out like Jackson and BAG for me.

er.. Im going to go with the theory that you arent joking, but I thought the letter drop was intentional and a clue that we were in the alternate universe in the opening. That couple with the difficulties getting hold of coffee.

Greate ending

That was how I rationalized it as well. I'd hope the crew didn't simply make a silly typo and not realize it.

As soon as Walter described the "glimmer" effect, I knew that Olivia would see Peter glimmer at some point.  That was pretty well telegraphed and I'm surprised they thought that was a big enough "A-HA!" on which to pin the climax of the episode. It didn't seem worthy of a cliff-hanger  ending to me.

I was joking but I guess it would be a kind of a neat way of hinting to perceptive audience members that something was off.

I don't think they'd make a mistake like that.  I think it is exactly a subtle clue.  I guess in their universe, that's how the Hudson expedition originally wrote down what they thought they heard.  I also think if it isn't "fixed" for DVD, there will be complaints.


For me, the eventual revelation of Peter's status has been one of the main reasons I watch.  I can't imagine wanting it to end on anything else.  I don't think it was supposed to be a big shocker since Walter is not a stupid man and would know that Peter qualifies.  Like I said, I think he figured risking the secret was more important than letting hundreds die to protect it.  The only change I would have made was during the scene where he first had Olivia looking for objects in the classroom.  I was hoping he'd say, "Peter, would you mind stepping out into the hall for a moment?"  But, this is where it gets good.  I can't wait until Olivia corners Walter to have the discussion, though she's sharp enough to have it mostly figured out.

I don't think we were supposed to be surprised by Olivia's discovering Peter's status.  We've known Peter was from the other side for a long time, it was clear the revelation was coming soon  (the scene with Astrid was a big clue, the one a few episodes back with Teresa Russell was another) and it was obvious for most of this episode the Olivia was going to see the proof.  The "Ah-HA!" moment was Olivia's not ours.  And it ratcheted up her conflicts.  She and Peter have been moving towards expressing their feelings for one another, never more so than in this episode.  Then she learns the details of Walter's experiments on her, and she begins to feel anger towards him, which complicates the situation with Peter.  And finally she discovers that Peter is from the other side - and being a smart FBI agent it won't take her long to realize what that means. 

From the standpoint of Olivia's character development (as opposed to our understanding of the plot) that is a huge Ah-HA moment.  

Regards

Joe

If that's the case, would this be the first time we've seen the alternate universe without the benefit of a "guide" like Olivia?

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Glad I DVR'ed this episode.  I am going to rewatch it and see if the alternate universe angle (and "Manhatan") makes sense to me.

--John

I thought about that, too.  But I think Walter understood that if the experiment worked at all, Olivia was going to see Peter at some point, and learn the truth.  Maybe he thought he'd have a better chance of keeping her from telling Peter if it all happened at once, while she was still absorbing the fact of her ability and he was in the room. 

Regards,

Joe

Great stuff.  Olivia's character has really become quite interesting.  Her anger and disgust with Walter are justified...but, up to now she's always been very maternal/protective of him.  The fact that she now knows he pulled Peter across should make her even more conflicted.

Just wait until she figures out that Walter's action is to blame for all this crap.

And, now in her role as 'savior of our side' she is going to eventually have to make the decision over what to do about Peter.  It's obvious that his presence in our reality is what has caused the imbalance that leads to the war (how could Walter not know this when he brought Peter?  Wouldn't he have tried SOMETHING to appease the balance?).  So, will she have to kill him?  Send him back?  And, even if she did would that change anything?  The rift has already been caused.  I'm not sure it can be repaired.  All very cool questions and blocks for the creators to build upon.

I'm not so sure how all this works, and how it will play out.  "Our" Peter was dead - so weren't the two universes already out of balance?  Does each universe have to have copies of the same individuals, or is there some kind of over-all balance that has to be kept?  Would the "other" Peter (the one from the Other Side, who is now in our universe) have died if Walter hadn't brought him across?  And what about the "other" Walter? Is he still alive?  (Until the conclusion of the last episode, I wasn't entirely sure that Walter was "our" Walter.  I thought that instead of going to the Other Side and stealing a replacement for Peter, the Walter from over there might have crossed into our world to raise the Peter who had survived.  I didn't think it likely, but I considered it as a possible twist.) 

Many questions.  Personally I think that Walter and Bell had created an imbalance with their earliest teleportation experiments, before they realized they were swapping matter with the other universe.  Their actions may have alerted those on the Other Side to the existence of our world, and led to their desire to open a doorway of their own.  (A variation on the hoary old "Dying space civilization that is running out of air/water/some rare mineral/solar energy comes to conquer Earth" cliche.) 

Can't wait until April.

Regards,

Joe

I don't think people have to be alive in all realities for their to be balance.  That would be almost impossible.  I figure Peter's body being buried here and his other being here is enough to cause an imbalance.  Maybe it could have been avoided if the body had been taken to the other side (unless it was and I'm forgetting).

Unfortunately, unless I've heard wrong, the ratings haven't been great.  We probably won't see all of this explored or get all the answers.

The ratings have actually been decent for a non-flagship FOX show (American Idol, 24, et cetera).  It's running on par with Lie to Me, at around 2.6-3.0 in the key demo (18-49).  It's actually had its best ratings this season (other than the pilot), so that's a plus, too.  However, the real question is if there is room for both Lie to Me and Fringe (you can possibly add Human Target into the mix), of if one *must* go, to make room for a new experiment next season.

My guess is it will be based on how the "brass" views the upcoming show(s), and if they think it's worth canning one or more of those shows.  My opinion?  I think FOX should cut their losses from Dollhouse, and stick to a few non-flag ship shows that are at least making *some* revenue, like Fringe.  At least Fringe has some extra cash coming in from product placement for Windows.

The balance question would have been addressed by another body of same mass being taken over to the other side.  Whether Walter had some control of the process so he could determine what went over to the other side is yet to be revealed.  At the least he could have taken the body of dead Peter over to the other side when he went to kidnap the alternate Peter.  Kind of a Pet Semetary vibe if he did so.

The part that really interests me is what about the alternate Walter?  Is he alive or dead?  If he is alive why didn't he come after his Peter?  If he is dead, did Walter Prime have anything to do with it?

Some great stuff coming up.

I think another thing that Fox would look at is that it's on an incredibly tough night.

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That's assuming the concept of "balance" is crudely physical.  It may not be.  Walter may think so, but he doesn't know everything.


The complicating factor is that only one of those three shows (Lie to Me) is a Fox production.  The other two come from Warner Bros. All Fox makes on a show like Fringe, which is costly, is advertising revenue - less the license fee they pay Warners.  Depending on how much of the production cost WB is willing to absorb (to be made up by foreign sales, DVDs and eventual syndication) Fringe could cost more, less or the same per hour as a show like Lie to Me or Human Target.  (All three shows have pretty serious SFX budgets.)  

At a guess I'd say Lie to Me is probably the cheapest over-all.  The Fox network pays the Fox studio a license fee for the show, same as they do Warners with the other shows.  The Fox studio makes up the difference between the fee and the actual cost, and probably loses money on each episode - same as WB with the other shows.  But since Fox is a much more tightly-integrated company than Warner Bros, this is really a matter of moving money from one pocket to another.  Ultimately it is 20th Century Fox (or NewsCorp) that is absorbing all the costs - and NewsCorp that is taking in all the revenue - from advertising, DVD sales, foreign sales, merchandise, web and syndication.  Since Fox as an entity gets all the money from Lie to Me, they can afford to keep it on the air even if the ratings are slightly soft. 

With Fringe they can also do that - provided their costs are kept down.  If WB accepts a reasonable license fee to keep the show on the air (and get enough episodes to in the can to make it viable in syndication) Fox is in good shape with the show with the current ratings.  If not, not. 

Regards,

Joe

Actually I had read somewhere that FOX receives a portion of the revenue from DVD/BD sales and the like (I specifically remember reading about the comic revenue for Fringe) for both Fringe and Human Target.  Obviously the exact details of studio deals aren't knowing, but I'm sure Joe's points are certainly important in the determination of what stays and what goes.

Also, there's the wages of the cast and crew, and the ability to effectively cut those costs by reducing the number of major players (Fringe has already done that to an extent).  Lie to Me could certainly lose at least one team member--do we really need Mekhi Phifer on the show?  I doubt anyone is tuning in for him, and his character is the weakest link IMO.  Human Target certainly has a high budget, and I don't see a way to reduce the cast at all, save for avoiding big guest stars week-after-week.

Ultimately it's anyone's guess, really, as these past few years have been filled with surprise cancellations and renewals.  If Fringe had to go--and I hope it doesn't--I would consider following the story in comic form, should it continue there.

Here's a nice photo-shoot for the Anna Torv fans (slightly NSFW)

http://www.esquire.com/women/women-we-love/anna-torv-nude-0310#img

These Esquire pictures are actually pretty good--artsy without being slutty.

That's surprising, since it is not only an exception to what used to be standard industry practice, it would also require Warner Bros. to work and play well with others - which in these matters they are notorious for NOT doing so.  WB would generally prefer to see a project die than share the revenue - or at least that was their attitude a few years ago.  (I'm really surprised about the comic book, which I assume was released through WB's comic book arm, DC.)   Maybe things are getting so bad in the TV biz that everybody is sharing revenue these days.  (It is funny how many shows on each network are still produced by rival networks.  The whole point of studios getting into the network biz - and later networks getting into the studio bid - was to marry content and delivery, much like the old studio system where the same company owned the production facilities and the theaters.  But we still see Fox shows on ABC, NBC/Universal shows on CBS and WB shows everywhere.)

Regards,

Joe

The oddness of the whole comic thing is what made me take specific notice of it.  I think it's safe to say the entire TV industry is in a serious state of disrepair.  Who knows what lengths the studios/powers-that-be are going to to make profit?

Technically, it was Wildstorm but they're owned by DC now.